GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[Canaille]

That is what I have said all along. Family involvement doesn't make a lick of sense and these people aren't stupid by any means.

It is commonly known that the lack of a body and a person only classified as missing slows the estate down by many years. By the time it was finally finalized there was a good chance that both of them would have passed away from natural causes by then since they were already close to 90.

I truly think they were a very close loving family which makes it all the more tragic that the children have lost both of their parents at the same time due to crossing paths with a monster.

JMO

BBM

I have been wanting to ask, what makes you believe they were a very close loving family, other than it was stated that SD talked about her daughter often at bridge and that the daughter and grandchildren were there for Easter?

Just curious.

 

[Backwoods]

Thanks Wildebeest. I think the same motive as Stephen McDaniel's in the Lauren Giddings case....to commit the perfect murder. McDaniel nearly pulled off the perfect murder and he wanted to outsmart McDaniel. That case was widely covered by msm in GA even as recently as May 3rd. There was a series of articles in the Macon newspaper for days after his guilty plea (22Apr2014) detailing the lurid details of his crime and how he nearly walked. http://www.macon.com/lauren-giddings/

I believe the perp is someone with a sense of entitlement, who is not accepted by peers and so a loner with a lot to prove, if even only to himself.

I should add, a resident of GW who selected the Dermonds because of their age (little resistance), regular habits and isolated location. Knowing that anyone likely to call or visit would be at the Derby party provided the perfect time. As for the reports the perp wanted something the Dermonds didn't have or couldn't get, could be part of the plan or as some have theorized a collectible. Possibly something he knew they had, but didn't know they kept in a safety deposit box at the bank, which was closed on Saturday. But something he wanted as a souvenir of the killings, but not for it's monetary value.

I don't know that I agree that the Dermonds' murders were likely any kind of "copycat" or attempt to outdo Stephen McDaniel's crime -- but I WILL say that it was downright eerie how almost the second coverage of Lauren's murder/Stephen's plea wound down -- bang! The Dermond murder was there to "fill the space" in MSM. It really was odd.

On another note: Saturday -- or, at least, roughly, "a weekend". Why?

It seems to me that, for a lot of the theories we've pondered anyhow, doing this on a weekend makes little sense. Banking institutions certainly less accessible -- unless maybe the plan was an ATM thing and they wanted as few actual witnesses around as possible.... Seems lake activity would be higher on a weekend -- or did they want that extra actitivty as some kind of cover?

If it was a secret or information the perp feared the Dermonds might be about to share with authorities of some kind, perhaps he/they just didn't have a choice; it couldn't wait.

Anybody or everybody -- why the weekend timing? Any particular significance, y'all think?

 

[MotherOcean]

Anybody or everybody -- why the weekend timing? Any particular significance, y'all think?

My theory (well, my favorite one) from the beginning has been that the perp. is a part-time resident of the lake area. There are many part-timers who work in Atlanta, Augusta, or elsewhere during the week and only come to the lake on week-ends or holidays. Or it could be that the perp.(s) have a 9-5 job closer to GW and committing the crime on the week-end allowed them to not miss any work. I think he (or she/they) could have been gone from the area before Mr. Dermond's body was found on Tuesday. Probably gone by Monday morning. Another idea is that the perp. may have been on a spring break type vacation (maybe a college student) and was leaving the lake area at the end of the week, perhaps Sunday afternoon. I believe the perp. is a long-term but part-time resident of the lake area.

 

[Canaille]

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, Montjoy, I consider the Dermond abduction/murders/decapitation as retribution/punishment by the Nawaubian Cult a very plausible theory.

Retributive justice, is a theory of justice that considers proportionate punishment an acceptable response to crime. The NC Cult members feel strongly that their pedophile Prophet; Dwight 'Malachi' York, was Railroaded; wrongly accused, convicted, and sentenced to 135 years in Federal Super Max, and Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is the white devil catalyst for the perceived conspiracy... The NC has continuously filed frivolous and groundless lawsuits and made death threats against Sheriff Sills, as well as his family for a decade or more.

All federal appeals have been exhausted for DY, and his followers have even attempted a failed ruse of forging official prison release papers for their leader.

The NC has Motive, Means, and Opportunity, imo..
The assassination of the Dermonds were committed by well trained malignant sadistic psychopaths. Psychopaths are very calculating, creative, manipulative, and deflective. Due to these traits, psychopaths often speak in riddles, imo...

RE: Why hasn't the NC claimed responsibility?
* The day isn't over yet....

* KD said that his parents murders were cult related. Imo, KD has much more info concerning the NC, to come to this conclusion...

* If an assassination or attempt had been made on Sheriff Sills, LE/Investigators would have zoned in on NC, due to the obvious, combined with the prior assassination of the NY liaison official in 1998..

* The well planned and executed abduction/murders/decapitation of the Dermands wasn't a taunt, but a horrific riddle laden crime whose meaning would only be known by the person of its intent; Sheriff Howard Sills, the Putnam County Justice system, and many in the community..

