GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

[DAMIFINO]

SAID........"possible"............. Dermond was not killed at the house, could be OUTSIDE the House? Or in another location, I think outside, possibly in garage, there was some blood there, right? But not alot of blood splatter? Or not enought to indicate a shooting in the garage correct?

Also, don't know why they think it was a gunshot, would love to know the answer to that pondering, I feel like it was also BFT, if it occurred in garage, if not, maybe shot outside, and drug back in the garage to hide him til their getaway and then, well, the rest of what they did to D, inside garage?

So now thinking again, why not leave them both or take them both? If he wasn't bleeding so much due to mortis, why not take him too if they were concerned about leaving a blood trail to the car or the dock, which wouldn't have been so much if after mortis set in and after beheading


1-for effect, someone wanted it to be known
2-hide evidence (why not take his body off too, see #1)
3-took SD only to confuse the investigative trail

To me, 1 and 3 makes the most sense

Also thinking, she was alive and could walk at the time of abduction, so walked willingly with perps, he would have had to be carried if already dead, so then it was easy to take her if she was alive, he was not, another reason he was left behind possibly?

So that would indicate, the perps wanted information from here that couldn't get from him? Didn't get it from her either, so BFT and lake because they had left the D's property, certainly wasn't going to go BACK to the crime scene I would think

For lack of blood in the garage, the beheading must've occurred an hour or more after his death? Could taken place in the garage, can't see this taking place in the yard, too much chance someone might drive up or boat up

But IDK, just thinking out loud

I HOPE, they went at the same time due to surprise BFT, so neither had to witness anything horrific

The more time goes by, the more I think that the killers were trying to get something big from them.. money, info, something.... or for retribution for something in the far distant past... And I keep thinking about Mr. D being beheaded.. why do that? And Mrs. D's body hidden in the lake...
No blood from Mr D and the dogs did not find a blood trail on the property or IIRC, on the vacant lots around them.
What if the killer somehow got him/them to a covered boat house with a wench, hung him up head down over the water and cut his head off? Plop, head goes in the water, he bleeds out. Maybe the head is not important, it was just lost?
Then they torture Mrs. D and finally kill her or she dies from the fright and they dump her. They take Mr. D back to the house as a sign for some reason..that they got what they wanted or didn't get what they wanted and would be looking for it from someone else involved? His headless body was taken there for a reason..

Gruesome, I know but....Years ago, before I moved to the country, there were three young men who tortured and killed an old couple who lived down the road. The couple was dirt poor but the rumor was the old man didn't trust banks and had a bunch of money hidden in cans in the yard. The boys tied them up and tortured them for days, going out and digging in the yard and not finding anything. They finally killed them.The boys were caught and sent to jail.

 

[Foxfire]

Bumping article;

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

<sniped - read more at link>

May 16, 2014
Son of Putnam victims blames cult for mom&#8217;s disappearance

Keith Dermond says he doesn't believe the murder of his father, Russell Dermond, and the possible kidnapping of his mother, Shirley Dermond, was random.

Channel 2&#8217;s Richard Elliot spoke on the phone with the Dermond&#8217;s son Keith. He&#8217;s in Jacksonville, Fla. He didn&#8217;t want to be recorded, but did talk about what the past two weeks have been like for his family.

Keith Dermond doesn&#8217;t believe someone specifically targeted his parents for this brutal crime. He believes it&#8217;s random, maybe the work of a cult.

 

[southernmimi]

He doesn't believe it was random, but he believes it was random...maybe the work of a cult? Maybe they had employed someone associated with a cult and had problems with them. I would mention it to my children if I'd had some type of disagreement with a local person(s).

 

[Foxfire]

He doesn't believe it was random, but he believes it was random...maybe the work of a cult? Maybe they had employed someone associated with a cult and had problems with them. I would mention it to my children if I'd had some type of disagreement with a local person(s).

I see what you mean...
This statement is what caught my eye; He didn&#8217;t want to be recorded..

 

[tomkat]

well that's kind of confusing, it wasn't random, it was random, yet cult was mentioned and he DID NOT WANT TO BE RECORDED

WHY? BUt of course no matter who it was, I might not want to be recorded either knowing they were still out there

And don't forget, they got out of town without going to the vigil I believe

I think I would have stayed for my parents vigil while awaiting autopsy etc since that would be delayed and the church was nice enough to hold it for the deceased and families except of course if I felt like the family might be targeted

When one does genealogy, you also have to go by circumstantial evidence when all the blatant facts are missing, seems this is a similar situation.

You never know who your neighbors are either, just found out that the neighbor's daughter, of my rental house, was charged with felony murder, among other things about 4 years ago, never knew the adult daughters name so wouldn't have even known to look it up but the mother next door there has been there 20 years, never been a problem and loved her peace and quiet, found out her sons gang friends have been hanging out there

oh what a difference a day makes, in this case it was about a minute LOL

 

[Carolinapeach]

Interesting post on the Eatonton Messenger FB page. Unfounded rumor but interesting to me because Troup County isn't nearby. JMO...

 

[mck16]

Interesting post on the Eatonton Messenger FB page. Unfounded rumor but interesting to me because Troup County isn't nearby. JMO...

