GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #13

[gngr~snap]

The first of the transcripts start here on the page


@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

•*Arthur Gains Strength; Unemployment Rate Falls; Wildfire Threatens Napa Homes; Video Captures Hit and Run; Judge Decides Toddler Hot-Car Death Charges; Three Years Since Casey Anthony Walked Free; Outrage in California Over Growing Border Crisis

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1407/03/ath.01.html


VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, there are already people waiting outside the courtroom hoping to hear what this additional information is that warrants the charges of second degree child cruelty and felony murder against Ross Harris.*

They've been here for hours. The assistant D.A., Chuck Bore, will be the prosecutor for the D.A. in this case, hearing potentially six to ten witnesses if things happen as we expect them to. He will also likely include the investigators here, also the patrol officers who were on the scene at that time of the day when this 22-month-old was pulled out of the vehicle. If those charges are deemed warranted, we'll move to the bond portion of this hearing today to determine if Ross Harris will stay behind bars at Cobb County jail or if he will be released to wait at home until the trial begins.*

 

[tlcya]

the youtube videos posted in the media and witness direct quote threads seem complete. Or at least they do seem to go beyond the probable cause portion of the hearing and include the witnesses put forth by the defense in hopes of getting bond. I watched some of the videos this morning - haven't finished with them yet to know for sure if they are complete. Also in the media thread someone has posted a link from wildabouttrial that is supposed to have the entire hearing. I have not checked to see if that is truth or not.

 

[cady]

JMO Cooper was born in the summer of 2012 so Leanna was probably pregnant at the very end of 2011 or very beginning of 2012. Seems the gels, t treatment and whatever IF ever produced a baby. Also, the 25,000 dollar insurance policy was purchased toward the end of 2012, when Cooper was 4or 5 months old. Just sayin

 

[Lovejac]

Look at the 4th comment

http://jezebel.com/toddler-dying-in-hot-car-may-not-have-been-an-accident-1599937518






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Even though I know that does happen, it sure hurts my heart to read that.

 

[Willow Knight]

But, but, but, he had dreams of Cooper with Jesus. That is one dream I NEVER had and I gave birth to a 1lb 13oz baby. Not once did I dream her dead.
Maybe other people have had a dead child dream. I dunno.
I have had dreams that my son fell off a balcony because he would not listen, but that woke me up so...

All posts are MOO. Sent via Insignia Flex Tablet.

This thread is moving so fast, could you please link or tell me where you saw this? I would love to read further on it. Thanks so much.

 

[LittleRose]

I just may need to give myself a time out from this case. I keep wavering back and forth on whether or not this was intentional or just a horrible tragic accident. I am still torn on LH and whether she was complicit. I don't know what to think or feel about it anymore but I can't stop imagining what little Cooper must have gone through.

What is the "clincher" for you? What has convinced you of RH guilt (or innocence)?

I, too, can't stop thinking of Cooper's suffering...

I'm not convinced LH is involved.

I was convinced of RH's intent to murder his son when I heard:
1. He researched the necessary temp for an animal to die in a hot car, and
2. He returned to the car at noon.

I would have convicted him on those first two facts alone. Every additional detail since has convinced me that he deserves nothing less than the death penalty.




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[Lyra500]

Respectfully snipped for brevity...

Someone here mentioned that LH had a comment on her YouTube page asking about sperm count and Androgel. I just went and looked it up – I'm not allowed to quote it but paraphrasing, she was concened that her doctors told her it shouldn't be a problem. She said RH had been on and off the gel for about 2 years and had injections in the past. This comment was made in 2012.

So, we still don't know if he was currently using it but there's a good chance he was. I wonder if that created an issue between them - him wanting a stiff one and her wanting a baby.

Would a side effect of testosterone cause him to gain weight? Or maybe the relevant question would be could it make him hyper-sexed and/or rage prone?

The is from the British National Formulary (prescribed medicines handbook in the UK) - side effects of testosterone.

Side-effects prostate abnormalities and prostate cancer, headache, depression, gastro-intestinal bleeding, nausea, vomiting, cholestatic jaundice, changes in libido, gynaecomastia, polycythaemia, anxiety, irritability, nervousness, asthenia, paraesthesia, hypertension, electrolyte disturbances including sodium retention with oedema and hypercalcaemia, weight gain; increased bone growth, muscle cramps, arthralgia; androgenic effects such as hirsutism, male-pattern baldness, seborrhoea, acne, pruritus, excessive frequency and duration of penile erection, precocious sexual development and premature closure of epiphyses in pre-pubertal males, suppression of spermatogenesis in men and virilism in women; rarely liver tumours; sleep apnoea also reported; with buccal tablets and gel, local irritation and allergic reactions, and taste disturbances

I think someone mentioned forgetfulness or memory problems earlier on - I could not find any references to memory problems when I searched.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Ah, thank you so much for that information!

