George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[m00c0w]

Thank you. I'm getting frustrated by all the comments about how TM should have walked faster or gone straight back home. TM was not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Individuals say that if Zimmerman never got out of his car, this wouldn't have happened.

By that same logic, if Martin had just gone home, this wouldn't have happened.

You (not you, personally) can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[m00c0w]

No, in what we heard played in court.

15 is not what I would consider a "few".

 

[PaperDoll]

And common sense, and I believe LE recommendation, is that if you think you are being followed you are not supposed to go home.

If I was being watched, knowing I was completely innocent, and followed - since we do know for a fact that GZ said at one time he was following him and the evidence tells us that in fact, he was - I wouldn't go to my home either.

Don't know where I would go if I was on foot...I would probably try to hide. When I felt the guy wasn't following me anymore, I didn't see him or hear him...I would then eventually get out of my hiding spot and head home.

Do we know that isn't exactly what happened? Nope. Do we know that it is exactly what happened? Nope. But based on what I have heard, that is precisely what I think happened. And then they ran into each other, a confrontation happened and Trayvon ended up dead.


I agree. I walk my dogs all the time and if I "feel" I'm being followed, I never go to my house, I will walk near a populated area, once I feel I'm in the clear, I will then go home.

 

[cityslick]

Thank you. I'm getting frustrated by all the comments about how TM should have walked faster or gone straight back home. TM was not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree, but it conflicts with the narrative that TM was 'running scared'. If you are running scared, why still hang around the same general area of what scared you? If someone starts chasing you and you start running away, do you double back to the same area and just hang out then? Human instincts usually say no, even for a 17 year old.

 

[Karmady]

I don't know if you are trying to make a dig towards Mr. Martin for calling the police first. My son, who is incredibly responsible, has never touched a drug in his life, is a great kid, didn't come home the other night and when I called his phone it went to voicemail. The first thing I did after not being able to get in touch with him, was call the police! I don't find anything suspicious about Mr. Martin calling LE, they would have all the information regarding accidents etc...JMO and personal experience as a Mom.

I wasn't trying to make a dig. Those are Tracy's words in direct quotes.

To your point, though, Tracy specifically said that he called Juvenile Justice and the Sheriff's office to see if Trayvon had been picked up -- both calls. Not to see if he'd been in an accident. His words. Not mine.

 

[whoanellie]

What evidence is there that he didn't go straight home


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[m00c0w]

And common sense, and I believe LE recommendation, is that if you think you are being followed you are not supposed to go home.

If I was being watched, knowing I was completely innocent, and followed - since we do know for a fact that GZ said at one time he was following him and the evidence tells us that in fact, he was - I wouldn't go to my home either.

Don't know where I would go if I was on foot...I would probably try to hide. When I felt the guy wasn't following me anymore, I didn't see him or hear him...I would then eventually get out of my hiding spot and head home.

Do we know that isn't exactly what happened? Nope. Do we know that it is exactly what happened? Nope. But based on what I have heard, that is precisely what I think happened. And then they ran into each other, a confrontation happened and Trayvon ended up dead.


I agree. I walk my dogs all the time and if I "feel" I'm being followed, I never go to my house, I will walk near a populated area, once I feel I'm in the clear, I will then go home.

Would you call 911 if you felt so freaked out you didn't want to go home?

I would.

 

[JeannaT]

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

I don't think, if you have a deceased body in a courtyard of a large apartment complex you go "door to door" asking if anyone was missing - you'd have a melee on your hands. In my observation, when a person is found shot in an area like that, and the assailant doesn't know the person's identity, they remove the remains and then basically sit and wait for someone to be reported missing. If that doesn't occur soon, they run a news story about a body being found and a description - and probably at that time do more investigating at the apartment complex.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't know if you are trying to make a dig towards Mr. Martin for calling the police first. My son, who is incredibly responsible, has never touched a drug in his life, is a great kid, didn't come home the other night and when I called his phone it went to voicemail. The first thing I did after not being able to get in touch with him, was call the police! I don't find anything suspicious about Mr. Martin calling LE, they would have all the information regarding accidents etc...JMO and personal experience as a Mom.

If that is what his dad did then it just fact.

IMO, I would not have called Juvie first but directly phoned the police but he did what he did for whatever reason I am not going to question..

But it looks like that article is just a factual account.

 

[JeannaT]

Would you call 911 if you felt so freaked out you didn't want to go home?

I would.

In Trayvon's case, I don't think he would. He's been in trouble before, and would likely have the mindset of avoiding police contact especially if it was just a hunch thing.

 

[corundogs]

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

I will say, that report from Tracy does sound weird.

Cause Chad was at home, waiting for him to come back with his skittles. He had just hung up with him, saying he would be there in a minute (or whatever - that he was on his way home).

Now wouldn't Chad be wondering where the hell he was? Wouldn't he have seen all of the police activity just down the way???

I believe I read that Tracy and his girlfriend were out that night...Chad and Trayvon were home alone. Maybe Chad just went to bed and didn't see Tracy or his Mom that night after they got home to report anything weird?

I don't know, but it's strange...for sure. Nothing that makes me think anything illegal was going on, just seems strange. That's all. But life isn't a crime novel, all wrapped up in a bow at the end with answer to everything.

For a person like me, who likes things to "fit", it can be a bit torturous though! LOL!!

 

[mom23gr8kids]

I don't know if you are trying to make a dig towards Mr. Martin for calling the police first. My son, who is incredibly responsible, has never touched a drug in his life, is a great kid, didn't come home the other night and when I called his phone it went to voicemail. The first thing I did after not being able to get in touch with him, was call the police! I don't find anything suspicious about Mr. Martin calling LE, they would have all the information regarding accidents etc...JMO and personal experience as a Mom.