Is there a link? ty



Never mind I found it. Thanks.

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting post on the Eatonton Messenger FB page. Unfounded rumor but interesting to me because Troup County isn't nearby. JMO...

Eatonton Messenger
52 minutes ago
There may be some unfounded rumors out there today about the Dermond murder case, but according to Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills, '(the) Troup Co. Sheriff's Office did NOT recover a head today. A fisherman reeled in a Walmart bag containing rubber gloves and reptile bones.'

The reward in the case of the murders in early May of Russell and Shirley Dermond, who lived in the Great Waters community of Reynolds Plantation, is more than $55,000. If you have any information, call PCSO at 706-485-8557.

https://www.facebook.com/EatontonMessenger

 

[Rhyolite]

Eatonton Messenger
52 minutes ago
(snip)

A fisherman reeled in a Walmart bag containing rubber gloves and reptile bones.'

(snip)

I wonder what kind of reptile?

 

[mck16]

I wonder what kind of reptile?

I would guess a turtle. jmo

 

[2Hope4]

Reading back through the thread, as nothing new seems to be coming up.

As for dressing a deer, or other wild animal. Not a criminal mind needs to be considered. My son and daughter have both been doing that since they were around 12-13yrs old. From deer, chickens, hogs, etc. Nothing sinister, they are hunters, from a hunting family. My son killed a deer once, because it had a wire wrapped around it's body behind the front legs, and would have killed her as she grew. There was no way to remove it. He has never killed another, and has no desire to. My daughter on the other hand killed 8 deer this past season. Again, nothing sinister. It is what it is as a way of life for us.

Far leap from a hunter to a murderer IMO.

Does it take some know how to remove a head? YES. But that information could be found on the net. If you've ever cut up a whole chicken for frying, you'll know what I mean. Yes you need to cut between joints, many do not know how, thus only buy their chickens already cut up for them.

Most hunters that I know wouldn't harm a person, and typically look out for the elderly. Even providing them with some of their wild game during hunting season. Not saying this is the case in the Dermonds as I don't know if they've ever even eaten wild game meat before!!

 

[2Hope4]

Watching HLN forensic files or something tonight. One case, a school teacher hired a man and his daughter for lawn work. Later she was murdered. The daughter said from day one that was the plan of her Dad's. **note to self, the weeds can keep growing. I'll buy a goat before I follow through with hiring help as I had intended to do.**

While the Dermonds did indeed seem rather active for a couple their age, that lawn wasn't level flat land. Even with a riding mower, it would be difficult to keep up the landscaping, the weed eating, etc. I truly wonder if they had someone helping out. Not sure if rich people hire local teenagers, or even if rich teenagers are willing to do lawn work for a bit of cash, but it's possible. Typically a friend's grandson, or son want to make some cash. I would imagine in a gated community, there would be lots of money to be made if you knew the HOA rules in keeping the landscaping within protocol. Plus would be they most likely have their own lawnmowers, weed eaters, etc., so you wouldn't have to purchase your own.

Why this far into the investigation do we still not know much about the daily activities, and such within that community? Could someone have been doing yard work, and hired a friend of theirs to help as the work load intensified? "Hey buddy, I'm overwhelmed at the Reynold's taking care of X amount of homes. Wanna make some money this summer and help me?"

But then, why would young people think to remove a head, and remove a body from the scene????

 

[2Hope4]

THAT aspect of this crime is what wipes out most any situation I can think of. A simple robbery would have no need to behead someone, nor remove Mrs. Dermond from the property!!! Even "IF" Mr. Dermond was murdered and Mrs. Dermond taken to get ATM passwords, or whatever, I just can't understand the beheading.

Not a typical crime at all. Not a typical crime scene at all.

WHO MURDERED THIS COUPLE???? Will they soon be caught?? Was no evidence left to link to them??? UGH UGH UGH!

 

[DAMIFINO]

Reading back through the thread, as nothing new seems to be coming up.

As for dressing a deer, or other wild animal. Not a criminal mind needs to be considered. My son and daughter have both been doing that since they were around 12-13yrs old. From deer, chickens, hogs, etc. Nothing sinister, they are hunters, from a hunting family. My son killed a deer once, because it had a wire wrapped around it's body behind the front legs, and would have killed her as she grew. There was no way to remove it. He has never killed another, and has no desire to. My daughter on the other hand killed 8 deer this past season. Again, nothing sinister. It is what it is as a way of life for us.

Far leap from a hunter to a murderer IMO.

Does it take some know how to remove a head? YES. But that information could be found on the net. If you've ever cut up a whole chicken for frying, you'll know what I mean. Yes you need to cut between joints, many do not know how, thus only buy their chickens already cut up for them.

Most hunters that I know wouldn't harm a person, and typically look out for the elderly. Even providing them with some of their wild game during hunting season. Not saying this is the case in the Dermonds as I don't know if they've ever even eaten wild game meat before!!

ABSOLUTELY! Thank you for pointing that out. Shortly after the murders, there was speculation on this thread about who would have the expertise to behead a body. I was trying to point out that in Georgia with over a million hunters, there are lots of people who know how to cut off a head. That means it could have been almost anybody.

