GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[oceanblueeyes]

"Friday May 9: Sills says autopsy results show the cause of death is “craniocerebral trauma” – traumatic injury to the skull that encloses the brain and its nerves."

If they still don't have Mr. Dermond's head, how can they absolutely show the cause of death is craniocerebral trauma? :waitasec: :dunno:

I think in part because they found no other injuries on his torso. So therefore he had to die from trauma to the head.

But I did see a post by one of our nurses who said they could tell by the blood vessels in the part of the neck that was left. OM gosh that sounds awful.

But it was something like that.

IMO

 

[tomkat]

Good points, IMO

But they DID leave by lakeway, we presume since she was found in the water miles away, so maybe cleaned up at dock, seems risky tho so maybe further out after leaving by water, easy to jump in the lake and rinse off, buckets for cleaning out boat and if nighttime, they could easily wash boat out MORE at boat ramp or car wash or back to wherever they came

Respectfully snipped by me



First and foremost: :welcome6:

I have no link that Mr. D was killed elsewhre and the moved into the garage. From Sheriff Sills first presser, he infered the body was moved only a few feet. My impression was Mr. D's body was right outside the garage and then moved only a few feet into the garage. The conclusion was that Mr. D was beheaded post-mortem because of the lack of blood splatter that would occur from beheading a person whose heart was still beating. Sheriff Sills did indicate that there was some blood. From this I infer that the perp killed Mr. D right outside the garage with a good whack on the back of the head - crowbar, slamming his head against pavers, etc. The perp then waited until Mr. D was most certainly dead - no pulse, etc. Mr. D was then moved into the garage where he could be beheaded with no chances of being seen and where tools would be readily accessible to complete the deed. I believe the perp knew he had time. If this was planned to the T, they might have known about the Kentucky Derby party and had all day Friday and Saturday. I don't think when the head was removed it was newly beheaded, but who knows. Perhaps the suspect brought a plastic bag or trash bag with which to carry the head. Where did the perp clean up at? Outside at a faucet? Rinsing off in the lake - highly doubt since that would risk being seen by a fisherman or a number of people.

All of this could have been performed while Mrs. Dermond was in the house working her crossword puzzle and none the wiser. It wasn't until Mrs. Dermond realized that Mr. D was late returning from his morning walk that she began to look for him. All the while the perp was watching and waiting for the appropriate time to kill her by blunt force trauma to the head.

Again, all just speculation and opinion and means absolutely nada, just my :twocents:

 

[epiphany]

I don't know if I suffer from OCD myself.....all I know I am a neat freak and must have everything neat and organized.

But in a weird way I do think it does go together especially if they found a way to decapitate Russ's head the cleanest most efficient way possible and if the rumor is correct that it was a very clean cut.

IMO

There is no correlation between OCD and homicidal behavior.

OCD versus Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD):

As education and public awareness about OCD have grown, so has the use of the term “OCD” as a description of some kinds of behaviors that are not OCD.

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) is sometimes mistaken for OCD. While the names are confusingly similar, the disorders are quite different. OCPD is a personality disorder, whereas OCD is not.

http://www.ocdeducationstation.org/ocd-facts/what-ocd-isnt/

...But Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is not the same as Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD). In fact, despite the similarity of the two terms, the two conditions are actually quite different. They are essentially the opposite of each other.

An individual with OCD has very specific thoughts which are experienced as unwanted, intrusive, and anxiety provoking. The clinical term for these types of thoughts is that they are ego-dystonic, which simply means that the thoughts are inconsistent with the individual’s values, beliefs and character..They feel horrible that that they are experiencing these unwanted thoughts, and go to great lengths in an effort to get these thoughts out of their mind. They never act on these thoughts.

Conversely, an individual with OCPD has thoughts which they experience as wanted, normal, and not at all anxiety provoking. The clinical term for these thoughts is ego-syntonic, which simply means that the thoughts in OCPD are consistent with the individual’s values, beliefs and character. For example, some individuals with OCPD might have the thought that their clothes should be folded a very specific way or that their yard should always be 100% free of leaves. The individual with OCPD experiences these thoughts as completely normal and reasonable, and expects others to comply with their desire that certain behaviors be done in a very precise and specific manner. They do not feel bad about these thoughts, and make no effort to get these thoughts out of their mind.

http://www.ocdla.com/blog/ocd-law-2-816

 

[JLSChook]

I will never understand why people (including so-called "expert profilers") give criminals such as these more credit than they deserve. The only reason LE or others say that evasive killers are "intelligent, crafty, smart, cunning", etc...is because they haven't been captured yet and it would make them look bad otherwise.

