IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[CoeTrawk]

Coe, you're a local right?

Would the lake be slightly downhill from the Auction house?

Yea, slightly.

 

[MotherOcean]

First the boat, then cocoa, now horses?:truce:

How did I miss cocoa??

 

[nikb]

I don't think the girls ever went back home either. However, I don't find it odd that the girls would open a cold drink only to leave it to go bike riding. It's like a tee-shirt I once saw: I have ADHD.... oh look there goes a chicken. I do think the grandmother did see them around the time of the camera stamp, but from one picture of the camera did it not show the Collins' house in the background? Could be the grandmother had a perfect little view of where the girls usually rode, looked out and saw them from a distance and thought they were coming home? She goes back in the house and realizes a little later, "Wait the girls aren't here yet. I just saw them." Then she begins to panic.

ETA: Never mind. She saw them in the back of Lederman's.

True. I have to keep reminding myself to think like an 8 and 10 year old. Pouring V8 then "betcha I can beat you around the block!" and off they go racing on their bikes. Possibly.

I remember reading from locals on here that the Collins house was just barely out of view in the camera, but it sounded like you could've seen the area they were riding in the surveillance video from the house. As the g'ma I can easily see getting sidetracked with something - other kids, cleaning, getting ready for lunch, making sure HC was ready for her appointment, etc. - and then realizing it's been awhile since you saw the girls. The full glasses of juice on the counter could've even prompted the thought.

 

[MotherOcean]

Well, I never personally bought into the paddleboat story, and the cocoa was brought up by someone else. But the horses thing was just an idea someone threw out to possibly explain what could have happened. I don't think we should disregard anyone's ideas at this point.

I may have been the first one to throw out the idea of horses. But, I was brainstorming and it was really late and hey... who knows? Crazier things have happened. But, now I'm wondering if an ATV doesn't make more sense. For the record, I do not believe in UFO's. :cheerful:

 

[craftybatchy]

Are those Gma's exact words or was the reporter/author paraphrasing ? Why wouldn't she just say ''got something to drink'' ? At first glance, the inclusion of what they drank and the fact that it was cold seem like unnecessary details (jmho).

 

[MNDad]

Yes, but if you make a call on it, is the time recorded for billing set by ATT or by how you personally set the time? I would think the ping on the cell towers is what determines the time a call was actually made, not what you program yourself...otherwise, one could set your phone hours off and make calls that show up on different days even...MOO

I don't know but I suspect that it is AT&T time and not device time. This is important for Mr G timing, but for Mr P time, there was no call to reference.

 

[Aunt B]

I'm not quite caught up yet for today, but wanted to quickly post some ideas regarding some posts in the last few pages before I fall any further behind.

1. As I've stated, I don't believe the bikes were staged. But let's pretend for a second that they were (because a lot of posts in the last several pages appear to be discussing this possibility)...what about fingerprints? I mean, what are the odds that a perp not only went through the trouble to stage the bikes, but also *wore gloves* while doing so? No gloves equals prints left behind... LE would know if there were prints, of course...and since they're not talking, we'd never know. But, if a perp was going to go through ALL the thought and trouble to stage the bikes...are we being logical to also think he'd do it with bare hands? Wouldn't prints make him much more vulnerable to eventual capture...and on the flipside, wouldn't wearing gloves on an extremely hot day make him very susceptible to being remembered by ANY witness who may have seen him at some point in the Meyer's Lake vicinity?

2. The possibility has been discussed that the girls rode back over near the house (12:15 sighting) to kind of "fool" grandma into thinking they were just doing what they'd said they'd be doing. I've been a mom a long time...4 children of my own and have watched many others as they've grown up. I have never, ever known an 8 or 10 year old who would think of something that elaborately deceptive in order to "throw off" whoever their responsible adult is so they'd "buy" themselves time to run off and do something disallowed. Not saying it couldn't happen....but I've spent every single day of the past 20 plus years around a lot of different kids, and I've never known kids that young to behave that elaborately. Personally. So again...not impossible...especially if one of the girls happened to be particularly precocious...but, my belief is that specific plan of deception would be really unusual for a child that young.

My opinion only, of course.

Thoughts?

