General Discussion #7

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Do we know that Raven was living with someone else during the break-up?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

A couple of other things I would like to know:

Is it certain that they would have been paying their own rent again starting in May?
Might it have been easier for Raven to be taken in for free as the victim of a crime than to admit his situation to someone (again?)? The reason I ask is this - one more thing he posted is sticking out to me - when posting about selling the VX and the Ducati, he said something like he hopes they'll make it through this (referring to the financial hardships). And I thought - well why wouldn't they make it through it? Couldn't they ask family for help? And I wonder - how many times might they have asked for help before? And did people got tired of pumping money into someone that obviously wasn't learning how to be responsible?

Is it possible that Raven knew that the bottom was falling out and was too ashamed to admit that he needed help (once again?) and figured that he'd have to do something drastic in order to get help without admitting that he needed it?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

And how many of us would have taken out a second (or even a third) mortgage on our homes to give our children the money to attend their distraught sibling's murdered spouse's funeral? *raising hand* I wouldn't even have had to think twice - my *advertiser censored*s would have been at the bank first thing to get money for my kids to be there for their brother. They were at the bank anyway, setting up a memorial fund so why not?

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Can we add finances to the timeframe, not just when he started to embezzle from Eurosport, but things like free rent, when he says he is behind in car payments, the comments we heard that he was previously fired for suspected embezzlement (I think there was Cannon and one other company). We can add having to pay for car repairs, souping up his cars, posting his cars/ motorcycles for sale.... Do we have all of these details already in a single timeline?

On a side note, did we ever determine what happened to the pets after the murder?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?

Good observation. When I get back to the boards later with more time, I'll check the dates (if someone doesn't before then). I think it has something to do with that internal conflict that Raven was experiencing - knowing that he needed to sell some of his toys in order to support his family yet not wanting to give up any of his stuff. I think that he also told different things to different people based on what he wanted out of them - sympathy, admiration, etc.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

We can add having to pay for car repairs...

Speaking of this, I still want to know this about the car(s) in the shop on the night of the murder.

1) Were they in for necessary repairs or something that could have waited?

2) Were they brought in at appointed times or on the spur of the moment?

3) What were the cost of these repairs going to be? Was it something that was affordable and necessary to someone that couldn't even pay rent?

 

[Jenifred]

Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?

Nope, it makes no sense to anyone with their priorities in the right place. Raven cares only about himself--it seems that he's always put himself first. He doesn't like sacrificing the things he wants for the things he (and his family needs). Everybody remember when his account of when he bought his VX? He knew that the payments would be a stretch, yet he still bought it. (And weren't he and Janet just newlyweds? I couldn't imagine buying a $30,000+ car after just being married or even now!!).

I wouldn't be suprised if all of those add-ons to the car went on the credit cards--thus adding to the hole of debt he was digging himself into.

 

[juliagoulia]

And remember when the judge asked him why he embezzled all that money, his response was, "to pay off bills" (see this post) He failed to mention they were bills for his stupid toys! I really wonder if the judge would have been so lenient if he knew all the facts about what Raven was spending his money on.

 

[lauriej]

Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?

01/20/2005, 09:39 AM
NC_VX

99 Vx, Custom Black Paint, Lift, Tires, Must Sell
I fall into the Jobless statistics that CNN reads out these days. SHIZZZ.

..( "fell into the jobless statistics???umm, no raven, you were FIRED for stealing.)

I'm looking hard, but its really difficult to start over.

So, I am asking $13,000 O.B.O for my pride and joy.

This 1999 VX has just under 110,000 miles, had the timing belt recently replaced, has regular oil and tire rotations and has been carefully cared for wiht no mud slinging, just rock climbing and enjoying some fun West Virginia Dirt roads!

The body is in perfect shape with a custom very nice Black paint job. I recently installed the Cobra CB radio with Firewire Antenna, but I haven't hard wired it to the car yet (cause I don't know how). I also have run the wires for the trunk popper, but again, not wired.

What the VX has is tinting around all windows, clearcorners on turn signals, PIAA Fog Lights and Horn lights with Bright white bulbs on headlights. I feature the custom VX decal and mostly debadged body. The inside has the Extended seat for passanger and trunk box in the rear. I also have the Subwoofer Spare tire mount, but no aftermarket system or speakers installed.

