GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[atthelake]

I have looked at this many times, and maybe I am missing something, but where is the garage? ty

Bottom left 23x24 lilac area. See the right side that says what is what. Seeing this was the first time I had realized they had a porch off to the left in the plan. And turn it around...us from viewing from the lake we can see there must be a porch off to the right side looking at the house from the lake, which was never shown in any media photos imho. Off the master? Off the great room? Off both?

HTH

ETA: The top of the floor plans is TOWARDS the lake.

 

[JustyThoughts]

It does seem like forever since the murders of M/M D. We've covered every creative motive and means possible (a couple times). Although we are hoping for a break in the case and answers/details on what happened & why & who - in reality we on WS have only a cup out of a bath tub worth of facts/details at this point. Seems frustrating and am sure it is for LE and especially locals. That said, we are still under 2 months into the investigation. Some of these cases go 4 months, 9 months or even years to get solved (and some never). Hope this weekend brings some new information for LE and us. I don't feel that LE is at an impasse now... I think they are still moving forward and hopefully getting closer to their target.

 

[mck16]

Bottom left 23x24 lilac area. See the right side that says what is what. Seeing this was the first time I had realized they had a porch off to the left in the plan. And turn it around...us from viewing from the lake we can see there must be a porch off to the right side looking at the house from the lake, which was never shown in any media photos imho. Off the master? Off the great room? Off both?

HTH

ETA: The top of the floor plans is TOWARDS the lake.

I see that. So the other blue area is an extension (porch) off the garage? I thought that area to the left was maybe a pad or parking for camper or RV. I wish we had an actual picture of the place. jmo

 

[Zuri]

I have looked at this many times, and maybe I am missing something, but where is the garage? ty

The light purple perfect square. Looks like a 2 car garage on the left side of the house. On the diagram, bottom left hand corner.

 

[wildebeest]

Thank you all for the welcomes! Okay, here's my theory. I believe it was a teenager(s) or young adult(s), but probably a single individual. If there were no defensive wounds, strength would not be a huge obstacle, even moving SD's body. Someone who is still living at home or visiting their parents home (in GW) on the weekend. Someone who feels persecuted or bullied for not fitting in, like the Columbine killers or any of the other young people who've gone off the deep end. In this case the killer is convinced that he is smarter than anyone else and is not appreciated for the depth of his intelligence. Being so close to Macon, I think they were very familiar with the Lauren Giddings case and became fascinated by the prospect of committing a "perfect murder" to prove in his own mind that he is smarter than anyone else. It would be someone casually acquainted with the Dermonds, and would not have really aroused their suspicions regardless of whatever pretense he used to gain entry, and also maybe felt dissed by Mr. Dermond over some inconsequential thing. Someone who would have been out on the lake numerous times in their family's boat. I also agree with ticya that the Dermonds may well have left their door unlocked and the alarm off when they were home. I live in Macon-Bibb (hardly the safest of Ga locales) and not in a gated community. We've been burglarized three times, but still when I'm home (unless I'm more than several hundred yards from the house) I still leave my door unlocked and we don't even turn the alarm on at night, only when we're away from home.


Of course I agree with everyone's sentiments that whoever did this is captured soon and the Dermond family can get some closure. Such a horrific crime and to still be wondering who and why.

Welcome Abelia, glad you are here sharing your ideas with us. In the scenario above, what was the perp's motive in committing this crime? That is the biggest question, here.

 

[Abelia]

Welcome Abelia, glad you are here sharing your ideas with us. In the scenario above, what was the perp's motive in committing this crime? That is the biggest question, here.

Thanks Wildebeest. I think the same motive as Stephen McDaniel's in the Lauren Giddings case....to commit the perfect murder. McDaniel nearly pulled off the perfect murder and he wanted to outsmart McDaniel. That case was widely covered by msm in GA even as recently as May 3rd. There was a series of articles in the Macon newspaper for days after his guilty plea (22Apr2014) detailing the lurid details of his crime and how he nearly walked. http://www.macon.com/lauren-giddings/

I believe the perp is someone with a sense of entitlement, who is not accepted by peers and so a loner with a lot to prove, if even only to himself.

