IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[brighidin]

I believe TG saw two bikes on the trail.

But in an effort to reassure myself that the bikes were later found against a fence, I can't find anything to support that. I read several articles, all say the bikes were found near the trail in a fenced area. In fact, I even found once source that said one bike was laying down and one was on it's kickstand!

So have I been misleading myself all this time about where the bikes were eventually found? Does anyone have a link where it says the volunteer firefighter found the bikes leaning against a fence? I can't find that anywhere. TIA.

It is in the 18 July presser. Check out the link i posted out a few posts above yours. Rick Abben says in the presser that when he got there, the bikes were up against the fence. Start around 8:30.

HTH!

 

[JaimeInLA]

oh holy cow, somehow your one post made my brain jump off into "DUH, now it seems obvious in a 13 year old on the playground with a crush" kind of way, except with SO MUCH worse consequences!

hmmmmm have to think for a few.

But this reminds me almost of a show I saw once where this guy and girl were making a relationship and getting on fine but then her husband who she thought was dead in the war came back from out of nowhere and she was all like, holy cow, I still love him! and her new lover was all like " :banghead: " and then the guy concocted this outrageous scheme to try to make her think her husband (who she'd thought was dead in the war until now) was a terrible person so she wouldn't go back with him, but instead would stay with this new boyfriend.

I have NO IDEA why it reminds me of that movie though. :waitasec:

edit - btw, at the end of the movie, the husband kicks the new guy's butt like you wouldn't believe, and the wife tells him off, and the husband and wife live happily ever after. lady lives on a plantation or something I think. Wish I could remember the movie's name...

YES - in a 13-year old crush kind of way!! The kind of way that you'd want to ride your bike past his house just to see if he was in the yard, then turn around and ride back home -- a few times a day.

BTW, your post CRACKED ME UP! And thanks, but I'll pass on the name of the movie. Hahahaha. :3d::biggrin:

 

[katydid23]

Please don't take this as judge-y, but I have a question for all you who think this was done by a pervert who groomed them -- Heather was almost ALWAYS with Elizabeth. Whoever did this has to have known that she was leaving for an appointment at that particular time on that exact day and that Elizabeth would be outside riding her bike. How would a total stranger who watched them at the pool EVER determine that? Unless this person literally staked out the house 24-7 (which I presume would have been noticed), then it's quite a coincidence if he goes over to kidnap her the same day and time that her mom leaves for a Dr. appt., and she is outside riding.

Same for a random pervert who happened to seize the opportunity -- what are the chances that he'd be able to find those 2 girls, at that precise opportunity.

I know it does happen, but I just see someone close to the family as having MUCH more inside knowledge of schedules and such, and more ability to seize the opportunity!

But a stalker does not need to know anything about the schedules before hand. They just need to be patient. They can sit in their white van and just wait for the girls to leave the home.

Same with the random opportunity abductor. He just waits in the trap, like a spider waiting for a fly. So he does not need to know anyones schedule. He just waits.

 

[katydid23]

Here's Mr Carpenter again. He says he saw them riding by all the time.

http://indianolarecordherald.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120717/NEWS/120717002/Witness-said-he-may-seen-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

That contradicts Aunt's comment that they went there once.
That bothers me.

Also, Dan is charged with violence towards Misty-I wonder if he has been violent towards anyone else?

But once i heard that the three sisters who live across from Lizzie ride their bikes all of the time, it made me wonder if this witness has them all mixed up with each other. Maybe he has seen Lizzie with them before, but not as often as she has seen the 3 others riding by.

 

[cindersoot]

I think the position of the bikes is very important. If they were leaning against the fence it would probally be a casual thing, ( to neatly get them out of the way from others on the path), or if they were laying on the ground that would indicate to me that it was something done in a hurry. I also would love to know which way they were facing.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Judge J never asked her that. She enthusiastically offered up that little tidbit of information on her own.

The judge, in reply to Aunt t's long defense of DM, said [ paraphrasing]' wasnt he also charged with domestic violence against your sister?' ...

" Yes and I was there when that happened and I saw it..."[ paraphrased]

Right -- But I'm talking about AFTER that. Then Judge J said, "You seem to be spending an awfully big amount of time defending your brother in law!" Or something like that. I still have it on DVR, I can look up the exact quote. I think that is what the OP was referring to.

 

[winterrose]

Please post a link?

tia.

It was on the last thread from yesterday. I can't remember who posted it, but read it yesterday. It was the one where the purse was on the other side of the fence about 10 ft from the bikes.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It is in the 18 July presser. Check out the link i posted out a few posts above yours. Rick Abben says in the presser that when he got there, the bikes were up against the fence. Start around 8:30.

HTH!

I know that, LOL, but where does it say anywhere that when the volunteer firefighter found the bikes, they were leaning against the fence? We only know that they were against the fence when Abben got there.

The sources I can find only mention the bikes being found near the trail by the firefighter, not against a fence.

I have always assumed the firefighter found them against the fence, but that is apparently a misconception on my part.

 

[BunnyHop]

But once i heard that the three sisters who live across from Lizzie ride their bikes all of the time, it made me wonder if this witness has them all mixed up with each other. Maybe he has seen Lizzie with them before, but not as often as she has seen the 3 others riding by.

I listened to him again, and my impression is that he sounds sure of what he's saying. (Forget about the "butinski" wife) :floorlaugh:

 

[JaimeInLA]

But a stalker does not need to know anything about the schedules before hand. They just need to be patient. They can sit in their white van and just wait for the girls to leave the home.

Same with the random opportunity abductor. He just waits in the trap, like a spider waiting for a fly. So he does not need to know anyones schedule. He just waits.

I get that, but the chances of that random stalker guy being successful in being able to abduct those two girls (sitting and watching at the EXACT time the opportunity arose -- the first day Lyric was there since her mom just started working, at the time Heather had an appointment, and the girls ventured out too far alone) has to be so ridiculously minute, statistically speaking.

It is much more PROBABLE that someone who KNEW the schedules is the perp.

 

[brighidin]

I know that, LOL, but where does it say anywhere that when the volunteer firefighter found the bikes, they were leaning against the fence? We only know that they were against the fence when Abben got there.

The sources I can find only mention the bikes being found near the trail by the firefighter, not against a fence.

I have always assumed the firefighter found them against the fence, but that is apparently a misconception on my part.

Oh. I don't remember reading about a volunteer firefighter. all I know is TG said he almost hit them and Abben said they were up against a fence when he got there. Sorry!

 

[Jules71]

It was on the last thread from yesterday. I can't remember who posted it, but read it yesterday. It was the one where the purse was on the other side of the fence about 10 ft from the bikes.

Yep, posted yesterday. 10 feet from the bikes on the lake side of the fence and further east. Posted yesterday and it was a quote from somewhere.

 

[Bootsctr]

Lyric Cook & Elizabeth Collins: 7/18/12 *** AUDIO ONLY*** - YouTube

18 July press conference where Abben talks about the bikes being up against the fence when he got there. Start around the 8:40 mark

Thanks to PattyG for uploading the presser. note: it is audio only.

Bless you! Thanks to you and PattyG! Apologies for rehashing something already extensively discussed. After listening I think LE knows if the bikes were moved and who moved them.

 

[katydid23]

I think the position of the bikes is very important. If they were leaning against the fence it would probally be a casual thing, ( to neatly get them out of the way from others on the path), or if they were laying on the ground that would indicate to me that it was something done in a hurry. I also would love to know which way they were facing.

When TG saw the bikes at 12:20ish, he said they were blocking the path and he had to swerve. That is the main reason he even noticed them. Imo, if they had been leaned up against the fence he might not have even paid them any attention.

The baffling thing is how did they end up against the fence when the detective arrived?

It is hard to believe that a cop did that. And a firefighter found them while searching for the girls. I am sure he would know better than to move them since it was a missing child case.

I guess the question is: HOW WERE THE BIKES WHEN THE FIREFIGHTER FOUND THEM?

But back to TG for a sec. He says he had to swerve. So wouldnt you expect that he might have moved them out of the way, since it was a blind curve?

So maybe he was the one who moved them, thinking it was silly kids who left them in a dangerous spot.

Hmmm....would he have left his prints on the bikes then?

 

[BunnyHop]

But once i heard that the three sisters who live across from Lizzie ride their bikes all of the time, it made me wonder if this witness has them all mixed up with each other. Maybe he has seen Lizzie with them before, but not as often as she has seen the 3 others riding by.

Heard it where? From whom?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Oh. I don't remember reading about a volunteer firefighter. all I know is TG said he almost hit them and Abben said they were up against a fence when he got there. Sorry!

Hey, it's hard to keep up LOL.

A volunteer firefighter located the bikes after the search for Lyric and Elizabeth began at the lake. I had always assumed that since Abben found the bikes against a fence, the bikes were in that position when the firefighter found them.

But in going back to look at various articles, I see references to the bikes being located near the trail, and near a fenced area, but nothing to indicate the firefighter found them against the fence.

 

[katydid23]

I get that, but the chances of that random stalker guy being successful in being able to abduct those two girls (sitting and watching at the EXACT time the opportunity arose -- the first day Lyric was there since her mom just started working, at the time Heather had an appointment, and the girls ventured out too far alone) has to be so ridiculously minute, statistically speaking.

It is much more PROBABLE that someone who KNEW the schedules is the perp.

TRUE. That is one of my biggest problems with the random abductor theory. WHY the heck would a perp sit in that little trap area? Are there really that many unsupervised kids wandering by there? Enough to make him choose that location?

Most of the cases we have seen recently around Iowa, with the white van and black SUV, involve the perps driving in busier streets near schools or playgrounds. Not sitting in a remote, hidden woody area.

And what are the odds that the girls would be randomly kidnapped within moments of arriving at that lake?

 

[cindersoot]

When TG saw the bikes at 12:20ish, he said they were blocking the path and he had to swerve. That is the main reason he even noticed them. Imo, if they had been leaned up against the fence he might not have even paid them any attention.

The baffling thing is how did they end up against the fence when the detective arrived?

It is hard to believe that a cop did that. And a firefighter found them while searching for the girls. I am sure he would know better than to move them since it was a missing child case.

I guess the question is: HOW WERE THE BIKES WHEN THE FIREFIGHTER FOUND THEM?

But back to TG for a sec. He says he had to swerve. So wouldnt you expect that he might have moved them out of the way, since it was a blind curve?

So maybe he was the one who moved them, thinking it was silly kids who left them in a dangerous spot.

Hmmm....would he have left his prints on the bikes then?

I think then TG put them against the fence. OMG, maybe he said that cause his fingerprints would be detected, and hes covering his arse. ?? UGH

 

[nervous_nellie]

When TG saw the bikes at 12:20ish, he said they were blocking the path and he had to swerve. That is the main reason he even noticed them. Imo, if they had been leaned up against the fence he might not have even paid them any attention.

The baffling thing is how did they end up against the fence when the detective arrived?

It is hard to believe that a cop did that. And a firefighter found them while searching for the girls. I am sure he would know better than to move them since it was a missing child case.

I guess the question is: HOW WERE THE BIKES WHEN THE FIREFIGHTER FOUND THEM?

But back to TG for a sec. He says he had to swerve. So wouldnt you expect that he might have moved them out of the way, since it was a blind curve?

So maybe he was the one who moved them, thinking it was silly kids who left them in a dangerous spot.

Hmmm....would he have left his prints on the bikes then?

this may be why abben was so clear with his statement in the pc, that is the way the bikes were "when he arrived on scene"...

if he wouldnt of went out of his way to be clear that they very well could have been positioned differently before his arrival... if le moved them i dont think he would have pointed this out??? kwim? or what would the point be to point that out without explaining???

 

[katydid23]

Heard it where? From whom?

Aunt Tammy, who else.

She said that on her last TV interview with Judge Jeanine, when she corrected her mother, who had just said that the girls never rode to the lake before.

Aunt Tammy said[ paraphrasing] " Let me clarify...the three sisters who live across the street from Lizzie ride to the lake all of the time, and she had rode to the lake with them before, so she knew the lake..."