Not that he called the police but that their first call was to see if he'd been "picked up". He wasn't calling to see if there were accidents. That to me is just telling that his previous behavior gives the parents cause to think he could at some point be "picked up" or arrested.

I get calling about accidents, etc. That's what I said I would do by calling hospitals and then calling police to inquire. But what he did was (By his own statement) call to see if TM had been "picked up".

IMO if I truly think my kid would never get in trouble then there wouldn't be a reason to see if he/she had been "picked up".

 

[m00c0w]

What evidence is there that he didn't go straight home


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The fact that anyone (save for the elderly and infirm), at a slow walking pace, would have covered the ~250 feet necessary for him to be home before Zimmerman got off the phone with 911.

There were two minutes from when Zimmerman said "Oh, he's running" to the end of his call.

At 3.1mph being the average walking speed, we can do the math (multiply by 5280 and divide by 60) and determine that the average person walks approximately 272.8 feet in one minute. How did the two meet, if Zimmerman was still on the phone for an extra minute, and Martin had such a head start that he could have been home twice by then?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking"]Walking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Nymeria]

How does that point to shoddy police work and not that there were some unexplainable circumstances around the family's story?

There were several witnesses outside, the police were out there for hours (until at least 11 that night, based on the local news footage), and yet no one in the family seemingly noticed a massive crime scene.

YES, I mentioned it was weird the family did not notice.

I still want to know why no one knocked on their door *apparently*.

If you read my post again, I am asking if they did go door to door.

As for my comment on shoddy police work, I think at this point I am standing by it, that may change. Who knows?
Why no luminol on the sidewalk?
If his head had really been bounced of the cement and they did check it (for blood, skin fragments or GZs DNA), possibly none of this would be happening.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

I don't know if you are trying to make a dig towards Mr. Martin for calling the police first. My son, who is incredibly responsible, has never touched a drug in his life, is a great kid, didn't come home the other night and when I called his phone it went to voicemail. The first thing I did after not being able to get in touch with him, was call the police! I don't find anything suspicious about Mr. Martin calling LE, they would have all the information regarding accidents etc...JMO and personal experience as a Mom.

I was simply basing my opinion on his words. He said he called to see if he'd been "Picked up" not if he'd been in an accident.

I totally understand calling about accidents same as I said in my post I'd call hospitals. Making calls under the idea of accidents, etc total normal parental reaction. However IMO making a call to both JJD and PD to see if a child has been "picked up" tells me that his behavior has given them reason to believe that he could at some point be "picked up" or arrested.

 

[kimlynn]

BBM

Good point.

If I was a juror, I wouldn't give any weight to her claim of who she believed was bigger on the night of the killing.

IMO, she's not a credible eyewitness. It was dark, she was a distance away, she said she saw "shadows", and then after seeing a headshot of TM and another photo of him in the media (that was taken when he was much younger & smaller), she decided that GZ was the bigger of the two.

At the time that GZ shot TM, TM was older, taller, and bigger than he was in the photos she testified to having seen.

She said she saw the picture of Trayvon wearing the hoodie.Was that not a recent photo of TM?
She later after more questioning said she also saw the football pic of TM.
No matter which picture she is using to make her claim that the larger person was on top,it is obvious that GZ was larger in width of shoulders and bulk than Trayvon.IMO
GZ at one point said he WAS on top of TM after the shooting and she did say that when she saw the shadows it was after hearing the shot.
IMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

What evidence is there that he didn't go straight home


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The fight between him and GZ

 

[AngelWings444]

I wasn't trying to make a dig. Those are Tracy's words in direct quotes.

To your point, though, Tracy specifically said that he called Juvenile Justice and the Sheriff's office to see if Trayvon had been picked up -- both calls. Not to see if he'd been in an accident. His words. Not mine.

I called the police to see if there were any accidents AND to see if my son was arrested. Again, my son is very responsible, has never been in trouble, but this is what I did as a Mom looking for her child, in full panic mode. Trayvon was a juvenile, so of course his father called there too. Mr. Martin did the right thing.

ETA: My son was not arrested. His girlfriends father passed away in the middle of the night. :cry:

 

[ncgramma]

Yes, it has a boyish quality to it.
But it is kind of like it could probably sound high pitched in times when he is animated, possibly deeper in normal speech...

I posted a Youtube vid yesterday but I think I was not supposed to.
If you want to see it go to YT and search for "Trayvons cell phone video".

He was video taping some guys fighting over a bike on his phone, and he is apparently the person "narrating".

News video which includes a sample of Trayvon's voice. This is the voice sample that the "experts" used in their attempts to identify who might have been calling for help.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/07/trayvon-martin-voice-audio-abc_n_3403994.html

 

[Bernina]

I think there are a couple of reasons for this, especially if one followed the JA trial closely. This is not a 1st degree murder trial, the story itself is not 'sensationalized' (what I mean is it's not like GZ killed TM then when galivanting around the country or hung out at the club afterwards). Lastly, GZ isn't your typical defendent like a JA or even Casey Anthony. I don't think there is a ton of 'dislike' for GZ, even for those that think he's guilty. I think a majority of people don't think he purposely wanted to kill TM in cold blood, it's just something that escalated to the point that someone died.

Believe or not, most trials are boring.

What I've seen, and I can't catch the early morning being Az, out doing critter stuff, and playing catch up on You Tube, the Pros doesn't have that "flow" that JM had when he was presenting the case in chief. The visual aids aren't that visible and the court itself is dark and cramped.
The Def is kinda annoying, again, like Nurmi. Only this Def is vacillating between lawyer and bad stand up comedian.