Someone here mentioned that LH had a comment on her YouTube page asking about sperm count and Androgel. I just went and looked it up – I'm not allowed to quote it but paraphrasing, she was concened that her doctors told her it shouldn't be a problem. She said RH had been on and off the gel for about 2 years and had injections in the past. This comment was made in 2012.

So, we still don't know if he was currently using it but there's a good chance he was. I wonder if that created an issue between them - him wanting a stiff one and her wanting a baby.

Would a side effect of testosterone cause him to gain weight? Or maybe the relevant question would be could it make him hyper-sexed and/or rage prone?

Oh, and welcome! :welcome6:

Having adequate/normal Testosterone levels would help him maintain muscle mass and prevent from gaining excess fatty weight.

Testosterone can even be abused as a performance enhancing drug- it's a banned substance- rather, a baseball player was banned bc he abused Clomid- which was used as a sneaky way to boost testosterone to levels that are way too high but would affect performance in the sport positively.

However having low/no testosterone can cause weight gain, depression, erectile dysfunction, etc- see link: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/tutorials/lowtestosterone/ur189103.pdf

But yeah him getting crazy with testosterone and abusing it would definitely cause him to be ragey/hyper sexed. There is a term "Clomid crazies" ... Lol... But it's mostly used when us chicks have to take super high doses of it to trigger ovulation for fertility procedures.

But the crazies happen w too much T also (androgel, injections, HcG, etc)

I wonder if she was pissed he wanted to use something that would kill sperm count yet enhance performance (and then was cheating rather than be intimate w his wife) My opinion/speculation of course.

ETA: I also wonder about Kleinfelters (sp)?

Question: what does :wagon: mean? (Welcome wagon?)


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[leah]

FYI, Androgel is contraindicated while trying to conceive. It lowers sperm count.

http://www.androgel.com/questions-about-low-testosterone-and-androgel

I am familiar with MFI (male factor infertility) from my research when going through trying to conceive my 10 month old. Thankfully that was not our issue- but a couple we are good friends with are going through MFI issues right now- her H has LowT which causes low motility sperm. Rather than use androgel (bc it kills sperm) the RE (reproductive endocrinologist) put him on Clomid to fix the testosterone and sperm motility issue (interestingly it's also used to trigger ovulation in females).

So there's my tidbit of information. They would definitely NOT be TTC if he was on androgel. And it would possibly cause issues if she was exposed to it while pregnant.

BTW I'm new here, so, hola! :waves:


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Thank-you and Welcome My husband was given Androgel because he had, Low T, not for any other reason, like conception. I'm going to imagine it works for some men. The doctor was giving him the warning about being careful around me, and around children, our kids are grown, so that wasn't an issue. He became more aggressive, and there is a percentage of people that the drug can transfer on, I was one of the lucky people that this happened to. One thing, the smell is great, it is intoxicating. When my youngest daughter would come over, she would comment about the smell as well. I was pretty much smelling it all day, even when the clothes came out of the dryer and I would hang them in the closet, there was the smell. One of the side effects for women is growing excessive body hair, and sure enough that is what happened. I told him he needed to get off of that, it was dangerous. He did, the aggressiveness went away, only to make him a cry baby. I couldn't even look at him the wrong way and there would be tears. I begged him to go back on it, because the crying stuff was really bad. He used it again for a short period, went back to the doctor, and then that was it for the Androgel. I was really afraid that I was going to wake up with a mustache. It wouldn't surprise me, if Ross was using this at the time of Cooper's death, the defense will go with Androgel use. No way do I believe it would make you kill someone, but it really messes with the hormones. And it is dangerous around pregnant women, and IMO dangerous, period.

 

[gngr~snap]

Is it possible Cooper had to die "now" because they were not going to be able to make rent the next month, and they needed the life insurance/donations?? Idk....I wouldn't be surprised to hear this man had a gambling problem on top of all of his other compulsive behaviors.

I was thinking something like gambling or *advertiser censored* online was how he charged $4000 on a credit card..

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Thank-you and Welcome My husband was given Androgel because he had, Low T, not for any other reason, like conception. I'm going to imagine it works for some men. The doctor was giving him the warning about being careful around me, and around children, our kids are grown, so that wasn't an issue. He became more aggressive, and there is a percentage of people that the drug can transfer on, I was one of the lucky people that this happened to. One thing, the smell is great, it is intoxicating. When my youngest daughter would come over, she would comment about the smell as well. I was pretty much smelling it all day, even when the clothes came out of the dryer and I would hang them in the closet, there was the smell. One of the side effects for women is growing excessive body hair, and sure enough that is what happened. I told him he needed to get off of that, it was dangerous. He did, the aggressiveness went away, only to make him a cry baby. I couldn't even look at him the wrong way and there would be tears. I begged him to go back on it, because the crying stuff was really bad. He used it again for a short period, went back to the doctor, and then that was it for the Androgel. I was really afraid that I was going to wake up with a mustache. It wouldn't surprise me, if Ross was using this at the time of Cooper's death, the defense will go with Androgel use. No way do I believe it would make you kill someone, but it really messes with the hormones. And it is dangerous around pregnant women, and IMO dangerous, period.