Otis Toole evaded LE for years and years after murdering God knows how many people, including Adam Walsh. Otis Toole's IQ was 75.

It doesn't take someone *brilliant* to commit a heinous crime such as this and many others. It's not difficult to commit a barbaric act and go undetected for weeks, months, years or sometimes forever.

As a side note: Not everyone that commits unspeakable acts has to be diagnosed with some mental disorder. Some people are just born evil. Period.

 

[Rhyolite]

Old grudge/pending retribution = head taken to prove identity. Wifie = collateral damage.

Good theory. You get 59 bonus points. Any thoughts as to the subject of the grudge? The head thing is still a bit iffy.

 

[Foxfire]

Now I know I need more caffeine this morning.

At first glance I though it was Douglas who was saying the suspect is mentally ill. I was thinking "what? really?":floorlaugh:

But then I read the entire article.

I do not agree with the Atlanta psychiatrist on this one and definitely agree with Mr. Douglas.

This is just not the work of a mentally deranged killer. It is way too neat and organized where it takes too much clear cognitive thinking to accomplish it all.

In fact imo it shows this person is extremely intelligent and may even suffer from OCD and if ever caught their home will also be very neat and orderly. They certainly know right from wrong and are trying their best not to get caught.

He is not mentally ill. He is smart and crafty and has been able to keep the police at bay for over two weeks now and they really know nothing about him in all this time.

I do agree with you....... this killer lives right in the middle of where all of this is happening.

IMO

Ocean, psychopaths are very creative, calculating, deflective, and manipulative. Yet, not all psychopaths are evil...I'm not so sure that investigators do not know anything about him/them. Imo, there is a lot of hold back info and evidence in the Dermond's abduction/murder investigation that the public simply isn't privy too. The Devil/s will be in these hold back details.. JMO

OCD! I have been thinking that but, I was afraid to say ocd and decapitated about the same person.
They don't really go together but, in this case maybe they do.
Moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Do you think they got paranoid did some more meth, started tweaking and came back to clean up? Or they left someone behind to clean while they took SD to the lake.
Not really familiar with Molly. Is that like MDMA, xanax or a combination of both?

Honestly I don't even think people who buy Molly really know what's in it.
A girl in my neighborhood got permanent heart damage from it. I think in her valves. She was really sweet met the wrong older boy and pfftt.
Sad.
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

MDMA; ECSTASY or MOLLY

http://teens.drugabuse.gov/drug-facts/mdma-ecstasy-or-molly

You know I admire and respect you highly and all you have consistently done for missing victims but on this I just have a different take.

But the act of the abduction/kidnapping itself by the perps rarely leaves evidence behind no matter who is doing the kidnapping. So many cases are where the victim is gone without a trace of evidence left behind.

While the abduction of Holly left no evidence behind I would guess that the actual crime scene was a house of horrors. May be why they arrested them all once they searched Adams and Autry's properties. At the actual murder site I would think the murder itself was very disorganized.

With this killer I think everywhere he went or took them he made sure no evidence was left behind tying him to the crimes. I even think he may have made sure he murdered them where he knew evidence of the murders wouldn't be found.

It seems that kidnapping a victim is rather easy unfortunately but where the actual murder occurs tends to be sloppy when its meth heads or drug addicts and they will leave a lot of evidence behind.

JMO though and nothing more than that.

I still wub you though and do understand what you are saying. I just don't feel it in this case but I sure have agreed with you on many cases and thought you had them pegged right.

This one just feels different to me for some reason.

Imo, we are looking at someone who is educated, intelligent, and fits in well within the community.

Imo, both John Douglas, and the Atlanta Psychiatrist may be correct..

A Close Encounter With A Killer Mind
By Tyrra B Meserve
Greene Publishing, Inc.

Since the beginning of time, within every culture, in every society, there have been those who are incapable of adapting and blending within the boundaries of their communal environment. Driven by a force that is incomprehensible to the peers upon which they prey, they feed on the terror and panic their crimes leave in the heart of the community.