Underneath this bad boy is a PV2 Muffler, OEM 912 springs, RS9000 shocks and a heafty 33in tires. The latest add on was the beefy STINKYFAB links that are painted Red.

Check out the pics in my gallery. This is one before the tint...

__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

..he posts again an hour later..

01/20/2005, 10:54 AM
NC_VX


Who knows... Maybe I'll be back on my feet real soon and will be able to keep the VX. So far, its the Durango that stays cause it fits the baby, lots of stuff and the dogs... Its the Acura cause its good on gas and professional if I'm working sales.... So the VX just doesn't fit. However, if it was up to me I'd keep the VX and the Durango. Who cares about Gas Mileage when I can tow the Durango when it breaks down!!!

............what a crybaby, here's a guy who is an unemployed loser, has a wife and newborn to support, and he's feeling sorry for himself that his "pride and joy" vx has to go........

..i wonder why though, that within an hr. of listing it, he changes his mind and says that maybe he'll be keeping it after all.......

..and if it wasn't 'up to him" to sell, whose idea was that ?

 

[lauriej]

02/15/2005, 10:42 AM
NC_VX

Let's Cut our Losses
Thanks for the words of wisdom RT. You are right on with what it takes to get the job and I've been practicing those models.

I am now working for an IT training company out of Raleigh, however I am not making near what I need to survive. I am still steadily interviewing for some higher paying jobs and one job I am in as a finalist.

I've decided that parting with the VX is going to be what I need to do. I am going to go to the complete lowest I can go to hopefully sell within 30 days as I am a few payments behind as of today and don't think I can catch up in my current state.

With that said, I am willing to part with this guy for an unbelievably low price of:
11,900.00

This includes all accessories and a VX that is truly unique! Anyone interested feel free to call at 919-593-4535
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

........the very same day............he lists his bike for sale:

02/15/2005, 10:45 AM

2001 Ducati 748 BiPosto
Its cherry red, in great shape. Has low miles. I am hoping to get 6,500 for it with two helmets, two sets of riding gear, some tank bags and gloves. It has a cover and some ducati touch up paint. Please let me know if you are interested...919-593-4535. My names Raven
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And remember when the judge asked him why he embezzled all that money, his response was, "to pay off bills" (see this post) He failed to mention they were bills for his stupid toys! I really wonder if the judge would have been so lenient if he knew all the facts about what Raven was spending his money on.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links Only Ple

"... Later, Barber asked Abaroa if there was a reason he stole the athletic shoes.

"No," Abaroa replied.

"What did you do with the money?" Barber asked.

"I repaired cars, paid bills," Abaroa said..."

Repaired or upgraded? And ironic that at least one car was in the shop on the night of Janet's murder. How many repairs did these cars need???

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Everybody remember when his account of when he bought his VX? He knew that the payments would be a stretch, yet he still bought it.

Because it's all about image to him. He didn't care what Janet thought, felt, wanted, needed ... opinions of strangers on the street meant more to him than those of the people that should have meant the most. Remember his embarassingly idiotic post about his new paint job. I'm frequently stunned by the fact that he just doesn't seem to realize what an *advertiser censored* he makes himself out to be:

03/23/2004, 10:29 AM
[url="http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/avatars/vx_white.gif"]http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...rs/vx_white.gif[/url]NC_VX http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...ser_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_31008", true);
Super VXer
99, Ironman VX, 1455
Chapel Hill, NC US
Member Since: Jun 2003
Posts: 200
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...utation_pos.gif


"THE RENEWED 1999 BLACK IRONMAN... My Baby!
Long awaited release of my new look! I get even more looks now, and I've only been sporting the new look for 24 hours. I stopped by an Isuzu dealership and they were paging everyone to come out and take a look (however, I am not a big fan of their mechanics, go figure) and I've had approval by a few girls who weren't sure if they liked it or not. I've still got some mechancil issues (some spelling issues too) and some more buffing to do, but I think it will all be worth it.

The big Question is, do I want to take it wheelin' now? Sure I do, but I'm gonna have to be very careful!!! Check out the StinkFab bent links I've got tucked under the rear wheels... The clearance looks awesome now!!!!

Let me know what you think!"

"Long awaited release of my new look"? Is he kidding? Who really gave a hoot besides him? His self-importance is nauseating.

I wouldn't be suprised if all of those add-ons to the car went on the credit cards--thus adding to the hole of debt he was digging himself into.

Nah, he used the funds from the embezzled merchandise to pay for those.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

..i wonder why though, that within an hr. of listing [the VX for sale], he changes his mind and says that maybe he'll be keeping it after all.......

Because of this mentality:

"I started off loving every minute of it. I bought a S2000, and my Ducati and decided I wanted a Jeep instead. I hadn't listed the VX ever, but I started making ... my wife drive it around since I traveled for work a lot. I dind't much care for the goofiness of the vehicle, like not having a trunk popper, hard to access rear seats, horrible rear view, sucky mileage.... I was looking at unloading it and realized I would have to take a sizeable loss to do that. I was STUCK with this freakin car..... BOOOM, one day I found this website. I only looked through it for about 30 minutes, mostly to see what "bad" stuff I could find about the car to add to my frustration with the huge loss I would take...

I hated loosing money on cars, but I felt I had this disease where I lost interest, like a severe form of ADHD for adults.... But this was my medicine. It is so exciting to look forward to modding my VX and meeting all the other owners.... IN a nutshell, I WILL NEVER EVER SELL MY VX.. In fact, got a little one on the way (Oct due date). By then I hope to have a DVD screen in the front and a drop down screen in the back.... Barney, here we come!!!!!!"

This is from the old post below but it was snipped so I can't tell all that went on in this post. What I do see is that he HATED this vehicle, couldn't stand that he was going to lose money on it. He even went to the VX site (he claims) to find out all of the bad stuff he could about the car, (what is THAT about - does anyone understand that part)? But when he saw the community that existed on the VX site, and the meets (parties), etc., he not only decided to keep that vehicle he hated (so much that he made Janet drive it because he couldn't stand it!!!!!) but he also decided to toss limitless money into it to make it the best. And somehow did a complete 180? From despising it to never ever intending to sell it? And in only a 30 minute visit to a website - wow, he's very solid in his opinions! We've discussed all of this before but the bottom line is that Raven is a chameleon. When he decides he wants to be a part of something, he does what he has to do to fit in. So was selling the VX EVER an option? Or did Raven think - Hmmm, without Janet, I lose one person ... without the VX, I lose this entire community?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Big Boy Toys

..and if it wasn't 'up to him" to sell, whose idea was that ?

Hmmm, interesting. :waitasec:

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Can we add finances to the timeframe, not just when he started to embezzle from Eurosport, but things like free rent, when he says he is behind in car payments, the comments we heard that he was previously fired for suspected embezzlement (I think there was Cannon and one other company). We can add having to pay for car repairs, souping up his cars, posting his cars/ motorcycles for sale.... Do we have all of these details already in a single timeline?

On a side note, did we ever determine what happened to the pets after the murder?

Hey RandG - I don't recall ever hearing about Raven working at a place called "Cannon"? Any insights into this? I know early on we were trying to sort out all the place that we KNEW Raven had worked, and the list was long! So I'm curious about "Cannon" and also if there were rumors of embezzlement there as well? Thanks in advance!

 

[Thinkoflaura]

You are right. It's so easy for me to forget how young she was, and probably had come from a sterling home where things like lying, stealing, cheating, doing drugs and the like wouldn't be recognized for some time anyway.

I grew up in a household like that. I was taught about goodness, not badness. I never knew a person who did truly bad things when I was growing up, not even anyone who separated from their spouse or drank alcohol. My religious background on my mother's side of the family is the same as Janet's and I was taught that people are good, period.
It was a big handicap for me as a young adult because I tended to believe what people said, and I never saw what older, more world- weary people did, such as chronic lying and bad actions.
Because I wasn't taught about the harsh realities of human behavior, I had to learn the hard way, by experiencing the pain of growing.
It's sad, but at least I lived through it, by sheer luck probably.
I found a wonderful man to share my life with after being on my own for a few years and learning through trial and error " The school of hard knocks", that all people aren't always nice or good.

