GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[atthelake]

Thank you atthelake. That was my question. How common is it that a cult commits a random murder? I saw the original movie of In Cold Blood and when it was over, I went to the bathroom and vomited. That was the most awful crime and punishment. jmo

mck - Not in the news lately that I recall. Perhaps due to the refinement/changes of *cults* to *gangs* these days? IYKWIM

ETA: And remember, Manson group of 4 - the first house that they killed Sharon Tatum etc was NOT random as they believed mistakenly that someone else was living in that house and was the target. They killed the wrong targets on first one iirc.

 

[shadow of my mind]

That is what I have said all along. Family involvement doesn't make a lick of sense and these people aren't stupid by any means.

It is commonly known that the lack of a body and a person only classified as missing slows the estate down by many years. By the time it was finally finalized there was a good chance that both of them would have passed away from natural causes by then since they were already close to 90.
I truly think they were a very close loving family which makes it all the more tragic that the children have lost both of their parents at the same time due to crossing paths with a monster.

JMO

BBM

That is exactly what I meant -----who would gain something by what would not happen if Mr. D was found dead and Mrs. D was missing ---- in the follow the money theory.

Is there anyone (this does not have to mean a family member) who would benefit from the D's not being able to make and/or change something in their financial portfolio?

 

[southernmimi]

Were they in a cult? Is that the instance In Cold Blood is based on? ty

In Cold Blood was written about the Clutters. The killers weren't in a cult, but heard, while they were in prison, that the Clutters kept a lot of money in their home. Groups of people talking and acting on incorrect information..guess that was my point. It's been going on forever and nothing new. The Dermonds were just as innocent as the Clutters, but, IMO, someone thought they had money lying around.

 

[mck16]

In Cold Blood was written about the Clutters. The killers weren't in a cult, but heard, while they were in prison, that the Clutters kept a lot of money in their home. Groups of people talking and acting on incorrect information..guess that was my point. It's been going on forever and nothing new. The Dermonds were just as innocent as the Clutters, but, IMO, someone thought they had money lying around.

Gotcha. And if they were singled out specifically, I would agree with you. Just not into the cult theory yet. I think they would also have left a calling card. A specific threat or warning or some kind of message would have come up by now. But, this is JMO. As far as In Cold Blood, I have seen both movies, and read the book. Horrible crime. These men were monsters. ty

 

[atthelake]

BBM

That is exactly what I meant -----who would gain something by what would not happen if Mr. D was found dead and Mrs. D was missing ---- in the follow the money theory.

Is there anyone (this does not have to mean a family member) who would benefit from the D's not being able to make and/or change something in their financial portfolio?

Good question for thought provoking. Lemme start a list and others can add if interested:

<modsnip>

8) A trustee/lawyer that is paid to oversee a living trust yearly,(we DON'T know existed, I'm just theorizing here and below) but was about to be canned for another trustee
9) A friend who used to be getting monies from a living trust, but the trust was to be changed.
10) Someone who had a personal loan from the Dermonds, for which have may been verbal
11) Someone who purchased something from the Dermonds, for which there was no papertrail
12) A broker who didn't want to lose handling their accounts and the nice commissions of doing so
13) Someone who did not want the Dermonds to "pull out" of an investment that they had made, as potentially the removal of Dermonds $$ backing/investment would make the entire entity fold like a deck of cards and others (just one person, or many others) lose $$.
14) Someone who was found by the Dermonds doing something financially *fishy/illegal* with their monies (but with forensic accountants, this unlikely as the FBI would probably find out this quickly :moo

Some of these are far fetched :escape: - just doing a dump of ideas for a list.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Good question for thought provoking. Lemme start a list and others can add if interested:

<modsnip>

8) A trustee/lawyer that is paid to oversee a living trust yearly,(we DON'T know existed, I'm just theorizing here and below) but was about to be canned for another trustee
9) A friend who used to be getting monies from a living trust, but the trust was to be changed.
10) Someone who had a personal loan from the Dermonds, for which have may been verbal
11) Someone who purchased something from the Dermonds, for which there was no papertrail
12) A broker who didn't want to lose handling their accounts and the nice commissions of doing so
13) Someone who did not want the Dermonds to "pull out" of an investment that they had made, as potentially the removal of Dermonds $$ backing/investment would make the entire entity fold like a deck of cards and others (just one person, or many others) lose $$.
14) Someone who was found by the Dermonds doing something financially *fishy/illegal* with their monies (but with forensic accountants, this unlikely as the FBI would probably find out this quickly :moo

Some of these are far fetched :escape: - just doing a dump of ideas for a list.

