IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #11

[Sunlight]

Ollipop. What's up with that really light green water you can see on satellite under 380 between camping ground Deerxxx and Hanson's lake, just west of Meyer's lake? Tons of woods there and a path. Was that area searched? Just curious if any locals know.

 

[TobyWong*]

1st time w/ pics pls be right pls be right.

one pic is google earth timeline photo from 2006 to see how the trees and paths have evolved. The other is a street view from the highway looking at Schons st/Arbutus area. the grassy area I've mentioned. I looks to me flat grass area and no fence on trail.But this is a 2008 photo iirc.I don't know when fence was consructed.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.motorracingnetwork.com/R...ng-to-Assist-in-Search-for-Missing-Girls.aspx

snipped:

BK Racing is lending a hand in the search for Elizabeth Collins and her cousin Lyric Cook, who have been missing since Friday, July 13. The team will run a special decal on the deck lid of its No. 83 Toyota, driven by Landon Cassill, and No. 93 Toyota driven by Travis Kvapil. The decals will feature an image of the missing girls, along with a phone number to call for any information on their whereabouts. The decals will run this weekend during the Pennsylvania 400 at the Pocono Raceway.

*******

Our girls will be getting some much needed national exposure this weekend.

 

[cindysue]

I'm wondering if it's possible the girls had been to the bike path at the lake in the days before the abduction, how would anyone know, they didn't know that Friday after all. suppose they meet the perp riding his bike or fishing earlier that week, and he told them to meet him on the bike path Friday to see his puppy. And brought friends along to that meeting! Imo Someone who was very familiar with the lake area, and no job as to be able to sit and wait .

 

[whittymom4]

If anyone wants to email the Nancy Grace show, and ask her to keep covering this case, here is the email address for the producer:

bonnie.druker@turner.com

Done, just hope they listen to us....

 

[Copper]

A story from earlier today, why LE was looking for white van man last night:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/FBI-...-Report-of-Attempted-Abduction-164749046.html

 

[Pippi]

Call me crazy, but, the whole white van/young guy sighting was a little too, umm, contrived? If they had video that clear, wouldn't they have the plates also?

Was the release of video stills an attempt to legally obtain DNA from that guy, or to give the real perp the impression that LE is ON to him/them, and they have video?

Something is up with that video release.

2 cents, JMO

I complete agree with this!

*Why not just show a picture of the van?
*Why the odd statements of “not as a witness” and “we BELIEVE has he info”? Why not say right away that he is not a POI or we just want to know if he saw anything?
*Why interrupt TV instead of waiting until the news?
*He was filling a large vehicle. A business vehicle. I’d be shocked if he paid in cash. Maybe they could have tracked him down through checks/credit card.
*The station should definitely have had the license plate number on camera.

So WHY did they handle this in the humiliating way they did? Why not just run the plates and call the guy up?

Those who imply that he was looked at due to his history – well, if they knew his history before putting out the picture, that means they would have known his name and could have just gone to his house, right? No need to flash his pic on primetime TV.

There has to be more to this. Does the FBI humiliate innocent people without real evidence? I thought everything LE released to the media was carefully planned. Or did they want his picture out in the media?

JMO (not sleuthing this guy, just LE’s handling of the matter because it has me confused! :waitasec

 

[Jax49]

I've gotta run...lightning storm...hope to be back after the storm is over.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I agree was well. I first heard of it after I stumbled upon Noreen Gosch's book (mother of Johnny Gosch, paperboy that disappeared in Iowa when I was a paperboy of the same age). I realize many have debunked her, and she has been labeled as crazy, but the stuff that her story led me to, and the world it attempted to expose, is very scary. Considering the power and money involved, and their ability to cover their own tracks with influence and/or intimidation, it doesn't surprise me that the whole thing is labeled as a "conspiracy." I can't understand why a mother of a missing boy would invent some of the things Gosch did. While I'm sure she embellished, exaggerated, and connected dots that maybe were a stretch, I have a hard time believing it was a complete hoax.

Thank you Ollipop. I think I have mentioned it here before, but I personally know a somewhat famous woman who pulled off one of the greatest hoaxes you could ever imagine, right under the nose of most of America. It didn't involve pedophilia or anything like that (possibly insurance fraud for claiming she birthed a baby that was actually her daughter's). Money and influence go a LONG WAY in buying people's silence, erasing evidence and influencing the media. I am writing a book about it, and the things I have uncovered are absolutely shocking. So I DO believe that something like this COULD have happened, and even if a large number of people were involved, they would all keep silent. I have seen it with my own eyes. And most of the time, people just can't imagine that something so outrageous would actually happen -- so they label the believers as tinfoil hat people and ignore the problem. Disturbing.

