GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #13

[LittleRose]

BBM. I think RH and LH had a pet dog as well. I have looked up the amount of time dogs can wait in cars with windows open because we bring our lap dog with us on errands sometimes, and the vet told me to look up temperature resistance by breed. I don't think this alone should mean that much. But that's probably because I'm guilty of doing it.

But it's not the search alone. For me, having your son die in a hot car, after you did the searchers and on the day you returned to the car at lunch has me convinced. Can you doubt that means he's guilty? Sure. But it's not reasonable doubt IMO. People have watched too many unscrupulous defense lawyers bamboozle on TV. Some have lost the forest through the razzle dazzle.


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[Bratislava]

Yup, I agree, I also would be ANGRY with my husband, devastated, emotionally drained, sad and all the other crummy emotions a person doesn't want to feel.. If I were in LH shoes, not only did I lose my child (by the hands of my husband), but I would now be going through a divorce, the death of my child, all the press hounding me, I don't think I would be visiting my husband anytime soon because I would be so crushed... So, that is how I would react if I were in LH's shoes. ANGER would be at the top of my emotional list!

Of course, all this is based on the assumption that we have information that enables us to imagine what it's like to be in LH's shoes. Unfortunately, our imaginations and empathy for little Cooper do not give us insight into LH's heart and mind.

It reminds me of people here in the states who ask my parents why they didn't dissent under communism when people were being jailed and churches were being destroyed. Many times people are so SURE they would have been the ones to stand for justice and freedom even if no one else was doing it. Well, actually, only a very few very courageous individuals risked their lives to speak out against the evils of the communist government. Everyone else just tried to buy good toys for their kids and keep their vacation days.

I know LH appears to be way too calm for our taste, given what we think we'd be feeling in her shoes. However, shy and reticent people do not throw public tantrums or act like they are on Geraldo. Instead, they tend to withdraw and nurse their wounds in private. One person's anger is demonstrated through punching or yelling while another person's anger is demonstrated by closing one's heart completely to the world. People are just very different.

Again, I've seen rape victims and battered women who acted like LH- and I wanted to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and scream, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THE CREEP? WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM?" What I didn't understand was the extent to which they saw their own survival and identity as bound up in the male's.

 

[human]

Maybe her lawyer is working pro bono. That's not uncommon in a high profile case like this. JMO.

Do you really think that is true?

Casey owed her team almost a million dollars.

Are there other cases that you know of where the lawyers worked for free?

They have to pay their staff out of their own pockets as well as pay for documents and who knows what else. Not free for the attorney

 

[cluciano63]

Super interesting info, Leah. Thank you for sharing.

Maybe her lawyer is working pro bono. That's not uncommon in a high profile case like this. JMO.

That is what I was thinking. I generally am not one who would not run for a lawyer if police want to question me, but this is an exceptional case...this woman needs legal advice, Imo.

 

[2anthro]

I was thinking about the smell, if a box of fresh strawberries were left that long at that temp, the smell of strawberries would be overwhelming in that small space. You would actually lower the windows to vent the intensity of that positive odor. An intense negative odor would have made you stay in the parking slot until you found out what it was and disposed of it.

I don't know how it'd be possible, but I wish his jury would have an opportunity to smell the intensity of what he smelled upon entering his car that afternoon. That would make the re-enactment complete, and remove all possibility of doubt, IMO. Hearing and sight might be argued to be partial, but the smell of a 4-hr dead body in a small, heated, enclosed space would be 100% inescapable.[/QUOTE]

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

If I'm innocent, I'm cooperating and talking to LE, NOT lawyering up!!!

Truthfully, I hope you're never in that situation, then. I'm honest to a fault and about as far from criminal as you could find on this planet...but would always lawyer up, as that's how the system 'works' best. I admire and value LE, but also know that things can be misconstrued and twisted in a serious case...your right to an atty is your protection against that--there's nothing shady about that; most people don't know all the nuances of how the law works. A friend of mine and her husband were interrogated by the FBI without representation...they felt the same way--if not guilty of anything, how could anything they shared to help LE hurt them?

He is currently serving time (though innocent) due to not having the wisdom to remain silent about what he 'knew' until AFTER retaining his atty. Without going into the details of his case, I'll just say this: innocent people DO get incarcerated with the understandably zealous prosecution of serious cases, and they might have avoided same with representation even as they tried to help LE.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I am surprised no one there used their phone to record what was happening.

I find that extremely odd in the days of cell record everything.
Maybe people out of respect for a little one decided not to record it.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It would be nice to know if Mr Saini actually sold the, what I feel, unnecessary life insurance policy. He may have nothing to do with it. JMO.

I remember reading that RH got the second ($25K) policy at the end of 2012, if that helps.

 

[Bratislava]

But it's not the search alone. For me, having your son die in a hot car, after you did the searchers and on the day you returned to the car at lunch has me convinced. Can you doubt that means he's guilty? Sure. But it's not reasonable doubt IMO. People have watched too many unscrupulous defense lawyers bamboozle on TV. Some have lost the forest through the razzle dazzle.