Unable to control their carnal desires for more than just brief moments, they reside in the dark recesses of the mind, opportunistically seizing victims to compensate for shortcomings they themselves are unable to overcome. Behind false smiles, it is truly then that the eyes become the window to the soul, or in some cases, the lack thereof.

In most instances, the predators acts alone, extracting pleasure from the anonymity that he presents. However, in rare cases, these predators find in each other a kindred mind, linking up to work together, proving the old adage of water seeking its own level, even for heinous reasons.

Whether the union is long-term, or short-lived, these killing partners present a unique problem for law enforcement officers trying to solve their horrific crimes.

<sniped read more>
SPOTLIGHT CASE *Arrest* Holly Bobo investigation- TBI press conference 5 March 2014 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There is no correlation between OCD and homicidal behavior.

OCD versus Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD):

As education and public awareness about OCD have grown, so has the use of the term “OCD” as a description of some kinds of behaviors that are not OCD.

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) is sometimes mistaken for OCD. While the names are confusingly similar, the disorders are quite different. OCPD is a personality disorder, whereas OCD is not.

http://www.ocdeducationstation.org/ocd-facts/what-ocd-isnt/

...But Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is not the same as Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD). In fact, despite the similarity of the two terms, the two conditions are actually quite different. They are essentially the opposite of each other.

An individual with OCD has very specific thoughts which are experienced as unwanted, intrusive, and anxiety provoking. The clinical term for these types of thoughts is that they are ego-dystonic, which simply means that the thoughts are inconsistent with the individual’s values, beliefs and character..They feel horrible that that they are experiencing these unwanted thoughts, and go to great lengths in an effort to get these thoughts out of their mind. They never act on these thoughts.

Conversely, an individual with OCPD has thoughts which they experience as wanted, normal, and not at all anxiety provoking. The clinical term for these thoughts is ego-syntonic, which simply means that the thoughts in OCPD are consistent with the individual’s values, beliefs and character. For example, some individuals with OCPD might have the thought that their clothes should be folded a very specific way or that their yard should always be 100% free of leaves. The individual with OCPD experiences these thoughts as completely normal and reasonable, and expects others to comply with their desire that certain behaviors be done in a very precise and specific manner. They do not feel bad about these thoughts, and make no effort to get these thoughts out of their mind.

http://www.ocdla.com/blog/ocd-law-2-816

Thanks for the info. I really know nothing about either.

It certainly gives me no anxiety because I like things neat and organized. Even if something is out of place it doesn't make me go into a hissy fit.

I don't ever criticize other for how they do things or expect others do to as I do.

I just think it makes my household chores much easier to accomplish if I don't let it get in disarray to begin with.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I will never understand why people (including so-called "expert profilers") give criminals such as these more credit than they deserve. The only reason LE or others say that evasive killers are "intelligent, crafty, smart, cunning", etc...is because they haven't been captured yet and it would make them look bad otherwise.

Otis Toole evaded LE for years and years after murdering God knows how many people, including Adam Walsh. Otis Toole's IQ was 75.

It doesn't take someone *brilliant* to commit a heinous crime such as this and many others. It's not difficult to commit a barbaric act and go undetected for weeks, months, years or sometimes forever.

As a side note: Not everyone that commits unspeakable acts has to be diagnosed with some mental disorder. Some people are just born evil. Period.

It usually does take a long time to catch what I call a nomadic killer. Its very hard to catch someone who has no familiar attachment to the victims. That is why it seems to take many years to finally arrest serial killers. More cases are solved much quicker when there is a link between the victim and the perpetrator. When the killer has no attachment to the victims it is like trying to look for the killer in a haystack and not even knowing which haystack to start looking in. They use their unfamiliarity to their victims as a tool thinking LE will not be able to link them and often they don't for many many years and sometimes the murders are never solved.

So in that respect I don't think Toole's IQ had anything to do with it.

Sheriff Sills has never said he thinks that the murderer is smart and crafty. That has been tossed around by posters who feel that he is..including myself. But I do believe that many killers are like Douglas has portrayed and were found to be above average intelligence. Not all but a lot of them were.

IMO

 

[Nana46]

I wonder if we had a poll at the beginning of the thread to see what others might be thinking as to COD, type of criminal etc. Might be interesting rather than scrolling and reading each post....just wondering.

 

[epiphany]

Thanks for the info. I really know nothing about either.

It certainly gives me no anxiety because I like things neat and organized. Even if something is out of place it doesn't make me go into a hissy fit.

