Heart Shaped Sticker And Duct Tape #3

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I don't think it's unusual for the scalp to be attached to the head - they've found thousands of years old bodies with the scalp with hair attached to the head - the blood dries and acts like an adhesive. As to the tape still in place, the water would have acted as a weight to keep it in place.
 
OK...gotta get that visual of JWG w/ his mouth duct taped :silenced: outta my head now...envisioning the excuse he woulda given to a passerby/family member. "[rrrrrriiiip] Uh, me? Oh, I'm just...doin' research...yeh, that's it...research" :D

:rotfl: Prolly had to use a Wescott ruler to pry it loose. :)

Thanks for the info, Bev. Beef jerky, eh? Won't be eating that anytime soon :rolleyes:
 
Bev said:
I don't think it's unusual for the scalp to be attached to the head - they've found thousands of years old bodies with the scalp with hair attached to the head - the blood dries and acts like an adhesive. As to the tape still in place, the water would have acted as a weight to keep it in place.
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Hi Be and JBJ, I also heard Dr Baden on Greta say there would ha*e been matter from the skin as it decomposed that was adhered to the sticky side of the duct tape, and would remain on that tape as e*idence.

Also IMO, with the tape remaining in that position for so long - 4 mos or so - getting wet from water, drying out, etc, and with that decomposing matter attached to the tape gi*ing it more substance, the tape would somewhat mold to the shape of the skeleton. E*en when cut away, I bet it still held the shape of the lower part of her face. xox
 
I think you're right, Scandi. I know the beef jerky is offputting, Bond, but that really is what it looks like. Now everytime you see beef jerky you'll think of this...
 
JWG said:
Thanks HD...once again I've read something and completely missed an important detail. :bang:

I think the reason that detail did not register is I was subconsciously asking the same question as Bond - how would hair still be on the skull, and how would duct tape stick to the skull.

As penance for missing the detail and needing HD to call me out, I duct-taped my mouth. :eek:

Observations:

I could not get it to stick to my wet teeth very well, and it did not stay on very long when my teeth were dry. Also, I needed a really big smile with teeth closed and applied very tight to get any traction. Lip and tongue movement got the tape off the teeth pretty easily.

Could gravity have assisted in keeping the tape in the skull? If the skull was undisturbed as the tissue between it and the skull decomposed, would the tape adhesive continuously reattach to whatever was left above it? That is, the part of the tape attached to the skull was underneath the skull. Example, tape on back of head resting on ground is where it is attached, and still covers mouth area but not strictly attached. :waitasec:
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oh wow... GO YOU! :)
 
scandi said:
Hi Be and JBJ, I also heard Dr Baden on Greta say there would ha*e been matter from the skin as it decomposed that was adhered to the sticky side of the duct tape, and would remain on that tape as e*idence.

Also IMO, with the tape remaining in that position for so long - 4 mos or so - getting wet from water, drying out, etc, and with that decomposing matter attached to the tape gi*ing it more substance, the tape would somewhat mold to the shape of the skeleton. E*en when cut away, I bet it still held the shape of the lower part of her face. xox
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Nice post, scandi. (btw..JBJ is my evil twin :) )

Now that you describe it...I can sorta envision dry-rotting in-situ.
 
Having been duct tape during a home invasion over my mouth and eyes I have tried to envision what caylee went through. For comparison purposes I was 22 yrs old , weight was 120 and I am 5'9" tall. My hair was to my shoulder blades and naturally curly. Caylee's hair still looked baby fine to me and it is hard for me to decide her face size compared to a 2-3 year old but lets assume her head is small. Following JWG's experiment with mouth movements it does loosen but when wrapped tightly around the whole head it only allows for you to breathe a little and the tape was also near my nose obstucting the ability to breathe through my nose. When my mouth was duct taped I made room to breath with my lips and tongue but my hair held it into place and I could not get it down to my chin until my hands were cut free from the bindings. Due to the amount of hair adhered to the duct tape the hospital staff had to cut it out. So in Caylee's case my theory is she was either (I hate typing this) knocked out and unable to use her hands to peel off the tape because I would think with baby fine hair the adhesion wouldn't be as strong and it is my feeling that her nose would be covered by the tape too or it was placed after death and in my opinion since the tape had to be cut from her hair it was placed tightly all the way around her head hence why it was still in the position over the mouth of the skull after decomposition.
 
As I'm choking on my breakfast because of you male W/S posters I have the question, "Would Caylees teeth still be attached, what amount of bones were strown, what amount of bones would have stayed intacked since it appears she was swaddled in a blanket and two other wrappings? Do teeth contain stored body chemicals componates as a hair shaft? Lead me to the thread discussing teeth if this has been answered.
 
kageykaren said:
As I'm choking on my breakfast because of you male W/S posters I have the question, "Would Caylees teeth still be attached, what amount of bones were strown, what amount of bones would have stayed intacked since it appears she was swaddled in a blanket and two other wrappings? Do teeth contain stored body chemicals componates as a hair shaft? Lead me to the thread discussing teeth if this has been answered.
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I think I remember hearing/reading that only 1 tooth was found in the bag and that others were found strewn about. :confused:
 
Sdavidson11 said:
Having been duct tape during a home invasion over my mouth and eyes I have tried to envision what caylee went through. For comparison purposes I was 22 yrs old , weight was 120 and I am 5'9" tall. My hair was to my shoulder blades and naturally curly. Caylee's hair still looked baby fine to me and it is hard for me to decide her face size compared to a 2-3 year old but lets assume her head is small. Following JWG's experiment with mouth movements it does loosen but when wrapped tightly around the whole head it only allows for you to breathe a little and the tape was also near my nose obstucting the ability to breathe through my nose. When my mouth was duct taped I made room to breath with my lips and tongue but my hair held it into place and I could not get it down to my chin until my hands were cut free from the bindings. Due to the amount of hair adhered to the duct tape the hospital staff had to cut it out. So in Caylee's case my theory is she was either (I hate typing this) knocked out and unable to use her hands to peel off the tape because I would think with baby fine hair the adhesion wouldn't be as strong and it is my feeling that her nose would be covered by the tape too or it was placed after death and in my opinion since the tape had to be cut from her hair it was placed tightly all the way around her head hence why it was still in the position over the mouth of the skull after decomposition.
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Sdavidson...geez-o-pete! :yow: :shocked2:

Thanks for sharing that account. Without prodding...I hope you were/are ok. :hug:
 
Hercule Poirot said:
I remember something like that and comments that "baby" teeth are not well rooted so would detach early on in decomposition.
Click to expand...

Actually, that is not true. Baby teeth at age 2 - 3 are very well rooted deep inside the upper and lower jaw of the skull. Teeth are not held in place by muscle, they are actually held in place by bone and then the gums secondarily. Baby teeth are as strongly held into place as adult teeth at age 2 - 3 because they have just finished coming in at this point. The roots of the baby teeth only begin resorb when the presence of an erupting permanent tooth causes them to. Typically the resorbtion, starts to occur around age 6 and continues to age 13. It is very significant that Caylee's baby teeth were found separated from the skull as that is not a normal part of decomposition. Even the skull of a child who died over 1000 years ago would normally have it's teeth in place. See this photo of a neaderthal child skull:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/notjake13/2394083200/

The coroner found no damage to the bones or skull to indicate manner of death, however. So we really don't know what the teeth separated from the skull mean, but the placement of the duct tape over the mouth might have something to do with it.
 
Sdavidson11 said:
Having been duct tape during a home invasion over my mouth and eyes I have tried to envision what caylee went through. For comparison purposes I was 22 yrs old , weight was 120 and I am 5'9" tall. My hair was to my shoulder blades and naturally curly. Caylee's hair still looked baby fine to me and it is hard for me to decide her face size compared to a 2-3 year old but lets assume her head is small. Following JWG's experiment with mouth movements it does loosen but when wrapped tightly around the whole head it only allows for you to breathe a little and the tape was also near my nose obstucting the ability to breathe through my nose. When my mouth was duct taped I made room to breath with my lips and tongue but my hair held it into place and I could not get it down to my chin until my hands were cut free from the bindings. Due to the amount of hair adhered to the duct tape the hospital staff had to cut it out. So in Caylee's case my theory is she was either (I hate typing this) knocked out and unable to use her hands to peel off the tape because I would think with baby fine hair the adhesion wouldn't be as strong and it is my feeling that her nose would be covered by the tape too or it was placed after death and in my opinion since the tape had to be cut from her hair it was placed tightly all the way around her head hence why it was still in the position over the mouth of the skull after decomposition.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing! I'm speechless after reading your own private accounts of a horrific crime. I'm so glad your here posting. This leaves me feeling that Caylees little tiny hands could not have saved her & she sufficated before a struggle I hope. :)
 
Just an observation... the latest doc dump suggests a single piece of silver duct tape was found on the mouth area of the skull. The tape did not circle around the skull. If Caylee were conscious and could move freely, she could have ripped it off. Narrows down the theory on whether she was conscious or not when the duct tape was affixed.
 
Princess Rose said:
Actually, that is not true. Baby teeth at age 2 - 3 are very well rooted deep inside the upper and lower jaw of the skull. Teeth are not held in place by muscle, they are actually held in place by bone and then the gums secondarily. Baby teeth are as strongly held into place as adult teeth at age 2 - 3 because they have just finished coming in at this point. The roots of the baby teeth only begin resorb when the presence of an erupting permanent tooth causes them to. Typically the resorbtion, starts to occur around age 6 and continues to age 13. It is very significant that Caylee's baby teeth were found separated from the skull as that is not a normal part of decomposition. Even the skull of a child who died over 1000 years ago would normally have it's teeth in place. See this photo of a neaderthal child skull:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/notjake13/2394083200/

The coroner found no damage to the bones or skull to indicate manner of death, however. So we really don't know what the teeth separated from the skull mean, but the placement of the duct tape over the mouth might have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Once again I am at a loss. I posted a page back that if the body were in 2 bags, and not much motion the tape would in my opinion, just settle to the skull. Also the duct tape would IMO keep the teeth in place, but they are not. So how would this occur? i have a different picture in my head I guess of what the skull looked like with the duct tape. Now I am wondering how the teeth became scattered.
 
I think Casey taped the chloroform-soaked rag to Caylee's nose and mouth area so she wouldn't have to hold it there herself.

It may have been an item of Caylee's clothing that was soaked and was found in the bag.
 
Bern said:
Once again I am at a loss. I posted a page back that if the body were in 2 bags, and not much motion the tape would in my opinion, just settle to the skull. Also the duct tape would IMO keep the teeth in place, but they are not. So how would this occur? i have a different picture in my head I guess of what the skull looked like with the duct tape. Now I am wondering how the teeth became scattered.
Click to expand...

This is pretty morbid, but without skin and muscles, there are all sort of crevices that those teeth could have fallen out of, they didn't have to come from the mouth area. They could have possibly fallen through the nasal cavity, or even an eye socket. Sorry to be so descriptive...
 
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