I wish Janet had had the chance to make up her mind, free of the awesome responsibility of a baby on the way ( when she was pregnant with Kaiden and they got back together).
I wish she had made it past Raven and his shady family.

Again, please forgive me for not remembering what it's like to believe the best in all people. Some of this probably goes back to a period of my life that is hard to remember and bring to light.
I truly suffered when I learned or saw bad things about people I dated, was friends with, and especially in my case, older people my parents age whom I considered role models.
I was shy and quiet too, not athletic like Janet, but looked a great deal like her at that age.
I've never told this on the Internet before ( nor to many people in my life) but I think it's relevant and maybe explains my own sense of outrage.
One of the husbands among the good church- going couples I babysat for sexually assualted me when I was 18.

I couldn't tell my father, because those types of things were not discussed between he and I ever. I told my mother, and she thought the man who hurt me was such a fine Christian man that it took years for her to believe me. Actually, it took this " fine man" getting a friend of mine who was my age ( under 21) pregnant and leaving his wife and children for her to consider that her own daughter was telling the truth after all. Not because she thought I was a liar, because I wasn't and hadn't been, but because she could not wrap her mind around that kind of evil. It was all about her need to be in denial.

God bless Janet. Please forgive me.

Janet fell in love with Raven in college, away from their families. She probably had no idea of any negative things that existed in that family. Even after they were married, his family lives in Utah, California, Arizona ... did her path even cross much with theirs?

And remember too that Janet was a shy and quiet girl. She fell in love with this man that seemed larger than life, a man who by all accounts was a charming extrovert; he probably (at one point) made her feel so alive. And once he knew he had her hooked, that's when he probably began to isolate and control her. And once that begins to happen, there are so many psychological factors interacting with each other that it's often impossible for women to remove themselves from that situation. They're isolated (intentionally) to the point that they believe their controlling man when he tells them that no one else will want them, and begin to feel lucky that this man will have them when no one else will. Add a child or children to the mix, and it's virtually cementing the situation.

 

[LTUlegal]

Wow, TofLMy thoughts and prayers go out to you.

 

[terminatrixator]

TOL, thank you for sharing that with us.

I grew up with a different perspective of humans. My belief growing up was that people sucked and more were inherently evil than good. Raven thought he had it rough, well he doesn't know rough, he doesn't know what it's like to grow up dealing with gangs, violence and the brutality that I have seen in my life and growing up fighting to live, fighting for my life, fighting to make it home from school. I grew up surrounded by violence, crimes and death.

It took me until I was an adult to find out that there are people that DO NOT suck, that there are many people in this world that are good, loving, kind and gentle.

I am, I believe, one of the luckiest people in the world, that now daily, I get to meet, speak with, and call people my friends, like those from Websleuths, and those that do what they can to help Victims and spend their free time seeking justice for others.

However, I'm furious that I will NEVER get the chance to meet Janet because she was taken from this World because of a SENSELESS, CRUEL VISCIOUS PERSON. Janet could have been one more Good Person in my life, but that chance will never happen on this earth now.

I am touched by the things I have heard about Janet, and feel sad, that I will never get the chance to have the opportunity to let one more good person into my life.

Again, TOL thank you for sharing with us, and for all you do in seeking justice for others.

 

[lauriej]

Hey RandG - I don't recall ever hearing about Raven working at a place called "Cannon"? Any insights into this? I know early on we were trying to sort out all the place that we KNEW Raven had worked, and the list was long! So I'm curious about "Cannon" and also if there were rumors of embezzlement there as well? Thanks in advance!

..would "cannon" be the canyon bike shop that we've heard of ?

 

[lauriej]

..to trix and TOL..........

..your posts touched me beyond belief, the case of "it's always someone else, someone you've never heard of..................."

..i don't "know" either of you of course, and in lieu of posting an essay......................i have to commend both of you for your honesty on this board, i can't possibly imagine that it was easy,it's quite clear to me that janet could have been hiding what was really going on for years........

..i do have to smile though.........to come through what you have as such a fighter, a strong woman...............well done.