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BBM. I know there is a word for the fantastic figurative language you used here. I'm going to put it to my son later today. He's the house poet.

Maybe it's the fact that you used so many zzzzz's close together. Anyway, I like it. Even though this case is depressing and sad and hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

[CCmakes3]

the point I am making about the insurance is that mom once worked for an insurance company. IME people who have spent time working in that field may tend to be more conscientious about securing policies to cover their loved ones in case of catastrophic events. Not claiming she bought it in Bama or anything, just that while in Bama she worked in that field.

My husband used to sell insurance. Fwiw he always told his clients that life insurance on children/dependents was ridiculous and pointless. And if you're doing it to "save for college" there are better ways with much better returns. Just my/his professional opinion! (He is covered for $1 mil and I am covered for $500,000 and we have squat on the kids).

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think you are absolutely right. He imagined being allowed to accompany Cooper in the ambulance and the police wouldn't think of questioning him until later, probably while still at the hospital, obviously something else he didn't think through.

Yep, cops showing up quickly, baby bluish in color, eyes and mouth partly open, in full rigor, and an odor>>>>>>>>>>>threw a wrench in j's plan. Sick sob.

 

[RANCH]

Do you really think that is true?

Casey owed her team almost a million dollars.

Are there other cases that you know of where the lawyers worked for free?

They have to pay their staff out of their own pockets as well as pay for documents and who knows what else. Not free for the attorney

I don't know if it's true in this case but I think that it's possible for a lawyer to work pro bono in a high profile case for the name recognition that he will get via the media. JMO.

 

[LittleRose]

BBM. I know there is a word for the fantastic figurative language you used here. I'm going to put it to my son later today. He's the house poet.

Maybe it's the fact that you used so many zzzzz's close together. Anyway, I like it. Even though this case is depressing and sad and hard for me to wrap my head around.

I've lifted it from the musical Chicago. In the movie version, Richard Gere is the greasy defense attorney. It's all about muddying the water, so jurors can't see straight (like the tight fitting glove in the OJ case).

In this case, I worry about the juror who occasionally left her dog in the car to run an errand or two, or the married one who has sexted his ding dong at work, etc. They're so concerned about their own guilt or their, "but for the grace of God go I" moments, that they are unable to listen to the totality of the evidence against the accused.


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[Bratislava]

I've lifted it from the musical Chicago. In the movie version, Richard Gere is the greasy defense attorney. It's all about muddying the water, so jurors can't see straight (like the tight fitting glove in the OJ case).

In this case, I worry about the juror who occasionally left her dog in the car to run an errand or two, or the married one who has sexted his ding dong at work, etc. They're so concerned about their own guilt or their, "but for the grace of God go I" moments, that they are unable to listen to the totality of the evidence against the accused.


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I think it's a legitimate concern to have. It certainly humanizes the defendant.

 

[gngr~snap]

Maybe her lawyer is working pro bono. That's not uncommon in a high profile case like this. JMO.

http://www.11alive.com/videos/news/2014/06/19/11004343/

Attorneys Ed Garland and Lawrence Zimmerman discuss charges against a father whose son was left in a hot car.


She saw him on TV here in Atlanta. Right out of the gate he was pro vic Reynolds. She called him IMO.
Maybe pro bono?


Whoa! I just watched that again. He was on the states side. Interesting!

 

[vulture]

Doesn't matter whether you know them. I do

And I've done it two or three times in my lifetime (I'm 46). I'm normally a pretty good driver. I've never had a ticket for anything other than expired plates or a parking ticket. But that doesn't mean I never make mistakes, I was just lucky that the police didn't see mine.

 

[vulture]

In this case, I worry about the juror who occasionally left her dog in the car to run an errand or two, or the married one who has sexted his ding dong at work, etc. They're so concerned about their own guilt or their, "but for the grace of God go I" moments, that they are unable to listen to the totality of the evidence against the accused.

That's a good point, if morals keep declining and the pool of jurors available have done all kinds of bad things, who is going to have the guts to stand up and say I believe there is such a thing as right and wrong and I'm confident I know what it is?

 

[CCmakes3]

If I'm innocent, I'm cooperating and talking to LE, NOT lawyering up!!!

I'm doing BOTH, and letting my lawyer know in no uncertain terms that I want to cooperate with the police!

 

[popsicle]

And I've done it two or three times in my lifetime (I'm 46). I'm normally a pretty good driver. I've never had a ticket for anything other than expired plates or a parking ticket. But that doesn't mean I never make mistakes, I was just lucky that the police didn't see mine.

No, actually you are lucky you didn't kill anybody imo.

 

[Baznme]

I think it's a legitimate concern to have. It certainly humanizes the defendant.

You mean something like blaming your molesiting father for dumping the child in the woods after you finally admit that she accidentally died in the pool that day?