HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

[Hatfield]

If there was a fight things, sorry it's hard for me not to generalize when talking about this and Heather, could have been broken if the person fighting Heather was a trained fighter. Dental records wouldn't match any longer.

Though I'm really hoping that it is because they haven't tried to match dental records to hold off on public ID so things are easier at trial.

Its an interesting theory about a possible fight, although with the alleged known phone calls with SM saying he had broken up with TM and luring Heather out of her house, it seems Heather would have been more or less forced into a fight if there was one. So I am sure Heather did not voluntarily choose to be in such a fight. Does TM have any sort of MMA training or anyone she knows have this training?
It seems any kind of forced fight where the person dies would still be enough to have valid murder charges.

Its interesting about the alleged loud noises from that area. I dont seem to recall hearing about that. I do remember something about a pond area where some witness saw some suspicous people near a private pond or something like that. Not sure if the same thing as the noises.

I do like the 2nd idea though. This is something similar. Maybe LE is purposely not making the connection so that they dont give the DT more time to prepare a defense. Wondering if that sort of strategy has ever been used before. Where they finally ID the body closer to when trial is to start. Not sure LE would ever go that far, but its a possibility I suppose.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Its an interesting theory about a possible fight, although with the alleged known phone calls with SM saying he had broken up with TM and luring Heather out of her house, it seems Heather would have been more or less forced into a fight if there was one. So I am sure Heather did not voluntarily choose to be in such a fight. Does TM have any sort of MMA training or anyone she knows have this training?
It seems any kind of forced fight where the person dies would still be enough to have valid murder charges.

Its interesting about the alleged loud noises from that area. I dont seem to recall hearing about that. I do remember something about a pond area where some witness saw some suspicous people near a private pond or something like that. Not sure if the same thing as the noises.

I do like the 2nd idea though. This is something similar. Maybe LE is purposely not making the connection so that they dont give the DT more time to prepare a defense. Wondering if that sort of strategy has ever been used before. Where they finally ID the body closer to when trial is to start. Not sure LE would ever go that far, but its a possibility I suppose.

BBM:This is what I was thinking. LE lies to suspects all the time. While I believe it would be illegal for them to lie to counsel, would it be illegal to tell the media an exaggeration regarding how hard (or not hard) they were actually trying to ID the remains? And this is why the discovery was requested by SM's attorney. By the same token, why couldn't LE have the lab take it's time with the tests. Tests should go in the order received unless there is compelling reason to move them to the top of the list. If LE doesn't want them moved to the top of the list, no law says they have to do so.

I am not convinced this is the case here, but I'm open to possibilities.

 

[Montjoy]

I'm lost here. Surely a positive or negative identification of the remains does not hinge on whether Heather and one of the Moorers fought, physically, does it? Or does someone think that is the case? I believe that the decision to rule Heather out with respect to these remains had nothing to do with any forensic ambiguity that might have been caused by a fight.

 

[Mahouston69]

I think the question is what is perhaps preventing them from conclusively saying this is absolutely not or absolutely is Heather since they have Heathers dental information and the skull from.the remains..

 

[melodyl]

I'm lost here. Surely a positive or negative identification of the remains does not hinge on whether Heather and one of the Moorers fought, physically, does it? Or does someone think that is the case? I believe that the decision to rule Heather out with respect to these remains had nothing to do with any forensic ambiguity that might have been caused by a fight.

This is just speculation. See Hatfield's post up thread.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hatfield]

I'm lost here. Surely a positive or negative identification of the remains does not hinge on whether Heather and one of the Moorers fought, physically, does it? Or does someone think that is the case? I believe that the decision to rule Heather out with respect to these remains had nothing to do with any forensic ambiguity that might have been caused by a fight.

As others have said, we are just speculating of course. I believe the initial discussions kind of tied them together with the possibility that a fight MAY have caused the remains to be more difficult to identify. One example would be where certain teeth are missing (due to fight) that just so happened to be ones where dental work were done on.

Then i probably added more confusion by speculating that I wondered if LE may be not wanting to ID until closer to trial (if they highly suspect it is her anyway). The reasons for something like this would be to allow LE more time to prepare before allowing a positive ID since then the defense would start preparing as well once they know a body has been found and IDd. That of course is just speculation and I have never heard of anything like that being done in the past.

The way the Florida investigators have never seemed to finish their work on the ID of the body seems so strange to me. They seem to leave the possibility open, even though they said it is not likely to be her. That to me is not a definite answer yet. So we all have been wondering why it is taking so long to get to a definite answer.

