George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[corundogs]

Actually, we don't know that. We don't know where he was exactly when he said 'ok'. We don't know what direction he was walking to (was he walking back to his car)? We don't even really know where exactly he confronted TM. If there is evidence that proves he was not walking back to his car after saying ok, then I'll stand corrected.

Well considering that he continued the call 90 seconds (a poster yesterday timed it) after being told to not follow...he would have had plenty of time to get back to his car well before hanging up. Because we heard the chimes of his car and him starting to walk on the 911 call so we know when he got out. The 911 operator clearly noted it as well.

However, he was not found anywhere near his car...I believe 2+ minutes after hanging up...where TM was shot.

So he had well over 3 minutes to get back to his car after being told not to follow.

Yet he wasn't. Which means that the evidence tells me he was still out following and/or looking for TM.

I would like to think the words "tells me" and "leads me to believe" are the same as "IMO"...but in case they don't.

IMO of course!

 

[callyn]

Since that's not what I said happened, I don't know how to respond to that.

corundogs, could you give us a link to where you read about the actions you described in your post some time back? About GZ getting on TM's back and spreading his arms etc.? Not meaning this as snarky, I am just really curious about the timeline of that activity. tia

eta: I'm not sure of your wording in that post, going off my memory....

 

[cityslick]

I've seen the pictures, TM still looks very lean, in both pictures, not bulky. I've seen GZ, he looks bulky, even if I were to see him from chest up, he still has a bulky look :twocents: Sometimes pictures help you remember things especially when something is happening fast and you really can't get a good look at things, but maybe you remember something but a picture will help you even more. :twocents:

I'm not sure how you can determine how big someone else by just looking at that face shot with the hoodie. The football shot of TM is not what TM looked like when he died, that is a very young shot. These are the two photos this witness is basing her size testimony on.

We're not even getting into the fact that this particular testimony (how big and small they were) didn't come up from this witness until now.

 

[m00c0w]

I've seen the pictures, TM still looks very lean, in both pictures, not bulky. I've seen GZ, he looks bulky, even if I were to see him from chest up, he still has a bulky look :twocents: Sometimes pictures help you remember things especially when something is happening fast and you really can't get a good look at things, but maybe you remember something but a picture will help you even more. :twocents:

The issue is that the witness is basing the larger/smaller person off of a photograph of Martin from when he was 13. She specifically said that she used the football photo as the comparison because it showed the entire body. Using a photograph of a 13-year old to make an assessment about the size of a 17-year old is completely disingenuous. Of course, she probably didn't know he was 13 in the photo. But that still thoroughly impeaches her testimony, imo.

 

[m00c0w]

corundogs, could you give us a link to where you read about the actions you described in your post some time back? About GZ getting on TM's back and spreading his arms etc.? Not meaning this as snarky, I am just really curious about the timeline of that activity. tia

eta: I'm not sure of your wording in that post, going off my memory....

It was from Zimmerman's written statement to police.

 

[corundogs]

corundogs, could you give us a link to where you read about the actions you described in your post some time back? About GZ getting on TM's back and spreading his arms etc.? Not meaning this as snarky, I am just really curious about the timeline of that activity. tia

eta: I'm not sure of your wording in that post, going off my memory....

I posted it a bit upthread...but here it is again.



nope this is what he said the night of the shooting

"“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rms-and-hands/

 

[DIBSY]

She said this? I thought she saw the struggle, turned away and heard the shot, and then didn't see them again until after the shot

Yes, she did. TM was already dead.
Is heartbreaking that one of TM's cries was a pitiful " yelp."She said the cries were from A Boy and not from the other confrontational manly voice.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But I thought you said he wasn't following him?

IMO he was not following him. He was looking for him. To see if he could give the Police a heads up. That is not the same as following.

If TM had just been walking home and had not stopped, Even if GZ was walking around he never would have found him because TM would have been home by then.

 

[Karmady]

The 12 year old was Tracy Martin's girlfriend's son. Trayvon was getting the Skittles for him.

