IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[otto]

It's not necessary, it's just another angle.

Adding extra people to what we know to be true doesn't seem to clarify the facts, but rather confuses them by introducing elements that are not supported by any facts. Maybe the perp or perps that abducted the children were aided by two teenage boys, or two teenage girls, or two moms pushing strollers, or people watering their lawns or ... the list goes on forever ... but there's nothing to suggest that anything except a perp or two were involved. What is it about teenage boys or girls or transients that makes it seem reasonable to add them to the facts?

 

[nursebeeme]

It's not necessary, it's just another angle.

And all sleuthing angles are welcome as long as they do not involve the family.

Who knows what happened here..

How can these two little girls be missing from this little town?

 

[MotherOcean]

How about this for a theory ... two girls leave home and want to ride to the lake, but they're not allowed. Therefore, they ride their bikes west from the house (that keeps grandma happy), turn left and head for the lake using the backroads, thinking that they can make the loop and be back before grandma notices. They get to the trail near the gate, someone steps through the gate and stops them. They're forced through the gate, Elizabeth's purse is put on the ground, they're forced into the Maiden Lane area (100 feet along the shore) and they're gone.

There are no teenagers, no boats ... just two girls, two bikes, a purse, a trail, a gate and that's it.

Yep, that's what I think happened; except I'm not sure if they went through Maiden Lane or not. I think they could have been taken around the other side of the wooded area through the grass. Either way, I think it's just that simple.

But, it's o.k. to speculate about other potential factors. We very well could be wrong. After all, it was LE that asked for the paddleboater to come forward & it was LE that released the statement today that was edited out of the article. So, we really don't know all that they know or all that they are considering. :moo:

 

[Sailorsgirl]

Why walk the girls a couple of hundred feet along the trail to get to the other side of the fence when the girls and bikes are right next to an unlocked gate that leads to the other side of the fence?

Otto, I can't remember if you're from the area or not, but from what Ollipop said it appears the shoreline is very rocky and might be hard to navigate with two girls. Please correct me if I'm wrong though. Also, I'm still trying to figure out the deal with the scent dogs.

 

[nursebeeme]

I think I posted in the early threads that I believed they stopped on the path when they saw something that interested them and got off their bikes and went toward the water.

I still tend to think that the guy that saw them frequently did see them that day as he was familiar with what they looked like and that the guy biking did almost run over their tossed aside bikes and maybe he is the one that leaned them against the fence so he could keep riding along the path.

The rest is a mystery to me. I tend to think they rode their bikes to that point...

The woods were not really searched in muster until later.. they could have been walking thru the woods with the perp to a vehicle at that point.

This case truly keeps me up at nights wondering who and how... I never ponder the why because I have learned over the years that pondering why never makes any sense.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Adding extra people to what we know to be true doesn't seem to clarify the facts, but rather confuses them by introducing elements that are not supported by any facts. Maybe the perp or perps that abducted the children were aided by two teenage boys, or two teenage girls, or two moms pushing strollers, or people watering their lawns or ... the list goes on forever ... but there's nothing to suggest that anything except a perp or two were involved. What is it about teenage boys or girls or transients that makes it seem reasonable to add them to the facts?

While I'm inclined to agree with you, the reason the teens/transients angle came up was due to the edited comment from earlier. I think we were looking at the possibility that someone may have played a "minor" part or "unknowing" part in the crime.

MOO.

 

[Jules71]

Still catching up today but wanted to post this right away. Cached page of kcrg's new article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...zabeth--Lyric-Four-Weeks-Later-165745756.html

 

[Beyond Belief]

We all have to bear in mind just how fast an abduction happens. Two off the top my head both adult women.
One taking a walk on a country road talking to bf on cell, says someone is following her, truck stops, she says, 'don't take me'. just like that shes gone
Second goes into Target to buy wrapping paper, is followed around store, walks out to her car loading up her packages, out of no where perp pushes her into her car takes keys and they are gone. All of us saw that tape.

My point is abduction is very fast.

 

[Confusion]

I think I posted in the early threads that I believed they stopped on the path when they saw something that interested them and got off their bikes and went toward the water.

I still tend to think that the guy that saw them frequently did see them that day as he was familiar with what they looked like and that the guy biking did almost run over their tossed aside bikes and maybe he is the one that leaned them against the fence so he could keep riding along the path.

The rest is a mystery to me. I tend to think they rode their bikes to that point...

The woods were not really searched in muster until later.. they could have been walking thru the woods with the perp to a vehicle at that point.