BBM
Good list for
-----who would gain something by what would not happen if Mr. D was found dead and Mrs. D was missing ---- in the follow the money theory.

Is there anyone (this does not have to mean a family member) who would benefit from the D's not being able to make and/or change something in their financial portfolio?

also add
15) selling of property that would allow changes in deed restrictions or land use

And #13 would fill the bill, so to speak, with the "self-preservation" aspect of a perp that many have posted on WS could potentially be a reason for this horrific crime.

 

[atthelake]

BBM
Good list for
-----who would gain something by what would not happen if Mr. D was found dead and Mrs. D was missing ---- in the follow the money theory.

Is there anyone (this does not have to mean a family member) who would benefit from the D's not being able to make and/or change something in their financial portfolio?

also add
15) selling of property that would allow changes in deed restrictions or land use

And #13 would fill the bill, so to speak, with the "self-preservation" aspect of a perp that many have posted on WS could potentially be a reason for this horrific crime.

I'm not following you on #15. This is residential land use. The only land change that would be common that I could think of is if there was a grandfathering clause on golf membership. In some communities, they pay one lump sum for membership and then monthly. But how does that figure in? Can you expound? :doh:

 

[Nuvolari]

My neighbor tells the story of young woman that powdered a 60 day supply of Ambien in salad dressing and made a lovely Caesar Salad for her parents. After dinner the parents had their usual two martinis and got in the hot tub. Guess what happened?

The prescription for the Ambien, you ask? Her parent's. The vodka? The same. Everyone knew they loved their martinis and the tub.

Since the parents were in their late 80's, the coroner ruled double suicide and nobody disagreed.

I wasn't a bad way to go, after all. And the affairs of the estate were all in perfect order...

 

[lakeoconee]

I am sure your friend allowed the realtor to have someone take the photos. They look professional.

If your house is listed there are all kinds of info on the realty/ brokerage website and then you have Zillow and Trulia and the tax assessor's office with the house layouts. Zillow and Trulia show houses that are no longer on the market as well as on the market. As a former realtor, I know how to access all these things and I also believe smart, web savvy criminals do,too.

The websites allow buyers to shop from home, but if it were me, and we sold a house last year, I had a photo of the front only. You could get a brochure when you were brought in via lockbox entry with an agent. You don't have to put 25 photos up showing all your possessions. I certainly didn't and wouldn't if I sell our current house and/or condo. It's a blueprint for B& E.

And never hold an open house for prospective buyers!
Is that allowed at GW/ RP?? Hmmmm.


Just my opinions.

No open houses in any of the gated communities.

Your points are valid, but I think you might be unintentionally pointing out a target,

 

[shadow of my mind]

I'm not following you on #15. This is residential land use. The only land change that would be common that I could think of is if there was a grandfathering clause on golf membership. In some communities, they pay one lump sum for membership and then monthly. But how does that figure in? Can you expound? :doh:

I'm not referring to the home in GW, but if he/she have other land. A good example: The business were my spouse worked, was a corporation, with 3 primary stock holders holding the standard CEO/President, V-President/COO and Treasurer/CFO positions. All stock privately held. Across the road was about 20 acres of prime commercial land that fronted onto a very busy state highway that was purchased with a deed restriction tied to the current owner. It was owned personally by the CEO, but was purchased with funds via a executive loan made to the CEO by the corporation.
When the CEO unexpectedly passed away, based on verbiage in the loan agreement, the debt was forgiven and went into the estate of the deceased, which passed through to a designated heir (which happen to be a son [and CFO of same corporation] free and clear of debt and void of the attached deed restriction of not building on said land.
If you insert the same scenario to the case of the D's, if the estate could not be settled until Mrs. D was declared legally dead (presuming that the body was not to suppose to have been found and would be considered missing) the property could not pass to the heir, the debt would stay attached, and without the property changing hands the restriction on land use would stay intact.

 

[mck16]

No open houses in any of the gated communities.

Your points are valid, but I think you might be unintentionally pointing out a target,

I understand what you are saying. But, this has been discussed here since early on. I am sure the photos were put on the internet way before the tragedy happened. But, they might want to take them down now. Just a thought. jmo

 

[Canaille]

How many times, how many cases have the cults been involved in murders of innocent/random people? I don't mean people who have been involved in cults in the past, but who are actively cult members? ty

<modnsip> I don't think any cult is responsible for this. But, as hard headed as I am, I try to keep an open mind.