 

[Athena12]

I can't help it, I'm just not buying that story. Maybe LE is playing it cool for some reason, but I cannot for the life of me think of a legitimately innocent reason for a stranger (in a white van, no less!)to call out to a little girl alone on the street, compliment her looks, and TOUCH HER FACE, especially when everyone within a 50 mile radius is searching for two abducted girls! Is he the only person in Iowa who doesn't know that white vans are trying to steal kids off the street?

I know that this is how it is being reported to be a mistake, I just don't believe it.:snooty:

There was an article in the Dubuque Telegraph Herald about this incident. I wish I could link to it, but it's behind a paywall.

According to the article, the police determined this was not an abduction attempt after speaking to both the man (who voluntarily came forward) and a witness who saw the whole thing. It turns out it actually happened at a different location than the girl had reported (it was on White Street, not on Jackson in front of the laundromat). Police also said that the man has a speech impediment that makes him difficult to understand and they believe that may have contributed to a misunderstanding of what happened.

There was no mention of whether he actually touched her face, though!

 

[Wondergirl]

I complete agree with this!

*Why not just show a picture of the van?
*Why the odd statements of “not as a witness” and “we BELIEVE has he info”? Why not say right away that he is not a POI or we just want to know if he saw anything?
*Why interrupt TV instead of waiting until the news?
*He was filling a large vehicle. A business vehicle. I’d be shocked if he paid in cash. Maybe they could have tracked him down through checks/credit card.
*The station should definitely have had the license plate number on camera.

So WHY did they handle this in the humiliating way they did? Why not just run the plates and call the guy up?

Those who imply that he was looked at due to his history – well, if they knew his history before putting out the picture, that means they would have known his name and could have just gone to his house, right? No need to flash his pic on primetime TV.

There has to be more to this. Does the FBI humiliate innocent people without real evidence? I thought everything LE released to the media was carefully planned. Or did they want his picture out in the media?

JMO (not sleuthing this guy, just LE’s handling of the matter because it has me confused! :waitasec

BBM: In pretty much all the missing cases I have followed, LE strategically releases information.

The release of the video had a purpose, and it wasn't to track down that guy.

JMO

 

[JaimeInLA]

Pic 1: A pic of the end of Maiden Lane, through the fence, taken from the trail

Pic 2: The beginning of Maiden Lane, taken from the driveway of the pump house

Pic 3: From several paces down Maiden Lane, looking back up towards Arbutus

Pic 4: The clearing in the woods that is Maiden Lane, looking southwest. The lake is on the right, with just a portion of the jetty visible, trail and fence just out of view to the left

Pic 5: Pic of the trail from the end of Maiden Lane - essentially the reverse of the first pic

Hi Ollipop -
I have 3 questions about your amazing photos:

1) Did the high weeds on the driveway near the pump house look as if they had recently been driven on or crushed down in any way?

2) What is the stripe painted on the bikepath? Was that recently put there by LE to indicate where the bikes were found? Or is it some kind of distance marker that repeats as you go around the path?

3) Would the path between the bikes and the woods on the lake side of the fence have been muddy? I know it drizzled that morning. Would there have been footprints? Did you see any footprints on the lake side of the fence?

TIA!

 

[elepher50]

I complete agree with this!

*Why not just show a picture of the van?
*Why the odd statements of “not as a witness” and “we BELIEVE has he info”? Why not say right away that he is not a POI or we just want to know if he saw anything?
*Why interrupt TV instead of waiting until the news?
*He was filling a large vehicle. A business vehicle. I’d be shocked if he paid in cash. Maybe they could have tracked him down through checks/credit card.
*The station should definitely have had the license plate number on camera.

So WHY did they handle this in the humiliating way they did? Why not just run the plates and call the guy up?

Those who imply that he was looked at due to his history – well, if they knew his history before putting out the picture, that means they would have known his name and could have just gone to his house, right? No need to flash his pic on primetime TV.

There has to be more to this. Does the FBI humiliate innocent people without real evidence? I thought everything LE released to the media was carefully planned. Or did they want his picture out in the media?

JMO (not sleuthing this guy, just LE’s handling of the matter because it has me confused! :waitasec

I agree. Sounds to me like FBI is trying to eliminate every white van as a potential POI that was in Evansdale on the 13th July. So in effect they are making a statement by their actions.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

STOP THE ARGUING AND BICKERING. NOW.

If you have a problem with a post, alert it. The mods will take care of it. Or, if they don't after a reasonable amount of time, it's probably fine. Move on. Or send a message to a mod to find out why.

Now, back to focusing on ELIZABETH and LYRIC, please.

 

[Ollipop]

Ollipop. What's up with that really light green water you can see on satellite under 380 between camping ground Deerxxx and Hanson's lake, just west of Meyer's lake? Tons of woods there and a path. Was that area searched? Just curious if any locals know.

Its a little lake in the Deerwood Campground. It has a name, they have built a new "addition" to the campground that is based around it. It is usually surrounded by RV campers these days, and I think that addition is for those who spend all summer there.

 

[elepher50]

The FBI would not be looking at white vans w/o having some good reason. Wondering if some cameras around homes in the area have surfaced that showed white vans in the area on or before July 13th when the girls went missing.

Looks like they are actively seeking out the white van owners and interviewing them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-surveillance-photos-speaks-to-authorities/

http://www.kare11.com/news/national/article/985287/18/FBI-questioning-man-in-Iowa-missing-girls-case

And there is fairly aggressive reporting by the media on this as well. This to me is speaking volumes.

Girls it is time to be found and hopefully alive and well although as the time progresses, the chance of survival lessens which saddens me greatly.

 

[Ollipop]

Hi Ollipop -
I have 3 questions about your amazing photos:

1) Did the high weeds on the driveway near the pump house look as if they had recently been driven on or crushed down in any way?

2) What is the stripe painted on the bikepath? Was that recently put there by LE to indicate where the bikes were found? Or is it some kind of distance marker that repeats as you go around the path?

3) Would the path between the bikes and the woods on the lake side of the fence have been muddy? I know it drizzled that morning. Would there have been footprints? Did you see any footprints on the lake side of the fence?

TIA!

1. Yes, I noticed it earlier, then went back to get a better look. That was when I discovered Maiden Lane. Seeing older pics where it is much clearer that it was an established path/road is fascinating to me. I've lived here 5-6 yrs, and never knew it was there. I was aware of the clearing back there somewhat, but not that there was an established path leading to it. It is fairly overgrown now, and in checking out the pumphouse I noticed that a vehicle had been through there recently. Photographed and called in to tipline, btw.

2. Distance marker. I don't believe its there anymore, hasn't been for quite some time. There are a few around the trail.

3. Not likely muddy, even after a drizzle. The "clearing" is just barely that. Just enough sun gets through to have allowed it to be fairly overgrown now. I'm still fascinated that as little as 6 years ago it looked like a gravel road from above. Keep in mind that when they drained the lake last, they built that jetty (I did see one old photo where the jetty was not visible above the water), so I assume that was how they'd accessed that drain in the past. Just my opinion, I'll try to get some old-timin' local to fill me in on the history of those woods.

 

[JaimeInLA]

The FBI would not be looking at white vans w/o having some good reason. Wondering if some cameras around homes in the area have surfaced that showed white vans in the area on or before July 13th when the girls went missing.

Looks like they are actively seeking out the white van owners and interviewing them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-surveillance-photos-speaks-to-authorities/

http://www.kare11.com/news/national/article/985287/18/FBI-questioning-man-in-Iowa-missing-girls-case

And there is fairly aggressive reporting by the media on this as well. This to me is speaking volumes.

Girls it is time to be found and hopefully alive and well although as the time progresses, the chance of survival lessens which saddens me greatly.

I keep thinking about the DC Sniper case. LE released a photo of a white box truck. Everyone and their mother from coast to coast was FREAKED OUT by white box trucks, and called in every single sighting of one. Turns out that a box truck had nothing at all to do with the case and the shooters were in an old beater sedan.

I get the same feeling here. I think LE is either purposely deflecting, or the public is in a mass hysteria over white vans. I'm just not seeing a connection.

Of course, they know way more than we do, so I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong!

 

[JaimeInLA]

1. Yes, I noticed it earlier, then went back to get a better look. That was when I discovered Maiden Lane. Seeing older pics where it is much clearer that it was an established path/road is fascinating to me. I've lived here 5-6 yrs, and never knew it was there. I was aware of the clearing back there somewhat, but not that there was an established path leading to it. It is fairly overgrown now, and in checking out the pumphouse I noticed that a vehicle had been through there recently. Photographed and called in to tipline, btw.

2. Distance marker. I don't believe its there anymore, hasn't been for quite some time. There are a few around the trail.

3. Not likely muddy, even after a drizzle. The "clearing" is just barely that. Just enough sun gets through to have allowed it to be fairly overgrown now. I'm still fascinated that as little as 6 years ago it looked like a gravel road from above. Keep in mind that when they drained the lake last, they built that jetty (I did see one old photo where the jetty was not visible above the water), so I assume that was how they'd accessed that drain in the past. Just my opinion, I'll try to get some old-timin' local to fill me in on the history of those woods.

Thanks Olli. We are so lucky to have you!

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Looks like they are actively seeking out the white van owners and interviewing them.

I don't know why FBI is so slow in this. They should have done this in the 1st two days of the girls missing.

Sloppy work, I guess or less man-power.