 

[DAMIFINO]

When one does genealogy, you also have to go by circumstantial evidence when all the blatant facts are missing, seems this is a similar situation.

Yes, preponderance of evidence but you still keep looking for that one little piece of the puzzle that will prove the theory. And sometimes, it is in the unlikeliest of places! I believe in genealogy, when someone wants to be found, they will help you and put that proof in front of you, but you have to be looking and open to it.

 

[Foxfire]

ABSOLUTELY! Thank you for pointing that out. Shortly after the murders, there was speculation on this thread about who would have the expertise to behead a body. I was trying to point out that in Georgia with over a million hunters, there are lots of people who know how to cut off a head. That means it could have been almost anybody.

<BBM for Focus>

Ya know DAMIFINO, Sheriff Sills didn't fall off a turnip truck. He is very aware that a very high percentage of the areas native population were farmers or hunters. Both Reynolds Plantation GW(Linger Longer) and the NC compound were both prior hunting clubs. SS made it a point to describe Mr D's decapitation as being performed by someone with experience and skill. This tells me that the decapitation was likely performed with precision by someone trained in the art of decapitation/dismemberment; martial arts, paramilitary, or military trained.. The members of the NC's security force; Mujahad, were both paramilitary and martial arts trained..Roy Savage JMO


http://books.google.com/books?id=5d...uwaubian Cult Security Force; Mujahid&f=false

The more loyal and committed members of the inner circle were composed of York's ministers, his chief propagators, his mujahid (bodyguards and security force),


http://www.culteducation.com/group/1083-nuwaubians.html
______
Nuwaubians
http://www.culteducation.com/group/...esley-snipes-faces-three-years-in-prison.html

That was also around the same time Snipes, who is an expert martial artist, and his brother started the Royal Guard of Amen-Ra, a security firm that provided body guards. That company ran into problems however after it was linked to the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors, a religious cult of African Americans with an anti-government philosophy that used Egyptian symbols. Snipes has used similar symbols to represent his businesses. He has also since distanced himself from the group in public.

 

[Foxfire]

Anyone know if the Dermonds were affiliated with the New Life Outreach Christian Center in Eatonton, GA?

 

[tomkat]

Correct, didnt' mean to make it sound like you stop, you are always searching, always, but in the meantime, you use the circumstances given you, i'm at an empasse in one of my lines but continue to hope for and look for a that one piece to tie it all together and provide more solid proof

surely some differences in murder cases as there are trials to contend with, but was just making a point becuase there is much circumstantial evidence to suggest it could be someone involved in the NC also

Thanks

 

[Foxfire]

Bumping;

Interesting; The Gurkha Knife is likely used by martial artists, paramilitary security (NC mujahad), and military, imo.

http://civilianmilitaryintelligence...oldier-disciplined-for-beheading-dead-taliban
Gurkhas With Gurkha Knife, Made For Beheading
July 21, 2010: In Afghanistan, a British Gurkha is facing court martial for beheading a dead Taliban gunman.

<sniped - read more>
The trouble began when the accused Gurkha&#8217;s unit had been sent in pursuit of a group of Taliban believed to contain a local Taliban leader. When the Gurkhas caught up with the Taliban, a gun battle broke out and several of the enemy were killed. The Gurkhas were ordered to retrieve the bodies of the dead Taliban, to see if one of them was the wanted leader. But the Gurkhas were still under heavy fire, and the Gurkha who reached one body realized he could not drag it away without getting shot. Thinking fast, he cut off the dead Taliban&#8217;s head and scampered away to safety.

Dominiquie Vandenberg with kukri knives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsk1ZSnT2cA

_______________________
<BBM for Focus>
RE: That was also around the same time Wesley Snipes, who is an expert martial artist, and his brother started the Royal Guard of Amen-Ra, a security firm that provided body guards. In 2000, a security / paramilitary group called the &#8220;Royal Guard Of Amen-Ra, Inc.&#8221; owned by actor Wesley Snipes&#8217;s Amen Ra Films filed BATF papers to set up a security training center next to the Tama-Re compound.[2] The Nuwaubians claimed Snipes as one of their own, though a spokeswoman for Snipes denied any connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama-Re

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Afghanistan-battle-cleared-return-duty.html

The private, from 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles, was involved in a fierce ... The Gurkha faced a court martial and possible jail sentence if he had ... the Gurkha took out his curved kukri knife and beheaded the dead insurgent.
<sniped - read more>
_________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsk1ZSnT2cA
kukri knives(video - history)

 

[curie-us]

Tomkat - re funny how they started charging after the murders, must be getting alot of traffic and someone saw $$$$$

More likely the local paper charging for access is something in the works for some time -- my guess is that their web hits were highest in the days and first couple weeks after Russell's body was discovered -- they did daily updates then, sometimes multiple updates in a day. If the murders were driving the decision to charge, wouldn't they have done it immediately? The subscription requirement was announced in May, to be implemented in June according to this, which would have been written before the murders were known about ... http://www.msgr.com/opinion/columni...cle_9227b284-d612-11e3-a917-001a4bcf887a.html