George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes, she did. TM was already dead.
Is heartbreaking that one of TM's cries was a pitiful " yelp."She said the cries were from A Boy and not from the other confrontational manly voice.

IMO she has no basis for this conclusion. She had no idea what the man sounded like..

Look at Mike Tyson.. HUGE guy.. little voice.

 

[callyn]

It was from Zimmerman's written statement to police.

Is there a link to where I can read that written statement? corundog's link won't open for me. TIA

 

[nnglas]

IMO he was not following him. He was looking for him. To see if he could give the Police a heads up. That is not the same as following.

If TM had just been walking home and had not stopped, Even if GZ was walking around he never would have found him because TM would have been home by then.

Ok I am going back to lurking after this because I just can't with you. GZ said he was following TM, that is not an opinion it is a fact. GZ said it, look at the walkthrough, or the NEN call he answered in the affirmative when asked if he was following TM.


IMO TM had no duty to go straight home. You say GZ wasn't breaking the law and I agree. However, TM wasn't breaking the law either.

 

[Nymeria]

Ok, here's a snip and link about what Tracy did the night Travyon was killed:

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/index.php?src=news&refno=4505&category=News

Tracy Martin and his girlfriend went to bed. But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house. Tracy called his nephew again, this time reaching him and learning that Trayvon wasn’t with him.

“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report. I let them know it hadn’t been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home. I told them we were supposed to be leaving that morning when we woke up. They asked me a few questions about him: date of birth, height, complexion, weight and they told me they would dispatch a unit. Five minutes later, she called me back and asked what was he last wearing. I gave them a description of the clothes that he had on last. She said a unit would be out.”

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

 

[m00c0w]

Is there a link to where I can read that written statement? corundog's link won't open for me. TIA

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/22/us/21george-zimmerman-transcript.html?_r=0

 

[cityslick]

If it's the face shot of him in the hoodie, there are some that show his upper body, in that you can tell he isn't bulky, I"M not talking about height here, I'm talking about width.

This witness was interviewed by a lot of people and I'm sure each person had different questions to ask her, hard to remember everything you said or didn't say.

Well, initially she said she saw shadows.

 

[m00c0w]

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

How does that point to shoddy police work and not that there were some unexplainable circumstances around the family's story?

There were several witnesses outside, the police were out there for hours (until at least 11 that night, based on the local news footage), and yet no one in the family seemingly noticed a massive crime scene.

 

[DIBSY]

I'm not trying to be annoying about this, but do you have evidence to what exactly TM's voice sounded like at 17? Did it sound like a boy? Further, I've heard GZ's voice and while adult sounding, I don't know if I would describe it as a 'manly' voice.

No worries, the witness Jayne S. declared that the cries for help came from a boy. No I am not familiar with the voices of the victim or the killer.
Thanks loads for describing GZ's voice as " adult"...which of course in anger would likely sound harsh when pursuing TM with a loaded fire arm.

 

[Irisha]

You apparently did not read the comment I was responding to.... MeeBee was commenting on the frame of mind of TM and GZ - I was responding to her question of "What COULD he possibly be up to?"

I read it that what could GZ have been suspicious of? I actually thought it might be a sarcastic question - walking in dark, in rain, recent crime wave, etc. etc.

JMO

OOPS, I thought MeeBee was a male.

Carry on.............

 

[Karmady]

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

Idk for a fact, but based on some of the witnesses they interviewed, it seems like they did knock on some doors. I don't think anyone has asked that question. Maybe when we get to the LE who were taking the statements. It's all very strange imo, too.

 

[PaperDoll]

Well, initially she said she saw shadows.

I understand, but I would think it would be more like "silhouette". There were no lights to make a shadow from my understanding

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Ok, here's a snip and link about what Tracy did the night Travyon was killed:

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/index.php?src=news&refno=4505&category=News

Tracy Martin and his girlfriend went to bed. But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house. Tracy called his nephew again, this time reaching him and learning that Trayvon wasn’t with him.

“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report. I let them know it hadn’t been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home. I told them we were supposed to be leaving that morning when we woke up. They asked me a few questions about him: date of birth, height, complexion, weight and they told me they would dispatch a unit. Five minutes later, she called me back and asked what was he last wearing. I gave them a description of the clothes that he had on last. She said a unit would be out.”

But to me something that is very telling in this statement:

His family portrayed him as this innocent, nice kid, etc. But why then would you call JJD and PD looking for him first? I have a 14 year old who has never been in trouble. If she didn't come home one night it would never occur to me to call the JJD looking for her. I might call hospitals and then call PD to make report but it would never cross my mind to call LE to see if she'd been picked up.