 

[nikb]

Are those Gma's exact words or was the reporter/author paraphrasing ? Why wouldn't she just say ''got something to drink'' ? At first glance, the inclusion of what they drank and the fact that it was cold seem like unnecessary details (jmho).

I'm not sure which quote you mean, but if it's the one I was talking about from People mag. it was from the reporter. I wish I could just type up the whole article here, but I think it's a copyright violation. I'm asking the mods if I can at least scan it and post the scan. I believe it's ok to post portions of the article.

Specifically about the V8 the article says

"This being a hot morning in Evansdale, Iowa, they poured two cold glasses of V8 Splash and set them on the kitchen counter in Elizabeth's house, at the ready for when they worked up a sweat."

<snip>
"When an hour passed and the girls hadn't reclaimed their drinks, Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, 36 and the girls' grandmother, Wylma Cook, 72, circled the town in separate cars then anxiously reported them missing."

 

[Beyond Belief]

I would like to know whats going on down at Hanson Lake. Its very remote and close by, actually just down River Rd. Google earth shows something going on back there. Business like, i mean. I think earlier someone said that area had been flooded and the bridge had to be replaced. That property also is on the river. I found it accidently when searching real estate for sale in that area. The property was 80 acres with a 40 acre lake. The photo showed Hanson Lake, but the directions seemed different.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not quite caught up yet for today, but wanted to quickly post some ideas regarding some posts in the last few pages before I fall any further behind.

1. As I've stated, I don't believe the bikes were staged. But let's pretend for a second that they were (because a lot of posts in the last several pages appear to be discussing this possibility)...what about fingerprints? I mean, what are the odds that a perp not only went through the trouble to stage the bikes, but also *wore gloves* while doing so? No gloves equals prints left behind... LE would know if there were prints, of course...and since they're not talking, we'd never know. But, if a perp was going to go through ALL the thought and trouble to stage the bikes...are we being logical to also think he'd do it with bare hands? Wouldn't prints make him much more vulnerable to eventual capture...and on the flipside, wouldn't wearing gloves on an extremely hot day make him very susceptible to being remembered by ANY witness who may have seen him at some point in the Meyer's Lake vicinity?

2. The possibility has been discussed that the girls rode back over near the house (12:15 sighting) to kind of "fool" grandma into thinking they were just doing what they'd said they'd be doing. I've been a mom a long time...4 children of my own and have watched many others as they've grown up. I have never, ever known an 8 or 10 year old who would think of something that elaborately deceptive in order to "throw off" whoever their responsible adult is so they'd "buy" themselves time to run off and do something disallowed. Not saying it couldn't happen....but I've spent every single day of the past 20 plus years around a lot of different kids, and I've never known kids that young to behave that elaborately. Personally. So again...not impossible...especially if one of the girls happened to be particularly precocious...but, my belief is that specific plan of deception would be really unusual for a child that young.

My opinion only, of course.

Thoughts?

:goodpost:

 

[Sunlight]

I'm not sure which quote you mean, but if it's the one I was talking about from People mag. it was from the reporter. I wish I could just type up the whole article here, but I think it's a copyright violation. I'm asking the mods if I can at least scan it and post the scan. I believe it's ok to post portions of the article.

Specifically about the V8 the article says

"This being a hot morning in Evansdale, Iowa, they poured two cold glasses of V8 Splash and set them on the kitchen counter in Elizabeth's house, at the ready for when they worked up a sweat."

<snip>
"When an hour passed and the girls hadn't reclaimed their drinks, Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, 36 and the girls' grandmother, Wylma Cook, 72, circled the town in separate cars then anxiously reported them missing."

All I can say is...where did the reporter get that info? Sounds like they halfway made stuff up.. It seems pretty skewed from what has been said previously.

 

[MNDad]

I know the horse thing was just thrown in with a list of other bait items like puppies, but I think everyone should explore that notion on their own and surf away from WS for a few minutes to see if it makes them think a certain way. I have and it has changed my thinking entirely.

 

[CoeTrawk]

All I can say is...where did the reporter get that info? Sounds like they halfway made stuff up.. It seems pretty skewed from what has been said previously.

Like "hot morning"... I feel like that was the coolest temp day in all of July... but who knows...

On another note, I'm off to the store to buy People magazine for the first time ever.

 

[nikb]

All I can say is...where did the reporter get that info? Sounds like they halfway made stuff up.. It seems pretty skewed from what has been said previously.