 

[Canaille]

I don't know that I agree that the Dermonds' murders were likely any kind of "copycat" or attempt to outdo Stephen McDaniel's crime -- but I WILL say that it was downright eerie how almost the second coverage of Lauren's murder/Stephen's plea wound down -- bang! The Dermond murder was there to "fill the space" in MSM. It really was odd.

On another note: Saturday -- or, at least, roughly, "a weekend". Why?

It seems to me that, for a lot of the theories we've pondered anyhow, doing this on a weekend makes little sense. Banking institutions certainly less accessible -- unless maybe the plan was an ATM thing and they wanted as few actual witnesses around as possible.... Seems lake activity would be higher on a weekend -- or did they want that extra actitivty as some kind of cover?

If it was a secret or information the perp feared the Dermonds might be about to share with authorities of some kind, perhaps he/they just didn't have a choice; it couldn't wait.

Anybody or everybody -- why the weekend timing? Any particular significance, y'all think?

Couldn't take off from work?

 

[Rhyolite]

BBM
Good list for
-----who would gain something by what would not happen if Mr. D was found dead and Mrs. D was missing ---- in the follow the money theory.

Is there anyone (this does not have to mean a family member) who would benefit from the D's not being able to make and/or change something in their financial portfolio?

also add
15) selling of property that would allow changes in deed restrictions or land use

And #13 would fill the bill, so to speak, with the "self-preservation" aspect of a perp that many have posted on WS could potentially be a reason for this horrific crime.

#15 reminds me of the property in AZ where Dermond's have some sort of odd joint tenancy.

 

[atthelake]

#15 reminds me of the property in AZ where Dermond's have some sort of odd joint tenancy.

???

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rhyolite]

My neighbor tells the story of young woman that powdered a 60 day supply of Ambien in salad dressing and made a lovely Caesar Salad for her parents. After dinner the parents had their usual two martinis and got in the hot tub. Guess what happened?

The prescription for the Ambien, you ask? Her parent's. The vodka? The same. Everyone knew they loved their martinis and the tub.

Since the parents were in their late 80's, the coroner ruled double suicide and nobody disagreed.

I wasn't a bad way to go, after all. And the affairs of the estate were all in perfect order...

I would not wish to be married to such a young lady.

 

[Rhyolite]

It's not even clear that the Nuwaubians have ever been convicted of any murder...so it seems totally implausible that they would start now, when their numbers have dwindled considerably, and do so as some sort of act of retaliation against a sheriff who had no connection whatsoever to the victims.

From what little I have read about this group, some red flags jump out to me about how a local zoning infraction escalates to a charges of child abuse/pedophilia and then to a federal land seizure. It appears Sills jumped to the "nuclear option". Especially telling that the GBI backed off supporting him at the time. Getting FBI and DHS involved in this zoning dispute post 9/11 also raises some questions of abuse of authority.

No doubt, York himself was a criminal. I can suggest Catholic priests, Baptist Ministers, Imans and Rabbi's with similar criminal traits.

That being said, this group, as with any "religion" is comprised of "Leaders appointed by God" at the top, and the "Flock" or Sheep, who follow, tithe and contribute to the organization. You can substitute this structure among any of the organized religions good and bad. Some of the "Flock" may have contributed entire life savings to the organization, only to see their leader imprisoned and their "temple" destroyed, the land sold from under them.

Depending on personalities involved, there will be "True Believers" who will continue to defend the religion and their "Man of God" who has been "crucified". (Familiar theme?)

I don't think it is a far reach that a follower or followers of this group may have targeted someone in the local community to "sacrifice". In fact, their may be some nexus between the sons murderer and imprisoned followers of this religion. IMO Sills is the target, and the Dermonds used as an example of more to come.

Now I have another theory, but best left unsaid.

 

[Rhyolite]

Couldn't take off from work?

Still gotta pay the bills!

 

[Rhyolite]

How many times, how many cases have the cults been involved in murders of innocent/random people? I don't mean people who have been involved in cults in the past, but who are actively cult members? ty

Can we include fanatical religions and political organizations in the definition of cults?

If so, there are not enough digits on my TI-30 calculator to compute a result for you. Even with scientific notation!

 

[Bethanthony]

#15 reminds me of the property in AZ where Dermond's have some sort of odd joint tenancy.

Which property are you talking about?

I don't recall seeing that, although I personally read the deed papers on their AZ home....