* The decapitation of RD was described by SS as being done by someone experienced in cutting the heads off of deer or other large animals. The NC property was zoned for agriculture/hunting preserve, and was 4/5 surrounded by the Oconee National Forest. Imo, due to food costs, the NC likely maintained a garden, raised, and butchered their own meats. Five hundred NC members are a lot of mouth$ to feed..

* The NC jailers(former Macon, GA Police officers) recruited inmates at the Clark County(Athens)correctional facility. Why?

* The FBI is assisting in the Dermond Investigation, as in the Nawaubian Investigation..

* The GBI has not been requested by SS to assist in the Dermond Investigation due to their Investigative conclusions in the NC investigation..

'For those who believe no proof is necessary and for those who disbelieve, no proof is possible'... Stuart Chase..

* Dwight "Malachi" York; Ungodly Predator
Dwight "Malachi" York: Ungodly Predator - YouTube

If the NC is responsible for these murders, what might be the chance that they were responsible for Pastor Carol Daniels murder in Oklahoma? Isn't SS looking into something in OK? Did the NC have any connections in OK?

 

[mck16]

If the NC is responsible for these murders, what might be the chance that they were responsible for Pastor Carol Daniels murder in Oklahoma? Isn't SS looking into something in OK? Did the NC have any connections in OK?

How many times, how many cases have the cults been involved in murders of innocent/random people? I don't mean people who have been involved in cults in the past, but who are actively cult members? ty

 

[Montjoy]

It's not even clear that the Nuwaubians have ever been convicted of any murder...so it seems totally implausible that they would start now, when their numbers have dwindled considerably, and do so as some sort of act of retaliation against a sheriff who had no connection whatsoever to the victims.

 

[Backwoods]

O/T - Since this thread is viewed by so many, and especially so many from Georgia or with Georgia connections, I hope it will be OK, at this juncture when not too much visible (to us) is happening in the Dermonds' case, to appeal to WS posters and guests -- especially (though not only) those with Georgia connections, to take a moment to visit the WS Missing But Not Forgotten thread for Carlene Tengelsen.

Her thread is here: GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



Today, June 21, marks 42 years since Carlene, 16 and recently having gotten her driver's license, went for her first solo drive in the family station wagon. She visited what was then Westgate Shopping Center in her family's town of Macon, GA, and was to pick her younger sister up from a camp in town a short time later. But she never arrived.

The car was found near Westgate, but Carlene was never seen nor heard from by her loving family again. Her case remains unsolved.

My hope is that, somehow, someone will visit her thread on this sad anniversary and take away something to share, to ponder, to talk about that will, by some avenue, lead to a clue or information that will solve the long-standing mystery of what happened to Carlene that long-ago summer day.

 

[mck16]

O/T - Since this thread is viewed by so many, and especially so many from Georgia or with Georgia connections, I hope it will be OK, at this juncture when not too much visible (to us) is happening in the Dermonds' case, to appeal to WS posters and guests -- especially (though not only) those with Georgia connections, to take a moment to visit the WS Missing But Not Forgotten thread for Carlene Tengelsen.

Her thread is here: GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



Today, June 21, marks 42 years since Carlene, 16 and recently having gotten her driver's license, went for her first solo drive in the family station wagon. She visited what was then Westgate Shopping Center in her family's town of Macon, GA, and was to pick her younger sister up from a camp in town a short time later. But she never arrived.

The car was found near Westgate, but Carlene was never seen nor heard from by her loving family again. Her case remains unsolved.

My hope is that, somehow, someone will visit her thread on this sad anniversary and take away something to share, to ponder, to talk about that will, by some avenue, lead to a clue or information that will solve the long-standing mystery of what happened to Carlene that long-ago summer day.

While I am sorry for this families loss, I don't know how anyone could help with something that happened 42 years ago. Maybe a miracle. A death bed confession. What else could there be? jmo

 

[Backwoods]

While I am sorry for this families loss, I don't know how anyone could help with something that happened 42 years ago. Maybe a miracle. A death bed confession. What else could there be? jmo

A miracle would be nice, yes!

I'm thinking, though -- maybe somewhere out there is someone who saw something that day...something they didn't think was unusual at the time, something they've largely forgotten. But imagine, if they by chance heard Carlene's case mentioned ... started thinking, "Hey, I remember something a little odd I saw at Westgate (or wherever) around that time ..." ... and things started coming together...! Yes, maybe a miracle.

Then, too, Carlene's thread is not a really heavily-traveled one, with her case coming from so long ago, as you say; it's possible that just some "new WS eyes" might help somehow.

I'm just asking those who will to take a look.

 

[mck16]

A miracle would be nice, yes!

I'm thinking, though -- maybe somewhere out there is someone who saw something that day...something they didn't think was unusual at the time, something they've largely forgotten. But imagine, if they by chance heard Carlene's case mentioned ... started thinking, "Hey, I remember something a little odd I saw at Westgate (or wherever) around that time ..." ... and things started coming together...! Yes, maybe a miracle.

Then, too, Carlene's thread is not a really heavily-traveled one, with her case coming from so long ago, as you say; it's possible that just some "new WS eyes" might help somehow.