I should add, a resident of GW who selected the Dermonds because of their age (little resistance), regular habits and isolated location. Knowing that anyone likely to call or visit would be at the Derby party provided the perfect time. As for the reports the perp wanted something the Dermonds didn't have or couldn't get, could be part of the plan or as some have theorized a collectible. Possibly something he knew they had, but didn't know they kept in a safety deposit box at the bank, which was closed on Saturday. But something he wanted as a souvenir of the killings, but not for it's monetary value.

 

[atthelake]

Thanks Wildebeest. I think the same as Stephen McDaniel's in the Lauren Giddings case....to commit the perfect murder. McDaniel nearly pulled off the perfect murder and he wanted to outsmart McDaniel.

And This Leads Us To Our Second Theory ...IYKWIM

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[OTPTarheel]

Where are you seeing pics of the dock? tia

Go to listing on Coldwell Banker LakeOconee. About 25 photos inside and out of 149.

 

[Bootsctr]

Bootsctr, be sure to watch the video titled; 'Dwight "Malachi" York Ungodly Predator'. It has a younger Sheriff Sills, and other investigators participating in a power point presentation concerning the NC investigation, during an Ungodly book signing. Eyeopening..


http://www.mashpedia.com/Dwight_York

Thank you Foxfire!

 

[mck16]

Where are you seeing pics of the dock? tia

Go to listing on Coldwell Banker LakeOconee. About 25 photos inside and out of 149.

149 is no longer an active listing so there are no pics. drats!!


eta: I found 143 and there are a lot of pictures.

 

[Nuvolari]

Reference only...

 

[Foxfire]

The theory about the Nuwaubians, if you can call it a theory, has never really made any sense anyhow. It's been proposed that the Dermonds were murdered to taunt sheriff Sills, or perhaps as payback for grievances for which they believe Sills is responsible.

Sure, they're bad folks, and yes, they have had issues with Sills. But the theory very quickly falls apart:

-- what sort of a cult/terror group would attempt such a risky murder and then *not* claim responsibility for it?

-- if this was about a personal gripe with Sills, then why not do something to hurt Sills personally, like killing a family member or a friend, or for that matter, damaging his property, instead of killing people who were apparently virtual strangers to him, or at least not close to him at all?

Frankly, it just doesn't make sense, and (not to defend the Nuwaubians), but I think they're being treated collectively as a convenient bogeyman/scapegoat. This really is not something consistent with their past practices at all, either. For reference: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/nuwaubian-nation-of-moors

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, Montjoy, I consider the Dermond abduction/murders/decapitation as retribution/punishment by the Nawaubian Cult a very plausible theory.

Retributive justice, is a theory of justice that considers proportionate punishment an acceptable response to crime. The NC Cult members feel strongly that their pedophile Prophet; Dwight 'Malachi' York, was Railroaded; wrongly accused, convicted, and sentenced to 135 years in Federal Super Max, and Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is the white devil catalyst for the perceived conspiracy... The NC has continuously filed frivolous and groundless lawsuits and made death threats against Sheriff Sills, as well as his family for a decade or more.

All federal appeals have been exhausted for DY, and his followers have even attempted a failed ruse of forging official prison release papers for their leader.

The NC has Motive, Means, and Opportunity, imo..
The assassination of the Dermonds were committed by well trained malignant sadistic psychopaths. Psychopaths are very calculating, creative, manipulative, and deflective. Due to these traits, psychopaths often speak in riddles, imo...

RE: Why hasn't the NC claimed responsibility?
* The day isn't over yet....

* KD said that his parents murders were cult related. Imo, KD has much more info concerning the NC, to come to this conclusion...

* If an assassination or attempt had been made on Sheriff Sills, LE/Investigators would have zoned in on NC, due to the obvious, combined with the prior assassination of the NY liaison official in 1998..