This case truly keeps me up at nights wondering who and how... I never ponder the why because I have learned over the years that pondering why never makes any sense.

BBM

I think it's safe to say that if the why ever starts making sense to you, it'll be time to start looking into some professional help. I can't really think of any good reason to do what these people do.

 

[Jules71]

Reporter: Can you move the timeline up from the 12:15 with Grandma?

LE Spokesperson: No, that's the last time we have is at two.
--or--
LE Spokesperson: No, that's the last time we have it at too.
LE Spokesperson: No, that is the last time we have it at also.

I was listening to this presser and never noticed the two or too - my overall feeling from listening is that he was agreeing that the last time they have is what everyone else has heard (12:15).

 

[kai]

Still catching up today but wanted to post this right away. Cached page of kcrg's new article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...zabeth--Lyric-Four-Weeks-Later-165745756.html

View attachment 25488

Wow, has it really been FOUR WEEKS? That seems impossible. Where are these girls? Are there any other photos other than the 2 on the posters that I keep seeing? I haven't read every thread here but the only photos I keep seeing of them are the same 2. Sometimes it helps to have some other facial angle shots and different expressions.

I sure hope these 2 girls come home ok.

 

[Jules71]

Yes. I agree. also wearing black, right? i wonder if there is a business in the area where that it the uniform shirt.

maybe the lurker was the mastermind or just standing by if more force was needed.

Good question about work shirts/uniforms.

I agree that it looks like both bike riders on the cctv were wearing dark colored shirts. Grandma said Elizabeth was wearing a white t-shirt.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I read the article in People magazine today. It had really nice pics of Lyric and Elizabeth, and a decent story. The one thing that really bugged me was NO WHERE in the article did I see a phone number for people to call in tips. I hope I just missed it somehow.

 

[GrainneDhu]

While I'm inclined to agree with you, the reason the teens/transients angle came up was due to the edited comment from earlier. I think we were looking at the possibility that someone may have played a "minor" part or "unknowing" part in the crime.

MOO.

I tend to think of something more like an innocent person loaned their vehicle to the perp that day. Or called him in sick. Or bought a used vehicle soon afterwards.

Things that happen every day and are completely or mostly innocent... but weren't on that day with that person.

 

[MotherOcean]

Still catching up today but wanted to post this right away. Cached page of kcrg's new article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...zabeth--Lyric-Four-Weeks-Later-165745756.html

View attachment 25488

So now we can see that they also removed a link to the press release.

This is total speculation and probably doesn't fit at all... BUT... what if someone "helped" the girls in some way... like, what if they "helped" them to run-away or "helped" them to go somewhere that they (or one of them) wanted to go and what if LE doesn't think that person(s) intended for it all to end up like this, with the girls now gone, disappeared, with no trace. I could so develop this train of thought, but might brush too close to being against the rules. So I won't. But, I can see it in my mind!!

 

[otto]

Otto, I can't remember if you're from the area or not, but from what Ollipop said it appears the shoreline is very rocky and might be hard to navigate with two girls. Please correct me if I'm wrong though. Also, I'm still trying to figure out the deal with the scent dogs.

I'm not from the area. It's hard to tell. The picture taken on July 14 seems to show shoreline before the lake was drained. This is a close up cropped portion of the original photo.

 

[Thespyma]

What kind of evidence would take 3-4 weeks to process? I guess it really doesn't matter, because I'm sure LE won't release any info about what it was. MOO

Depending in number of samples and other factors, DNA can take a month or so...and LE would not release the info. That info, especially if it is important to a case against someone(s) in particular would not be released to the public but reserved for official use. We would not be privy to the results or even know when the results are back...they could be back already.

 

[Confusion]

I'm not from the area. It's hard to tell. The picture taken on July 14 seems to show shoreline before the lake was drained. This is a close up cropped portion of the original photo.

I've looked at those pictures dozens of times, but I noticed something this time that hadn't occurred to me the other times. If the girls had gone through the gate and along the shore, they could have easily been right where the purse was found when TG went by, and I don't think he would have seen any sign of them.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Did the bike rider come in the same gate they did or was he going out?

 

[nursebeeme]

BBM

I think it's safe to say that if the why ever starts making sense to you, it'll be time to start looking into some professional help. I can't really think of any good reason to do what these people do.

amen to that.. and actually that is usually my mantra here... it is not rational to put your mind into that of a perp.. they do not think the way that "normal" people" do.