I don't ever criticize other for how they do things or expect others do to as I do.

I just think it makes my household chores much easier to accomplish if I don't let it get in disarray to begin with.

IMO

Hi OceanBE :loveyou:

It was a heinous act to murder this elderly couple not to mention the decapitation of this older gentleman, etc.

Because of the barbaric nature of the act of decapitation, a prescription drug angle came to mind, though I don't know what if any prescriptions or prescribed bottles of medications might be in the home...but I've dismissed that possibility because the murderer/s is much too organized, IMO.

Even if this were his/their first murders, bottom line is the perp/s is a psychopath. Evil, wicked and cannot be fixed, cured, rehabilitated, etc. The perp/s won't be suffering from anything in this case, IMO.

 

[tomkat]

looked at tax records, LLC owns 149
Dermond Russel J, last name first owns 143
Scott the vacant lott
Maples the house by lott

also looked at previous owners, didnt' see another dermond
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/...2&layers=parcels+streetnum+roads+parcel_sales

Ok! I am officially creeped out!
I did a reverse address search just see the age of the neighbors that used to live there at 143. The home is HUGE 6000 + 900 extra sq feet.
Was this home used as a vacation/ rental home?
I heard no one lives there.

Major coincidence with that home IMO.
AND I DO MEAN COINCIDENCE.
The man who is listed at the address ***his first name is the same as Shirley and Russell's last name. DERMOND.
Small world?
OR IS IT POSSIBLE THIS WAS INDEED A CASE OF MISTAKEN IDENTITY AND THE WRONG HOUSE /PEOPLE WERE TARGETED?
all caps for emphasis I don't mean to yell.

moo
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[tomkat]

I hadn't read this before:

"Sills said the investigation has not focused on the Dermonds&#8217; children as much as the couple. But, he added, &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to tell you we won&#8217;t&#8221; focus on them later."

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/news/crime/article_e0e23f30-dd0a-11e3-adbe-001a4bcf887a.html

FWIW, Reading articles and listening to the video sometimes gives a very different opinion or explanation I have just recently found, not referring to this one btw

Anyway, that is strange to me, don't in most cases, LE looks first OR just as much at the family as they do anyone else even if they dont' initially suspect them?

If LE didnt' focus on the family as much as the public IN THE BEGINNING, would he possibly have missed MANY clues early on? I'm not saying the familly did it, just surprised at that comment. Just becuase they are out of state and SAY they are upset or that they think it's a cult, doesn't mean they aren't involved

ANYWAY< not pointing the finger at them just an observation

But we really DON"T know who or who is NOT involved or HOW

tho we MAY have clues as to what kind of perp that did the ACTUAL killings we do not yet know who may be behind this heinous crime

JMO

 

[tomkat]

SO WHAT EXACTLY DO WE THINK

ELSWHERE means? does that mean? In another county, in another house, in another yard, or simply outside in his own yard and moved inside (inside meaning the garage here)

I mean does it necessarily mean far away?

Respectfully snipped by me



First and foremost: :welcome6:

I have no link that Mr. D was killed elsewhre and the moved into the garage. From Sheriff Sills first presser, he infered the body was moved only a few feet. My impression was Mr. D's body was right outside the garage and then moved only a few feet into the garage. The conclusion was that Mr. D was beheaded post-mortem because of the lack of blood splatter that would occur from beheading a person whose heart was still beating. Sheriff Sills did indicate that there was some blood. From this I infer that the perp killed Mr. D right outside the garage with a good whack on the back of the head - crowbar, slamming his head against pavers, etc. The perp then waited until Mr. D was most certainly dead - no pulse, etc. Mr. D was then moved into the garage where he could be beheaded with no chances of being seen and where tools would be readily accessible to complete the deed. I believe the perp knew he had time. If this was planned to the T, they might have known about the Kentucky Derby party and had all day Friday and Saturday. I don't think when the head was removed it was newly beheaded, but who knows. Perhaps the suspect brought a plastic bag or trash bag with which to carry the head. Where did the perp clean up at? Outside at a faucet? Rinsing off in the lake - highly doubt since that would risk being seen by a fisherman or a number of people.

All of this could have been performed while Mrs. Dermond was in the house working her crossword puzzle and none the wiser. It wasn't until Mrs. Dermond realized that Mr. D was late returning from his morning walk that she began to look for him. All the while the perp was watching and waiting for the appropriate time to kill her by blunt force trauma to the head.