Thanks. Someone already straightened me out on that. He testified that he was 15 yesterday or the day before, so that was confusing.

 

[Boodles]

Which is okay and legal. He did nothing wrong here. Not legally or morally.

...as is walking in the rain. (IMO)

 

[gxm]

What is the state doing??

What horrible preparation of their witnesses.

IMO, the state has tried to fabricate a case absent of evidence. This is what overreaching has wrought.

 

[whoanellie]

Actually, we don't know that. We don't know where he was exactly when he said 'ok'. We don't know what direction he was walking to (was he walking back to his car)? We don't even really know where exactly he confronted TM. If there is evidence that proves he was not walking back to his car after saying ok, then I'll stand corrected.

Doesn't he say OK a few seconds after one can hear his truck door chime. That indicates he was right by his truck when he said OK and he moved farther away from his truck after he hung up.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

...as is walking in the rain. (IMO)

Absolutely. He had a right to walk in the rain if he so chose.

 

[DIBSY]

Jeannine Manalo heard a ' howling noise." Then she heard a cry for help.

 

[m00c0w]

Doesn't he say OK a few seconds after one can hear his truck door chime. That indicates he was right by his truck when he said OK and he moved farther away from his truck after he hung up.

Maybe in NBC's edited versions...

 

[cityslick]

Yes, she did. TM was already dead.
Is heartbreaking that one of TM's cries was a pitiful " yelp."She said the cries were from A Boy and not from the other confrontational manly voice.

I'm not trying to be annoying about this, but do you have evidence to what exactly TM's voice sounded like at 17? Did it sound like a boy? Further, I've heard GZ's voice and while adult sounding, I don't know if I would describe it as a 'manly' voice.

 

[iluvmua]

Stiil waiting for evidence that shows me George did not shoot Trayvon in self defense.

Ok, State you said in your opening statement" George wanted to shoot Trayvon"

Now show me some hard evidence that he did.......

JMO

 

[PaperDoll]

I'm not sure how you can determine how big someone else by just looking at that face shot with the hoodie. The football shot of TM is not what TM looked like when he died, that is a very young shot. These are the two photos this witness is basing her size testimony on.

We're not even getting into the fact that this particular testimony (how big and small they were) didn't come up from this witness until now.

If it's the face shot of him in the hoodie, there are some that show his upper body, in that you can tell he isn't bulky, I"M not talking about height here, I'm talking about width.

This witness was interviewed by a lot of people and I'm sure each person had different questions to ask her, hard to remember everything you said or didn't say.

 

[sorrell skye]

I'm not sure how you can determine how big someone else by just looking at that face shot with the hoodie. The football shot of TM is not what TM looked like when he died, that is a very young shot. These are the two photos this witness is basing her size testimony on.

We're not even getting into the fact that this particular testimony (how big and small they were) didn't come up from this witness until now.

BBM

Good point.

If I was a juror, I wouldn't give any weight to her claim of who she believed was bigger on the night of the killing.

IMO, she's not a credible eyewitness. It was dark, she was a distance away, she said she saw "shadows", and then after seeing a headshot of TM and another photo of him in the media (that was taken when he was much younger & smaller), she decided that GZ was the bigger of the two.

At the time that GZ shot TM, TM was older, taller, and bigger than he was in the photos she testified to having seen.

 

[Boodles]

Ok, here's a snip and link about what Tracy did the night Travyon was killed:

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/index.php?src=news&refno=4505&category=News

Tracy Martin and his girlfriend went to bed. But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house. Tracy called his nephew again, this time reaching him and learning that Trayvon wasn’t with him.

“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report. I let them know it hadn’t been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home. I told them we were supposed to be leaving that morning when we woke up. They asked me a few questions about him: date of birth, height, complexion, weight and they told me they would dispatch a unit. Five minutes later, she called me back and asked what was he last wearing. I gave them a description of the clothes that he had on last. She said a unit would be out.”

Heartbreaking...:tears: