I can't find a hole in this theory...

[Chrishope]

It's not necessary to wait for a "break" in the case, because we already know more than enough to bring John Ramsey to trial. Regardless of whether you believe John did it or Patsy did or Burke did it, there is no longer any question of an intruder, this was an inside job, John was obviously very deeply involved, and a convincing circumstantial case can be made for him as both the molester and murderer of his daughter. See my most recent blog post for details: http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/

If in fact Patsy or Burke was actually the killer (which I very much doubt), then John would have the choice of sticking with his intruder defense and going on trial or making some sort of plea bargain in which he agrees to tell all in return for a relatively light sentence or even no sentence at all, due to the statute of limitations. To get off so lightly, however, he would need to provide either direct evidence or convincing eyewitness testimony and his version of what happened would need to be backed up by his son, Burke.

The problem is NOT the need for a break in the case, but the need for a break in the timid and in fact cowardly and morally questionable attitude of the Boulder County DA. Throwing up your hands and saying "Oh this case is much too complicated, totally intractable, we'll be wondering for years about what actually happened" is both absurd and unjustifiable. A criminal trial is not about "what actually happened" but "who actually committed the crime." Now that we know for sure, thanks in part to Kolar's book, that there was no intruder, there is no longer any excuse to give John Ramsey the benefit of the doubt. He must be arrested and made to face the consequences of his crimes.

The obvious parallel is to Jerry Sandusky, who was also coddled for years, because, after all, "who really knew what happened and isn't he such a nice guy."

I think the chance of a conviction is minimal. JR was "ruled out" and I think it will be hard to discredit the "experts". Not that I think the experts have much credibility, but the jury will. JR can blame it all on PR claiming he just helped in the coverup because he didn't want her to go to prison, and that's if the jury isn't buying the intruder theory, which I think they would.

Kolar's analysis of the dna may be convincing to those of us following the case, but a jury will still lap up the "intruder" theory, based on DNA. In fact giving them 5 or 6 samples of "artifact" dna will just confuse the situation all the more, and make them even less likely to find JR guilty.

He's also been "exonerated" and unfortunately that's stronger than being "unexonerated".

Even a confession won't put an end to it because as I said in an earlier post, JR could be covering for BR, or vice versa.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I strongly disagree, Chris. First of all, if even one of these "experts" relents, or claims his decision was misinterpreted, then John must be ruled back in. Secondly, John can be prosecuted for molestation/murder regardless of who wrote the note.

John could not easily claim Patsy killed JonBenet and he was only covering for her, that would NOT sit well with either a judge or jury for the simple reason that the most likely one in the house by far to have sexually assaulted the child was the only mature male: John. To get off, he'd have to offer substantial evidence and also a reasonable explanation for why a middle class housewife would sexually violate her dead child to cover for a head blow. He'd also need to get Burke to testify against his mother, and who knows how that would turn out.

As far as the DNA evidence is concerned, the prosecutor would have his work cut out for him, sure, especially since the Ramseys were "exonerated." But the prosecutor would call expert witnesses to testify as to the shaky nature of this "evidence" and the fact that similar DNA would likely be found at any crime scene, for all sorts of reasons.

A good prosecutor could easily make mincemeat out of the intruder theory in any case. All doors locked, no sign of forced breakin anywhere, including the basement window. No reason for any intruder to do all that was done. And a good prosecutor could easily make mincemeat of John's story about breaking the window earlier, pointing to all the obvious absurdities, finally calling Linda Hoffmann Pugh to the stand to deny knowledge of any broken window. Once it's clear he lied about that, then it's also clear he staged at that window, and once that's established then there'd be no reason to take any intruder theory seriously, DNA or no DNA.

The defense would certainly toss out every red herring they could think of, so it would not be a slam dunk by any means. But what murder case ever is? I don't see this case as any less prosecutable than many other cases in which a parent is accused of molesting or murdering a child. And I see no reason to believe there will ever be a better moment to prosecute than now.

DocG...putting our differences on side, I always respect your passion in this case. And above post is another proof of it. Regardless of any RDI scenario, would you agree that the MAIN GOAL for resolution/conviction should be to establish the legal 'roadmap' for the final destination: new GJ?

I must admit, years back, I wasn't paying much attention to the FW letter 'To the people of Colorado', 1998. Today, after reading Kolar's book (page 478), this letter gives me an idea on how this case could be moved forward. To me, FW letter is a clear 'roadmap' for the future legal approach. I'm not an expert in legal matters...but hope someone would correct me if I'm wrong. Here what I believe should be done.

1. Petition to the Court to review DA corruption by exposing AH and ML unlawful activities. Outcome: the annulment of Ramsey's 'clearing' and unseal the 'island of privacy' documents;

2. Based on the ruling from above, BPD and DA must call independent experts AGAIN to review the critical evidences (RN, DNA, fibers, AR, Ramsey's medical records);

3. Now, it's time to assemble new GJ.

Please, read FW letter again. I do believe in power of People. But our power should be legally supported. With pure emotions -we wouldn't achive much! We need a legal quidence....JMO

 

[midwest mama]

I don't know about no new evidence or new things to discuss coming out in the next 15 years. People involved are getting old and could start saying things to people. There's a new step mamma in the picture and there could be major problems cropping up over wills and money. Young people could start drinking heavily, abuse drugs and start talking. If there was severe dysfunction that never got proper treatment there could be another crime that results in talki g about jonbenet. I hope not, but anything is possible.

Right on target txsvicki!! And does anyone else besides me think the new MRS. R. has quite a few features that young JB might have shared if she had grown up?? Maybe old JR just can't get JB out of his mind. He is suffering so, after all.:what:

 

[midwest mama]

DocG...putting our differences on side, I always respect your passion in this case. And above post is another proof of it. Regardless of any RDI scenario, would you agree that the MAIN GOAL for resolution/conviction should be to establish the legal 'roadmap' for the final destination: new GJ?

I must admit, years back, I wasn't paying much attention to the FW letter 'To the people of Colorado', 1998. Today, after reading Kolar's book (page 478), this letter gives me an idea on how this case could be moved forward. To me, FW letter is a clear 'roadmap' for the future legal approach. I'm not an expert in legal matters...but hope someone would correct me if I'm wrong. Here what I believe should be done.

1. Petition to the Court to review DA corruption by exposing AH and ML unlawful activities. Outcome: the annulment of Ramsey's 'clearing' and unseal the 'island of privacy' documents;

2. Based on the ruling from above, BPD and DA must call independent experts AGAIN to review the critical evidences (RN, DNA, fibers, AR, Ramsey's medical records);

3. Now, it's time to assemble new GJ.

Please, read FW letter again. I do believe in power of People. But our power should be legally supported. With pure emotions -we wouldn't achive much! We need a legal quidence....JMO

First of all, DocG, :yourock:

OpenMind, your forum name could easily be CleverMind4U

You are both ssooooooo right about a prosecution procedure. I am with you and at the ready :soldier:. So, besides talking about what should be done, do either of you have an idea of what the first step we, as citizens, can take to being heard and recognized?

Tricia, any ideas?? Help! Help! Help!

 

[midwest mama]

Love your last post, DocG! Whaleshark has a great point on the "Are The Ramsey's Involved" thread. A combo written note. The aspect of trying to pin the note on just one writer might be the best glitch to throw out, and an approach of the "experts" on making the judgement as to if the note could have been written by 2 writers might be the way to get a fresh start, especially with the experts from the CBI. Again, the FBI said to consider the chance of 2 hands being involved in this crime.

So, possibility of a co-written note=new expert examination, NO INTRUDER well substantiated, and only one R left to prosecute, I say great possibility!!

And yes, media is the key, and hence my plaintive cry to TRICIA for help.

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

I am not familiar with the evidence against the dad if someone wouldn't mind summarising the facts regarding him. Also was it early hours that the police were called? Hard to trawl back through the threads to find the info - sorry and thank you. xx

 

[OpenMind4U]

Good suggestions. But who would do the petitioning and to whom? You can't petition "the court," because there isn't any yet. The only one who can bring charges is the DA, or maybe the Governor. I've written them "petitions" of my own, but don't expect an answer any time soon (i.e., ever). We could ask readers of the forums and also readers of my blog to present a petition, but without the involvement of the media, it could all too easily be ignored. As I see it, the media is the key, but as should be clear from past media reports, they tend to be extremely cautious (aside from the Tabs, but they don't have any credibility so they too will be ignored).

I like the idea of a Grand Jury. Hunter was wrongly criticized imo for his handling of the last GJ, because at that time Patsy was in the line of fire and there never was a case to be made against her -- meanwhile John was ruled out, and the intruder theory was still alive and well thanks to Lou Smit, so what would be the point of indicting anyone at that time? I think Hunter did the right thing to call it off.

This time would be different, because now instead of Lou Smit we would have James Kolar, and Kolar could easily destroy Smit's wacky theories AND the DNA evidence also.

So. END of intruder theory. Patsy is no longer with us, so we don't have to worry anymore about whether to indict Patsy or John, or whether it's possible to build a case against Patsy. If you read my blog you'll see that it is certainly possible to build a case against John, and the rules of evidence are a lot looser with a Grand Jury, so reasonable doubt won't be a factor.

All we need is someone from the media with the guts to pursue the case despite all past obstacles and then shame the DA into acting. Any ideas?

Geraldo, where are you????? :ufo:

Talking about media. 2012 is election year. Media is busy with much higher 'demands'. However, how about Vanity Fair? or Rocky Mountain News columnist Charlie Brennan? or simply start with Tricia and get Carol McKinley from Daily Beast involved? or Boyler radio show?...I mean, we should start somewhere, right? Let's talk to Tricia and get her advice, first!!!...You're an excellent writer! I'll help you and I'm sure hundred others on this forum will provide the support. Just start writing the 'draft' pettition, on the separate thread. We'll add/modify...and let's ball rolling! At the minimum, we'll be INVOLVED in something meaningfull, not just fighting with each other...JMO

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

Talking about media. 2012 is election year. Media is busy with much higher 'demands'. However, how about Vanity Fair? or Rocky Mountain News columnist Charlie Brennan? or simply start with Tricia and get Carol McKinley from Daily Beast involved? or Boyler radio show?...I mean, we should start somewhere, right? Let's talk to Tricia and get her advice, first!!!...You're an excellent writer! I'll help you and I'm sure hundred others on this forum will provide the support. Just start writing the 'draft' pettition, on the separate thread. We'll add/modify...and let's ball rolling! At the minimum, we'll be INVOLVED in something meaningfull, not just fighting with each other...JMO

re - election year - a candidate going like a bulldog for justice for children will look very good to a lot of voters - just saying - maybe get onto MPs or whoever you have over there and let them "market" the case/issues/ petition....

 

[OpenMind4U]

re - election year - a candidate going like a bulldog for justice for children will look very good to a lot of voters - just saying - maybe get onto MPs or whoever you have over there and let them "market" the case/issues/ petition....

Excellent thought!!! You see, DocG, we already get WS minds involved!!! I have no doubts that our, WS, 'Letter to People of America' (like FW was done 'To People of Colorado') - we'll get needed attention...from media and next, from Government...

First step, let's talk to Tricia...Next, open new thread with the 'draft'...we need legal brains as well so our 'petition' has the legal overtone and foundation...I'm sure Mr. Wood has plenty of enemies ready to pay him back...this is the time!!!

 

[midwest mama]

I am not familiar with the evidence against the dad if someone wouldn't mind summarising the facts regarding him. Also was it early hours that the police were called? Hard to trawl back through the threads to find the info - sorry and thank you. xx

HUGE task, after 15 years of commentary from so many sources. Best recommendation for you is go to U]www.solvingjonbenet/blogspot.com[/U]
and read through DocG's theories - starting as he suggests. Also, read these books: Perfect Murder, Perfect Town - JonBenet: The Police Files (which are the interviews of the Ramseys by law enforcement as well as media) and James Kolar's book: Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped Jon Benet. There are more books, of course, all serving to give you more case info.

It will take you some time to get through it all, but Doc's blogspot can give you an immediate overview on John Ramsey. And beware, after more than 15 years there is still much controversy everywhere as to the real killer.

 

[midwest mama]

Hey you guys - sent a copy of the email I sent off to Tricia just a while ago to a couple of you who are reachable by email, and then to a few of you who are here often via your personal message boxes. But for those of you I missed who could join on a bandwagon, here is what I sent off to Tricia:

Tricia - I'm sure you're monitoring the enthusiasm of some of us on the JonBenet Forum regarding the possibility of rattling up someone in Boulder enough to consider Kolar's Theory of Prosecution, or to at least take this case off the Cold Case shelf and look seriously at it again. They must become accountable and fulfill their moral obligation with some shred of dignity due the citizens of CO who do not want to see their state law enforcement offices go the way of Penn State and the Sandusky fiasco.

There are very intelligent avenues of prosecution being pointed out by some on the forum. and there is good support of Kolar's attempt to reach the eyes and ears of CO authorities. In light of revelations in Kolar's book, combined with the possibility of an arrest and trial being a valid pursuit, some of us are at the ready to do all that we can to bring some justice to JB.

Media assist seems the only possible productive beginning for those of us who feel the time has come for John Ramsey to be charged and prosecuted for the sexual molestation/murder of his daughter. It is the only likely and plausible avenue of prosecution for this case. Patsy is gone, Burke cannot be tried, and it is up to John to answer to a jury of his peers as to the questions of his guilt or innocence.

Kolar debunked an intruder theory substantially, the poll percentages tallied up from the forums indicate belief in JR's involvement, and there is now a
Theory of Prosecution in the hands of Boulder authorities, which indicates there is an avenue that can be addressed.

Tricia, how can we, as citizens who so desperately want to see Justice for JB get the media attention we realize must happen in order to put the pressure on the proper CO authorities?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I am very skeptical that the media will ever publish anything that is anti-Ramsey. Look at how many networks/shows gave JR sympathetic airtime to promote his book. A LOT more than ones who talked about Kolar's book. Sorry to be pessimistic, but I just don't see some show on CNN talking about how a group of people want JR to be prosecuted.

IMO, Lou Smit (if he were alive) could get an episode of 48 Hours to talk about his theory a lot easier than Kolar could. After all the lawsuits the R's filed against the media, and especially after they were "cleared" by Mary Lacy, I don't think the media wants to be blatantly RDI.

Just look at what happened with Kolar's book. Newsweek/The Daily Beast was the first one to break the story, yet most of the media ignored it. John's statement about how he doesn't like Toddlers and Tiaras got a lot more publicity.

 

[Bonnette]

I am very skeptical that the media will ever publish anything that is anti-Ramsey. Look at how many networks/shows gave JR sympathetic airtime to promote his book. A LOT more than ones who talked about Kolar's book. Sorry to be pessimistic, but I just don't see some show on CNN talking about how a group of people want JR to be prosecuted.

IMO, Lou Smit (if he were alive) could get an episode of 48 Hours to talk about his theory a lot easier than Kolar could. After all the lawsuits the R's filed against the media, and especially after they were "cleared" by Mary Lacy, I don't think the media wants to be blatantly RDI.

I know what you mean. Still, nothing ventured...my rational mind tells me that the case is cold everywhere but here and in our dreams, and at the same time I can't stop hope from springing eternally.

IMO, a citizens' campaign would stand a much better chance anywhere but in Boulder. Steve Thomas described the local situation very well, and not much has changed since he wrote JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. Kolar seems to hold out a bit of hope, but less toward the end of his own book than in the beginning.

If the Boulder DA were to make a good-faith effort to reignite the case, I think we'd see the national media sit up and take notice.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I know what you mean. Still, nothing ventured...my rational mind tells me that the case is cold everywhere but here and in our dreams, and at the same time I can't stop hope from springing eternally.

IMO, a citizens' campaign would stand a much better chance anywhere but in Boulder. Steve Thomas described the local situation very well, and not much has changed since he wrote JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. Kolar seems to hold out a bit of hope, but less toward the end of his own book than in the beginning.

If the Boulder DA were to make a good-faith effort to reignite the case, I think we'd see the national media sit up and take notice.

So you would be asking for someone or some group to take a "friend of the court" position and seek to get what evidence that has come to light before the court of law? You'd need money. Money to pay a settlement to John Ramsey because John will point the finger at Pasty as JonBenet's abuser and killer.

 

[midwest mama]

So you would be asking for someone or some group to take a "friend of the court" position and seek to get what evidence that has come to light before the court of law? You'd need money. Money to pay a settlement to John Ramsey because John will point the finger at Pasty as JonBenet's abuser and killer.

You have a valid consideration. It would take a huge step of faith by some to go forward and fight for the cause of justice. Wish we could talk to David right now for some tips - he was the least likely candidate to take on old Goliath, and most of us know the outcome of that story!

 

[Bonnette]

So you would be asking for someone or some group to take a "friend of the court" position and seek to get what evidence that has come to light before the court of law?

No, not asking for anything, just thinking out loud about what it would take to lift this investigation from its mordant state.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I know what you mean. Still, nothing ventured...my rational mind tells me that the case is cold everywhere but here and in our dreams, and at the same time I can't stop hope from springing eternally.

IMO, a citizens' campaign would stand a much better chance anywhere but in Boulder. Steve Thomas described the local situation very well, and not much has changed since he wrote JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. Kolar seems to hold out a bit of hope, but less toward the end of his own book than in the beginning.

If the Boulder DA were to make a good-faith effort to reignite the case, I think we'd see the national media sit up and take notice.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. What I disagree with is, that WE can make the national media start talking about prosecuting John Ramsey. The national media reported when Boulder wanted to re-interview Burke, so I would assume they would report if, say, they wanted to re-interview John, or any other new developments by the Boulder LE/DA. I think they will only report something if it comes out of the mouth of the officials.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Also, sorry if I missed it, but what exactly would John be prosecuted for? Most of us don't think John actually killed JonBenet, but was involved in the coverup. What would the charge be?

 

[Bonnette]

Also, sorry if I missed it, but what exactly would John be prosecuted for? Most of us don't think John actually killed JonBenet, but was involved in the coverup. What would the charge be?

No, I don't think John could be prosecuted for anything (others here disagree, and perhaps they are right). I'm really just responding to your very accurate observation that the national press won't get behind a new examination of any of the RDI scenarios...whereas they're fine with giving JR airtime for his latest opus. The press usually follows the line of least resistance, so the Boulder DA would have to indicate a willingness to reevaluate its Ramsey stance before the national media would get onboard. I think that's probably what Kolar is holding out hope for, though it's hard to tell from his book what he actually believes is possible.

 

[UKGuy]

No, I don't think John could be prosecuted for anything (others here disagree, and perhaps they are right). I'm really just responding to your very accurate observation that the national press won't get behind a new examination of any of the RDI scenarios...whereas they're fine with giving JR airtime for his latest opus. The press usually follows the line of least resistance, so the Boulder DA would have to indicate a willingness to reevaluate its Ramsey stance before the national media would get onboard. I think that's probably what Kolar is holding out hope for, though it's hard to tell from his book what he actually believes is possible.

Bonnette,
JR could be charged with Homicide, whatever degree. My understanding is that there is no statute of limitations on a murder charge?

If Boulder DA offers no evidence, then the case is dead in the water.

If its BDI then its game over.

I reckon a more clever option might be to advertise WS bigtime, or write a book, outlining who might have done it and why, e.g. SuperDave. Promote this all over the internet, e.g. get the truth out, in a legal format of course, then the press and media will take notice. Since the print and offline media tend to follow the internet these days!


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