Yeah it is some pretty potent stuff. I always think Clomid is a much better option bc it works in a different way to increase T- it keeps the FSH and LH (follicular stimulating hormone and leutanizing hormone) stable.

Some guys even can have vision changes bc the pituitary gland (right near the optic nerve) can swell if the dosage is wrong or they don't tolerate the drugs well. Scary!


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[PaperDoll]

Just me, but there is no way on God's Green Earth that I would be able to sit and have a manicure or go clothes shopping if my toddler son died such a horrible, tormented death at the hands of my husband. I would simply be unable to participate with the world in general for weeks. I would have to take to my bed. Going to the funeral might be the most exhausting and last activity I would do for many weeks. I certainly would not be up to being a presenter. I find her behavior very odd. Like I said, JMO.

Yup, I agree, I also would be ANGRY with my husband, devastated, emotionally drained, sad and all the other crummy emotions a person doesn't want to feel.. If I were in LH shoes, not only did I lose my child (by the hands of my husband), but I would now be going through a divorce, the death of my child, all the press hounding me, I don't think I would be visiting my husband anytime soon because I would be so crushed... So, that is how I would react if I were in LH's shoes. ANGER would be at the top of my emotional list!

 

[cady]

I just looked for and found Leanna's you tube comment. I appears to me that it was written 3 years ago, not 2. That would have been in 2011. Just correcting because up page I responded to a poster who said it was 2 years ago which was when (in summer) Cooper was born. JMO

 

[KristinSchmistin]

[modsnip]

The amounts they had seem like one of those work policies- I have one for myself that is like a dollar a month and provides 60k - and if something happens to kid(s) I have a rider on it for 10k - just enough to cover expenses in the event (god forbid) something happen to one of them. Gah. I hate talking about that stuff.

I would be more suspicious if the amount insured for was like 100k +

25k won't do much. But the could be just that stupid. JRH does seem to be quite a dim bulb. :moo?:


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[RANCH]

Well if this is true, it is damning for sure. But... it's possible this is just his landlord as the article states. I think it is more likely that JRH and LH obtained life insurance through work. Do we know details about the policies?

It would be nice to know if Mr Saini actually sold the, what I feel, unnecessary life insurance policy. He may have nothing to do with it. JMO.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Yup, I agree, I also would be ANGRY with my husband, devastated, emotionally drained, sad and all the other crummy emotions a person doesn't want to feel.. If I were in LH shoes, not only did I lose my child (by the hands of my husband), but I would now be going through a divorce, the death of my child, all the press hounding me, I don't think I would be visiting my husband anytime soon because I would be so crushed... So, that is how I would react if I were in LH's shoes. ANGER would be at the top of my emotional list!

Absolutely agree that I would now be filing for divorce action. He is at the very least a lying cheater. And now my child with him is gone. So no more reason to stick around. I would be all BYEFELICIA


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[tlcya]

the $2.000 policy was through HD, a not uncommon benefit offered by big corps. MOO

Haven't seen it reported yet where the $25,000 policy was purchased but do recall that while still in Alabama, I believe while RH was in college getting his degree, LH worked at Allstate Insurance.

ETA so mom appears to have had some experience with insurance and may have gotten the policy due to that prior work experience.

 

[leah]

Yeah it is some pretty potent stuff. I always think Clomid is a much better option bc it works in a different way to increase T- it keeps the FSH and LH (follicular stimulating hormone and leutanizing hormone) stable.

Some guys even can have vision changes bc the pituitary gland (right near the optic nerve) can swell if the dosage is wrong or they don't tolerate the drugs well. Scary!


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Even when the commercials come on for Androgel, I leave the room. I don't want either of us near that stuff again, but the smell is sure good LOL

 

[PaperDoll]

I just may need to give myself a time out from this case. I keep wavering back and forth on whether or not this was intentional or just a horrible tragic accident. I am still torn on LH and whether she was complicit. I don't know what to think or feel about it anymore but I can't stop imagining what little Cooper must have gone through.

What is the "clincher" for you? What has convinced you of RH guilt (or innocence)?

Guilty because it took less than a minute from the time he strapped him in his car seat, kissed him "goodbye" to forget to take Cooper to day care. Goes to work, backs the car up, gets into the parking spot, takes 30 seconds to get out of the car then goes into work. Then goes out to his car at lunch, looks in and tosses in the light bulbs, the on his way home from work he FINALLY realizes he forgets???? Plus his internet search on child free life, dogs and kids left in hot cars, plus the mere fact that I DON'T LIKE HIM! ok, that is not enough to convict him but I'm tossing it in there

 

[leah]

Didn't someone say the Harris' have a dog? Don't remember exactly where I read this, but if they do, maybe Ross called him to ask him to take the dog out? Plus tell his side of the story for sympathy.