Gun Control Debate #3

[Alfie]

Raising the age from 18 to 21 is a very reasonable request. Let's raise everything to 21.

After all, the frontal lobe development doesn't take hold until humans are in their early 20s. The frontal lobe is where the critical decisions/thinking happen, in case you dislike science.

 

[RANCH]

None of you are accounting on ricochets. My school was built with a brick and concrete walls. A nervous teacher, although trained, tries to take a shot at the shooter but ended up killing an innocent student or three because the bullet ricochets. Ever think about that? Ofc not.

We better not let police shoot in schools because of possible ricochets then. That leaves the only one shooting is the deranged shooter who is intent on killing innocent children.

Sorry I can't agree with that.

 

[Tricia]

Please remember if you state a fact, especially a statistical fact, you will need to provide a link to a source that backs up what you are saying. If you don't do this your post will be removed

 

[RANCH]

What were the reasons suicide increased in Australia? Do the same factors come into play in the USA?

And how does that disprove more guns (or easier access to guns) does NOT lead to more suicide?

Don't know.

All I know is that the gun confiscation programs in Australia hasn't caused a drastic drop in suicides. JMO

 

[Alfie]

We better not let police shoot in schools because of possible ricochets then. That leaves the only one shooting is the deranged shooter who is intent on killing innocent children.

Sorry I can't agree with that.

Don't grandstand. It serves nothing.

Let's keep those guns outta their hands. Like, we don't need assault rifles for any reasons whatsoever. Make them illegal. Consficate them. Secondly, we need to expand mental services, particularly on young males. Young white males.

 

[bobcat]

None of you are accounting on ricochets. My school was built with a brick and concrete walls. A nervous teacher, although trained, tries to take a shot at the shooter but ended up killing an innocent student or three because the bullet ricochets. Ever think about that? Ofc not.

Hollow point bullets aren't going to ricochet. At least not with any speed left in them.

 

[bobcat]

Raising the age from 18 to 21 is a very reasonable request. Let's raise everything to 21.

After all, the frontal lobe development doesn't take hold until humans are in their early 20s. The frontal lobe is where the critical decisions/thinking happen, in case you dislike science.

I'd be good with that as long as you're including voting as well.

 

[Alfie]

Hollow point bullets aren't going to ricochet. At least not with any speed left in them.

This is just alarming. "use hollow points, they won't ricochet!" They even studied firearms for efficiency, huh?

And who knows what kinda bullets the next shooter will use??

I'd be good with that as long as you're including voting as well.

Uh, yeah, that's what I meant by everything.

 

[bluesneakers]

Don't know.

All I know is that the gun confiscation programs in Australia hasn't caused a drastic drop in suicides. JMO

The study you linked to was from 2015. The gun confiscation was in 1996. When did the suicide rates begin increasing? I'm just not sure how you're tying their gun laws to the increase in suicides.

IMO the increase would be even more drastic if they had easier access to guns, like we do here.

 

[RANCH]

Hollow point bullets aren't going to ricochet. At least not with any speed left in them.

Maybe teachers could be restricted to using frangible bullets.

Most frangible bullets are subject to brittle failure upon striking a hard target. This mechanism has been used to minimize the tendency of malleable lead and copper bullets to ricochet from hard targets as large, cohesive particles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frangible_bullet

 

[RANCH]

The study you linked to was from 2015. The gun confiscation was in 1996. When did the suicide rates begin increasing? I'm just not sure how you're tying their gun laws to the increase in suicides.

IMO the increase would be even more drastic if they had easier access to guns, like we do here.

I think I've made myself clear why I posted the link. Feel free to do more research if you care to learn more. .

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I'd be good with that as long as you're including voting as well.

May as well add driving to the list.

 

[KaaBoom]

The founding fathers sure didn't make it very clear! It's literally one sentence isn't it? Open to interpretation.

And yet most people can't even fully comprehend that one sentence. Most people quote only half of the sentence. If you are interested, the history and the intent of it has been well documented.

History of the Second Amendment

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.

The Second Amendment & the Right to Bear Arms

 

[bluesneakers]

I think I've made myself clear why I posted the link. Feel free to do more research if you care to learn more. .

You were the one who linked to the article, and you haven't made yourself clear IMO.

Put simply: Does this mean you don't think access to guns increases the risk of suicide, despite numerous studies proving exactly that fact, just because the suicide rate in Australia has increased?

 

[bobcat]

This is just alarming. "use hollow points, they won't ricochet!" They even studied firearms for efficiency, huh?

And who knows what kinda bullets the next shooter will use??.

Not sure what you mean by "studied firearms for efficiency"???

Just kind of common knowledge about hollow point bullets. And we weren't talking about what a school shooter is using, but what a teacher might use. You said you'd be worried about a teacher shooting in the school due to ricochets. I said hollow points won't ricochet so no need to worry about that aspect.

 

[Springrain]

But what about the 18% hit rate that trained police officers attain in gunfights according to Springrain?

Can a teacher exceed that level in a classroom environment? Are most LE gunfights in similar situations that a teacher would face so that the comparison is valid?

Just so you all know, my source is the New York Police Department. "The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight."

https://www.myajc.com/blog/get-scho...yet-want-arm-teachers/mDBlhDtV6Na4wJVpeu58cM/

If the largest and one of the most highly trained police force in the US has these results, how can we expect a schoolteacher to have better results?

 

[kimlynn]

I'd be good with that as long as you're including voting as well.

I know it sounds funny considering where we are now,but has voting ever caused harm to anyone?
In other words voting is safe unlike some weapons on the market today.IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Just so you all know, my source is the New York Police Department. "The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight."

https://www.myajc.com/blog/get-scho...yet-want-arm-teachers/mDBlhDtV6Na4wJVpeu58cM/

If the largest and one of the most highly trained police force in the US has these results, how can we expect a schoolteacher to have better results?

We can't.

And who is going to study this? Imagine drills in which a suspect armed with a prop gun in a classroom and a teacher, armed with a prop gun, pretend to shoot each other in front of 30 hysterical schoolchildren. Or in the hallway filled with hysterical children. On the playground. In the cafeteria.

Although maybe the idea is just to give teachers guns and see what happens. Cross our fingers and hope for the best.

 

[kimlynn]

We can't.

And who is going to study this? Imagine drills in which a suspect armed with a prop gun in a classroom and a teacher, armed with a prop gun, pretend to shoot each other in front of 30 hysterical schoolchildren. Or in the hallway filled with hysterical children. On the playground. In the cafeteria.

Although maybe the idea is just to give teachers guns and see what happens. Cross our fingers and hope for the best.

And consider the time it would take to train these teachers. I'm not sure we have the time to waste. IMO

 

[RANCH]

Just so you all know, my source is the New York Police Department. "The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight."

https://www.myajc.com/blog/get-scho...yet-want-arm-teachers/mDBlhDtV6Na4wJVpeu58cM/

If the largest and one of the most highly trained police force in the US has these results, how can we expect a schoolteacher to have better results?

I wasn't disputing your number.