Again, all just speculation and opinion and means absolutely nada, just my :twocents:

 

[Xara]

looked at tax records, LLC owns 149
Dermond Russel J, last name first owns 143
Scott the vacant lott
Maples the house by lott

also looked at previous owners, didnt' see another dermond
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/...2&layers=parcels+streetnum+roads+parcel_sales[/q

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi OceanBE :loveyou:

It was a heinous act to murder this elderly couple not to mention the decapitation of this older gentleman, etc.

Because of the barbaric nature of the act of decapitation, a prescription drug angle came to mind, though I don't know what if any prescriptions or prescribed bottles of medications might be in the home...but I've dismissed that possibility because the murderer/s is much too organized, IMO.

Even if this were his/their first murders, bottom line is the perp/s is a psychopath. Evil, wicked and cannot be fixed, cured, rehabilitated, etc. The perp/s won't be suffering from anything in this case, IMO.

Nice to 'see' you epiphany!

I totally agree. He carried this out without one hesitation and without one ounce of remorse. He is what he has really always been deep down inside. He saw this nothing more than a mission that must be carried out to completion already designed in his own evil mind probably way before the crimes were done.

The scary thing about evil it can be shrouded in secrecy and masked in normalcy.

I truly believe if this case is ever solved it will shock the entire core of the community who lives there.

Imo, he has been among them all for sometime now. The person they thought they knew really doesn't exist.

IMO

 

[tomkat]

earlier article, just reiterating FBI thoughts

interesting

"If it is a serial killer, he's operating in such a way ... he's been in that community for a while."

"I'd definitely be interviewing anybody on the lake for any single males, probably white males they've seen in kayaks or canoes," Summers said.

Summers said investigators are also likely looking at a connection to organized crime.

"This is something very common with drug cartels, which is prominent in Atlanta area. Beheadings are absolutely the No. 1 way you send a message," Summers said.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/former-investigator-sheds-light-case-beheaded-man-/nfsSj/

My thinking is that they hire the little people to do the job and then frame them or are already framed

JMO

 

[Vedder]

I will never understand why people (including so-called "expert profilers") give criminals such as these more credit than they deserve. The only reason LE or others say that evasive killers are "intelligent, crafty, smart, cunning", etc...is because they haven't been captured yet and it would make them look bad otherwise.

Otis Toole evaded LE for years and years after murdering God knows how many people, including Adam Walsh. Otis Toole's IQ was 75.

It doesn't take someone *brilliant* to commit a heinous crime such as this and many others. It's not difficult to commit a barbaric act and go undetected for weeks, months, years or sometimes forever.

As a side note: Not everyone that commits unspeakable acts has to be diagnosed with some mental disorder. Some people are just born evil. Period.

Makes me think of BTK. IMO, Dennis Rader is as dumb as a bag of rocks and how he stayed free for so many years blows my mind.
MOO

 

[tomkat]

Dermond is the first name of 147

Isn't that Russell J Dermond, last name listed first?

 

[momrids6]

looked at tax records, LLC owns 149
Dermond Russel J, last name first owns 143
Scott the vacant lott
Maples the house by lott

also looked at previous owners, didnt' see another dermond
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/...2&layers=parcels+streetnum+roads+parcel_sales

The Dermond's own 147....Maples 143. According to tax card, Dermond's never owned 143 ( I think this is simply a typo by TK- usually, it's me! )

http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/...2&layers=parcels+streetnum+roads+parcel_sales

 

[oceanblueeyes]

earlier article, just reiterating FBI thoughts

interesting

"If it is a serial killer, he's operating in such a way ... he's been in that community for a while."

"I'd definitely be interviewing anybody on the lake for any single males, probably white males they've seen in kayaks or canoes," Summers said.

Summers said investigators are also likely looking at a connection to organized crime.

"This is something very common with drug cartels, which is prominent in Atlanta area. Beheadings are absolutely the No. 1 way you send a message," Summers said.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/former-investigator-sheds-light-case-beheaded-man-/nfsSj/

My thinking is that they hire the little people to do the job and then frame them or are already framed

JMO

The only part I agree with him on is 'he has been in that community for quite awhile.'

Imo, the killer knew the decapitation would become a distraction with everyone thinking immediately it had to be done by the mafia or drug cartel.

IMO