To me that is very telling of TM's day to day behavior. JMO

 

[jojomonkey]

Ok I am going back to lurking after this because I just can't with you. GZ said he was following TM, that is not an opinion it is a fact. GZ said it, look at the walkthrough, or the NEN call he answered in the affirmative when asked if he was following TM.


IMO TM had no duty to go straight home. You say GZ wasn't breaking the law and I agree. However, TM wasn't breaking the law either.

Thank you. I'm getting frustrated by all the comments about how TM should have walked faster or gone straight back home. TM was not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[AngelWings444]

Ok, here's a snip and link about what Tracy did the night Travyon was killed:

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/index.php?src=news&refno=4505&category=News

Tracy Martin and his girlfriend went to bed. But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house. Tracy called his nephew again, this time reaching him and learning that Trayvon wasn’t with him.

“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report. I let them know it hadn’t been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home. I told them we were supposed to be leaving that morning when we woke up. They asked me a few questions about him: date of birth, height, complexion, weight and they told me they would dispatch a unit. Five minutes later, she called me back and asked what was he last wearing. I gave them a description of the clothes that he had on last. She said a unit would be out.”

I don't know if you are trying to make a dig towards Mr. Martin for calling the police first. My son, who is incredibly responsible, has never touched a drug in his life, is a great kid, didn't come home the other night and when I called his phone it went to voicemail. The first thing I did after not being able to get in touch with him, was call the police! I don't find anything suspicious about Mr. Martin calling LE, they would have all the information regarding accidents etc...JMO and personal experience as a Mom.

 

[corundogs]

IMO he was not following him. He was looking for him. To see if he could give the Police a heads up. That is not the same as following.

If TM had just been walking home and had not stopped, Even if GZ was walking around he never would have found him because TM would have been home by then.

And common sense, and I believe LE recommendation, is that if you think you are being followed you are not supposed to go home.

If I was being watched, knowing I was completely innocent, and followed - since we do know for a fact that GZ said at one time he was following him and the evidence tells us that in fact, he was - I wouldn't go to my home either.

Don't know where I would go if I was on foot...I would probably try to hide. When I felt the guy wasn't following me anymore, I didn't see him or hear him...I would then eventually get out of my hiding spot and head home.

Do we know that isn't exactly what happened? Nope. Do we know that it is exactly what happened? Nope. But based on what I have heard, that is precisely what I think happened. And then they ran into each other, a confrontation happened and Trayvon ended up dead.

If in a car, I would drive to a police station if I knew where one was...or to a heavily populated area (Walmart if nothing else!).

I will also say, adding in my opinion, that young black males are rightly or wrongly, already behind the 8 ball in their minds. They know they are targets for too many people - of authority and otherwise. It's a fact that we can't change no matter how much we may not like it. That's how I believe a good number - if not most - feel.

And that IMO, plays into this scenario. A young black male won't call 911 automatically. Based on what I know. They don't trust them - I do believe a lot of them think they will not be believed and that they might in fact end up in custody...even if they did NOTHING wrong!

Race is part of this case. And not just from George's side. We have to bring TM's thought process into the equation. Even if we can't know it for sure...it's a very big possibility that these things were in Trayvon's head that night.

 

[Nymeria]

I'm not trying to be annoying about this, but do you have evidence to what exactly TM's voice sounded like at 17? Did it sound like a boy? Further, I've heard GZ's voice and while adult sounding, I don't know if I would describe it as a 'manly' voice.

Yes, it has a boyish quality to it.
But it is kind of like it could probably sound high pitched in times when he is animated, possibly deeper in normal speech...

I posted a Youtube vid yesterday but I think I was not supposed to.
If you want to see it go to YT and search for "Trayvons cell phone video".

He was video taping some guys fighting over a bike on his phone, and he is apparently the person "narrating".

 

[m00c0w]

No worries, the witness Jayne S. declared that the cries for help came from a boy. No I am not familiar with the voices of the victim or the killer.
Thanks loads for describing GZ's voice as " adult"...which of course in anger would likely sound harsh when pursuing TM with a loaded fire arm.

Carrying a gun has an impact on the depth/tone/octave of your voice?

I'd have never known.

 

[iluvmua]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

According to this article, Trayvon was the one who spoke first.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

 

[corundogs]

Maybe in NBC's edited versions...

No, in what we heard played in court.

 

[DIBSY]

*IMO*

This is all very strange.

Why did the LE not go door to door asking if anyone knew TM?
Did they not go door to door looking for witnesses?
Wouldn't they have knocked on the door of the place TM was staying (only 70 yards away)?
Why did TMs family not see all the police activity going on?
Did TM have no ID on his person?

This is sad, more and more it seems like some shoddy police work.

*IMO*

Too true!! For likely the same reason they didn't initially do more investigating.
TM had just turned 17 and did not have any sort of ID on him.