Hope this helps.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions as well. It is an interesting discussion.

 

[Leomoon80]

Will the prosecution have anything to go to trial with for murder against these two without the body?

 

[Ghostwheel]

Will the prosecution have anything to go to trial with for murder against these two without the body?

They must have something, or a Grand Jury would not have determined criminal charges should be brought. There could be physical evidence of something belonging to Heather found at the Moorer house or in a vehicle: fingerprints, clothing, purse, cell phone, etc. There could be DNA evidence of some kind. The texts have already been shown, and are threatening in manner. The fact that Heather, who appeared to be a social media maven, suddenly stopped texting, posting and calling anyone, has not accessed her bank account and left her car abandoned at PTL are red light indicators that something has happened to her. That their truck was going to and from PTL within minutes of Heather's phone going dead is a big something.

Yeah, they have things to go to trial. Whether it will be enough for whomever is on the jury is a different story.

 

[MissUnderstood]

I think the question is what is perhaps preventing them from conclusively saying this is absolutely not or absolutely is Heather since they have Heathers dental information and the skull from.the remains..

This confuses me too. Wouldn't they say we have ruled HE out through dentals rather than say we are pretty sure it's not HE because of the age of remains!
It makes it quite cryptic!


MOO!!

 

[MissUnderstood]

I think the question is what is perhaps preventing them from conclusively saying this is absolutely not or absolutely is Heather since they have Heathers dental information and the skull from.the remains..

This confuses me too. Wouldn't they say we have ruled HE out through dentals rather than say we are pretty sure it's not HE because of the age of remains!
It makes it quite cryptic!


MOO!!

 

[EmmaRose]

IMO, I don't think the teeth were recovered. May be a reasonable explanation as to why there is not a dental match.

 

[Leomoon80]

They must have something, or a Grand Jury would not have determined criminal charges should be brought. There could be physical evidence of something belonging to Heather found at the Moorer house or in a vehicle: fingerprints, clothing, purse, cell phone, etc. There could be DNA evidence of some kind. The texts have already been shown, and are threatening in manner. The fact that Heather, who appeared to be a social media maven, suddenly stopped texting, posting and calling anyone, has not accessed her bank account and left her car abandoned at PTL are red light indicators that something has happened to her. That their truck was going to and from PTL within minutes of Heather's phone going dead is a big something.

Yeah, they have things to go to trial. Whether it will be enough for whomever is on the jury is a different story.

thanks.

As for her phone going dead, have they yet talked about the posts supposedly made by Heather on the morning of 12/18/13?

And what is PTL?

 

[Mahouston69]

And if she used Google maps on her phone...it shows point to point location history of where it's being used. Ex: if her phone made it to TM and SM house during that time period and was used from that location to post, or text it can be seen on a Google location history map if one has access...such as her father or law enforcement.

 

[ZooSleuth]

IMO, I don't think the teeth were recovered. May be a reasonable explanation as to why there is not a dental match.

I agree. Alfred Wright was missing teeth due to animal/insect activity and his remains were only out in the wild for about a month.

 

[Surfside]

And what is PTL?

Peachtree Landing.

 

[Ghostwheel]

thanks.

As for her phone going dead, have they yet talked about the posts supposedly made by Heather on the morning of 12/18/13?

And what is PTL?

The phone could have had the battery die or removed, been turned off, or been destroyed in some way (crushed, thrown in the water, what have you). The posts she made have not been confirmed to have been posted by phone, to my knowledge, nor has LE made mention of the contents of said posts. Talking about those posts are off limits here due to the site they were posted on. (see this post by Salem http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?238743-Heather-s-Social-Media&p=10360683#post10360683)

 

[Leomoon80]

Thanks Ghost & Surf - for the replies. Its hard to keep up on all these cases, and I missed that link entirely

 

[lilsleuth]

I noticed some new information tonight on NamUs concerning the remains found in Deland, FL. As of 3/6/15, the report has been updated... The remains are of a female between the ages of 18-25. I know there is a small possibility that it may be Heather.. but I thought I would still pass it along anyhow.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/12776

 

[EmmaRose]

Thank you for posting this. I have often wondered if this could be Heather. I noticed they modified this file only a few days ago. It is interesting to see under DNA that is still says tests not completed. I wish we had more information so we could rule in/out whether this is Heather. I was so hoping she would be located before trial begins. And I am still confused why a dental match cannot be made. It seems like they recovered a whole body.

ETA: Oops, this was in reply to Lilsleuth... Need my morning coffee!

 

[Surfside]

Also, with "all parts recovered," why can't they estimate height?