* The well planned and executed abduction/murders/decapitation of the Dermands wasn't a taunt, but a horrific riddle laden crime whose meaning would only be known by the person of its intent; Sheriff Howard Sills, the Putnam County Justice system, and many in the community..

* The decapitation of RD was described by SS as being done by someone experienced in cutting the heads off of deer or other large animals. The NC property was zoned for agriculture/hunting preserve, and was 4/5 surrounded by the Oconee National Forest. Imo, due to food costs, the NC likely maintained a garden, raised, and butchered their own meats. Five hundred NC members are a lot of mouth$ to feed..

* The NC jailers(former Macon, GA Police officers) recruited inmates at the Clark County(Athens)correctional facility. Why?

* The FBI is assisting in the Dermond Investigation, as in the Nawaubian Investigation..

* The GBI has not been requested by SS to assist in the Dermond Investigation due to their Investigative conclusions in the NC investigation..

'For those who believe no proof is necessary and for those who disbelieve, no proof is possible'... Stuart Chase..

* Dwight "Malachi" York; Ungodly Predator
Dwight "Malachi" York: Ungodly Predator - YouTube

 

[mck16]

Reference only...

Thank you. Your first thumbnail shows the garage as a side entry. That makes sense to me. ty

 

[AskMeNoQuestions]

The follow the money scenario makes sense right up until you consider SD. If the killer(s) didn't want her found, do they realize it takes years to declare a missing individual deceased and settle their estate? The money flow would be much quicker to have left her in the garage with her husband.

Or, If I can't have it you can't have it either...

 

[Bootsctr]

I have said it before and I will say it again. I wish we could see the front of the house. Where is the front door in relation to the garage? If the door in down on the garage then entry would have to be from inside the house unless there is a door on the side of the house that leads to the garage. Why are there no pictures of the front if this is where the crime scene was? There is so much we do not know because it has not been released. Also do the NC dress like normal people or do they go about in some kind of garb? jmo

JMO mck16, but LE and the community are protecting the integrity of the home. It will eventually be put up for sale. I think they are not showing the front of the house so when pictures are posted it will not be recognized. I think the majority of us here have the back of the house memorized. I have only seen one shot of the front of the house (and that was only about 2 seconds) and the overhead shot where the police vans/ME were parked in front of the garage. We discussed a possible pool of blood that a good websleuther :websleuther: enlarged for us and it looked to be some type of bag. :seeya:

I am not sure what the NC women dressed like, but Foxfire has described black military-type attire. The man at the bookstore that Carolinapeach posted a video of dressed in very elaborate garb - lots of gold, black - very rich coloring. :Crown: :goldcrown: Couldn't miss him. I'm sure their covert attire was very appropriate for whatever crime they might have been committing. And, if perhaps the women did work cleaning houses for locals, they probably dressed very unassumingly.

The Derby Party - was it formal or informal? I think it was probably informal - everybody bring a dish - pot luck sort of party. Or, was it catered? How many people attended the party? How far in advance were people to RSVP? One or two weeks out from the party would give the perp a chance to plan an attack.

 

[Bootsctr]

Reference only...

Thank you. Excellent reference. I agree with Ocean Blue Eyes that the boat was small, such as a jon boat. Just like Scott Peterson used to dispose of Lacy. A big boat such as a pontoon boat would be harder to maneuver into the cove where the Dermonds' pier and boat launch was located. A small boat with a small motor/trolling motor quiet and not likely to be spotted on the neighbor's camera. I, too, like a lot of you, go back and forth between one or two perps. I think one person could have accomplished it, but Sills has said at least two perps. Again, the perp may have used two different weapons to "mislead" investigators. I think someone (treelights ? tomcat ? OBE ? Foxfire) was right when they said the perp was smart. I am thinking this guy ain't no dummy either.

I also believe Ocean Blue Eyes is correct about Mrs. Dermond being alive, but bound and gagged when taken to the boat - if she was even able to walk at that point after all she must have endured. This is where I sway between one or two perps. Two perps could have carried her if she resisted walking.