I'm just asking those who will to take a look.

I hope so. That would be wonderful. Was she a relative or acquaintance of yours. A really sad case. Hoping for miracles. jmo

 

[Foxfire]

How many times, how many cases have the cults been involved in murders of innocent/random people? I don't mean people who have been involved in cults in the past, but who are actively cult members? ty

<BBM for Focus>

Not sure I understand your question Mck16..

 

[Foxfire]

It's not even clear that the Nuwaubians have ever been convicted of any murder...so it seems totally implausible that they would start now, when their numbers have dwindled considerably, and do so as some sort of act of retaliation against a sheriff who had no connection whatsoever to the victims.

Sheriff Sills is connected to every citizen of Putnam County, GA. He is sworn to protect and to serve, and is responsible for their public safety.. SS takes this very personal...imo

Montjoy, if you will watch the Dwight 'Malachi' York Ungodly predator video linked below. You will understand why the NC's were never convicted of any murder/s. They were protected and the FBI failed to share investigative info on the NC with the local NY LE officials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwSciJnNQA

 

[lakeoconee]

143 Carolyn Drive for sale at 2.3M listing with photos on Coldwell Banker Lake Oconee... My second theory was the perp got the WRONG house. Docks look similar...

I am sure my FRIEND who lives at 143 would be thrilled to hear this.

 

[OTPTarheel]

I am sure my FRIEND who lives at 143 would be thrilled to hear this.

I am sure your friend allowed the realtor to have someone take the photos. They look professional.

If your house is listed there are all kinds of info on the realty/ brokerage website and then you have Zillow and Trulia and the tax assessor's office with the house layouts. Zillow and Trulia show houses that are no longer on the market as well as on the market. As a former realtor, I know how to access all these things and I also believe smart, web savvy criminals do,too.

The websites allow buyers to shop from home, but if it were me, and we sold a house last year, I had a photo of the front only. You could get a brochure when you were brought in via lockbox entry with an agent. You don't have to put 25 photos up showing all your possessions. I certainly didn't and wouldn't if I sell our current house and/or condo. It's a blueprint for B& E.

And never hold an open house for prospective buyers!
Is that allowed at GW/ RP?? Hmmmm.


Just my opinions.

 

[atthelake]

It's not even clear that the Nuwaubians have ever been convicted of any murder...so it seems totally implausible that they would start now, when their numbers have dwindled considerably, and do so as some sort of act of retaliation against a sheriff who had no connection whatsoever to the victims.

BBM - That is EXACTLY why escalation to murder may have occurred, thanks for pointing this out so clearly again for us all.

That SS *broke up* their *family* is a VERY GOOD reason for such a heinous act IMO. You mess with my *family* by *cutting off the head of our organization* (jailing of DY, the head of the NC) and I'll get back at you. Tit for tat. Sounds VERY plausible to me.

And if you watch the video, he states clearly that the worst part previously was trying to investigate this bunch in a politically/racially/religously charged environment. I'll refer to all the good points that Firefox has made above to add here.

Second BBM - I believe he has a connection to the Dermonds IMHO. He is passionate that he feels responsible for the safety of folks in his community.

Some folks cannot perceive such a passion and responsibility if they were in his place I guess, so they cannot understand this line of thinking that he has a strong personal connection without being *friends* with the Dermonds. Perhaps that's why some individuals cannot understand this theory? Just my thoughts.

ETA: Added point about SS had *cut off the head of their organization* by jailing DY

 

[mck16]

<BBM for Focus>

Not sure I understand your question Mck16..

An example would be the Manson murders back in the 70's. Has anything like that happened since then? Cult members go into a random home and murder the people living there. ty

 

[southernmimi]

Remember the Clutter family years ago? Perry Smith and his buddy traveled days to steal from them...and ended up killing the entire family. They had never met them...didn't find the money they came to steal..yet they brutally murdered an innocent family.

 

[mck16]

Remember the Clutter family years ago? Perry Smith and his buddy traveled days to steal from them...and ended up killing the entire family. They had never met them...didn't find the money they came to steal..yet they brutally murdered an innocent family.

Were they in a cult? Is that the instance In Cold Blood is based on? ty

 

[atthelake]

Remember the Clutter family years ago? Perry Smith and his buddy traveled days to steal from them...and ended up killing the entire family. They had never met them...didn't find the money they came to steal..yet they brutally murdered an innocent family.

Good Summary of this on youtube - killing where the intention was to rob a home safe, which the family did not have. (Summary of Truman Copote "In Cold Blood")

ETA: No, the killers were not a part of a cult

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naQugZoMpg8

 

[mck16]

Good Summary of this on youtube - killing where the intention was to rob a home safe, which the family did not have. (Summary of Truman Copote "In Cold Blood")

ETA: No, the killers were not a part of a cult

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naQugZoMpg8

Thank you atthelake. That was my question. How common is it that a cult commits a random murder? I saw the original movie of In Cold Blood and when it was over, I went to the bathroom and vomited. That was the most awful crime and punishment. jmo