 

[atthelake]

149 is no longer an active listing so there are no pics. drats!!


eta: I found 143 and there are a lot of pictures.

Yeah. It Is Difficult When Archives Numbers Change That Many Of The Wonderful Folks Keep To Help Us Later...But The Numbers Of The Posts Change When Admins Remove Posts Due To Reports Of Blown Margins Or Things That Are Against TOS.

:escape:

 

[Bootsctr]

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, Montjoy, I consider the Dermond abduction/murders/decapitation as retribution/punishment by the Nawaubian Cult a very plausible theory.

Retributive justice, is a theory of justice that considers proportionate punishment an acceptable response to crime. The NC Cult members feel strongly that their pedophile Prophet; Dwight 'Malachi' York, was Railroaded; wrongly accused, convicted, and sentenced to 135 years in Federal Super Max, and Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is the white devil catalyst for the perceived conspiracy... The NC has continuously filed lawsuits against Sheriff Sills for a decade or more.

All federal appeals have been exhausted for DY, and his followers have even attempted a failed ruse of forging official prison release papers for their leader.

The NC has Motive, Means, and Opportunity, imo..
The assassination of the Dermonds were committed by well trained malignant sadistic psychopaths. Psychopaths are very calculating, creative, manipulative, and deflective. Due to these traits, psychopaths often speak in riddles, imo...

* If an assassination or attempt had been made on Sheriff Sills, LE/Investigators would have zoned in on NC, due to the obvious, combined with the prior assassination of the NY liaison official in 1998..

* The well plan and executed abduction/murders/decapitation of the Dermands wasn't a taunt, but a riddle laden crime whose meaning would only be known by the person of its intent; Sheriff Howard Sills, the Putnam County Justice system, and many in the community..

* The decapitation of RD was described by SS as being done by someone experienced in cutting the heads off of deer or other large animals. The NC property was zoned for agriculture/hunting preserve, and was 4/5 surrounded by the Oconee National Forest. Imo, due to food costs, the NC likely maintained a garden, raised, and butchered their own meats. Five hundred NC members are a lot of mouth$ to feed..

* The NC jailers(former Macon, GA Police officers) recruited inmates at the Clark County(Athens)correctional facility. Why?

* The FBI is assisting in the Dermond Investigation, as in the Nawaubian Investigation..

* The GBI has not been requested by SS to assist in the Dermond Investigation due to their Investigative conclusions in the NC investigation..

* Dwight "Malachi" York; Ungodly Predator
Dwight "Malachi" York: Ungodly Predator - YouTube

:goodpost::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2:

Respectfully bolded by me regarding the experience of the NC in dressing large animals such as deer. I am thinking these people probably dressed and beheaded plenty of goats too. I don't know why goats popped into my head, but we eat goat here in the south. Some people consider it a delicacy.

#2 respectfully bolded by me tells me the NC have law enforcement experience and I have NO DOUBT the NC could and would impersonate an officer.

 

[Bootsctr]

The follow the money scenario makes sense right up until you consider SD. If the killer(s) didn't want her found, do they realize it takes years to declare a missing individual deceased and settle their estate? The money flow would be much quicker to have left her in the garage with her husband.

This rules out the family for me . . . . unless it was dumb and dumber.

Mr. Dermond's head was taken for:
1. Self preservation - weapon/bullet still in the skull and could perp could be identified.

2. To send a message to the GW/RP community as a whole that "you people" are not as safe as you think you are - even with your fancy guard gate and cameras - you are still a target.

3. To send a message to the family specifically. And we all know the family didn't hang around very long at all. Got the heck out of RP/GW and Eatonton, Georgia faster than you can say Nuwaubian Nation Cult and Dwight York.

OFF TOPIC: But every time I type Nuwaubian, I think of Nubian goats.

 

[Hickory Born]

Reference only...

Nuvolari, the sketch with measurements helps me realize the house was not as far from the water as I had thought. Thank you so much for doing this.

The dock you have pictured is not directly nextdoor (empty lot there) but the one after the empty lot. These pic are great showing us how easily it is to see the houses across the cove.