I agree, and have no idea where they got the info, probably family? Early reports that have now changed? I do remember hearing about V8 before, and the 3:40 time sounded familiar too but now I can't find anything about that time other than the People article. It's so hard to say.

There were a number of things in the article that were like that, not exactly "wrong" but just kind of off a bit from what we've heard before. I wouldn't doubt the reporter added to the story to make it flow better ("two cold glasses of V8 Splash <snip> at the ready for when they worked up a sweat" is more exciting than "the girls usually stopped to get a drink."). I don't think the things that were 'off' were super important in terms of finding the girls, other than the article not including the tip-line number. It is confusing for those of us who've been analyzing what feels like every single detail of this case though.

I'm still very glad for the publicity and the fact that somehow they managed to get 2 pages in such a widely distributed magazine.

 

[nikb]

Like "hot morning"... I feel like that was the coolest temp day in all of July... but who knows...

On another note, I'm off to the store to buy People magazine for the first time ever.

lol... I'm sorry I shouldn't be laughing, this is a serious thing, but the last few hours I feel like I've been selling V8 and People mag! Sorry about that. I don't work for either one and didn't intend to be giving a sales pitch for either of them.

Related to the temperature I agree with you. I thought it was supposedly one of the cooler days they've had. If it was humid it might still feel pretty hot but I thought the high was low 80s (I'll try to find the link again). That's certainly hot but sounds like a mild day compared to how it is there sometimes in mid-July.

 

[otto]

Are you willing to at least accept the possibility that the FBI made a mistake in referring to a runner rather than a biker? Not trying to be snarky at all, by the way, just curious. Because I've been assuming all along it was just a misstatement, but maybe I've been looking at it wrong.

Perhaps "person that runs the trail daily" really means "person that cycles the trail from Waterloo". Photos of the cyclist didn't lead me to think that he was an avid cyclist, but perhaps he is. I don't know what to think. I can't make much sense out of the timeline given the times we have, as it simply doesn't add up. If we take the video time per the owner of the camera and the phone call per the cyclist, there's only a one minute gap. We have to stretch both times in different directions to give the girls time to cycle to the lake, get to the SE tip, ditch their bikes and disappear on the shore by the double gate. Only then can we say that the FBI mean "cyclist" when they say "someone that runs daily".

 

[nikb]

1. As I've stated, I don't believe the bikes were staged. But let's pretend for a second that they were (because a lot of posts in the last several pages appear to be discussing this possibility)...what about fingerprints? I mean, what are the odds that a perp not only went through the trouble to stage the bikes, but also *wore gloves* while doing so? No gloves equals prints left behind... LE would know if there were prints, of course...and since they're not talking, we'd never know. But, if a perp was going to go through ALL the thought and trouble to stage the bikes...are we being logical to also think he'd do it with bare hands? Wouldn't prints make him much more vulnerable to eventual capture...and on the flipside, wouldn't wearing gloves on an extremely hot day make him very susceptible to being remembered by ANY witness who may have seen him at some point in the Meyer's Lake vicinity?<snipped for space>

I'm with you, I really don't believe they were staged, but trying to keep my mind open to the possibilities as it sounds like you are. IF they were staged yes I would think the person was smart enough to wear gloves. I think they could have potentially been wearing biking gloves without it looking out of place. Yes the fingertips are still exposed, but if someone was cautious they could probably move the bikes without touching it with their fingertips.

Or... if there are prints, the person is someone familiar to the girls whose prints wouldn't be out of place on the bikes. (please note I am not sleuthing anyone or thinking of anyone in particular with this statement, it's just a thought)

 

[CoeTrawk]

lol... I'm sorry I shouldn't be laughing, this is a serious thing, but the last few hours I feel like I've been selling V8 and People mag! Sorry about that. I don't work for either one and didn't intend to be giving a sales pitch for either of them.

Related to the temperature I agree with you. I thought it was supposedly one of the cooler days they've had. If it was humid it might still feel pretty hot but I thought the high was low 80s (I'll try to find the link again). That's certainly hot but sounds like a mild day compared to how it is there sometimes in mid-July.

Actually I couldn't get it - they've already got the August 27 issue on the shelves. Yes, we now live in a world where the August 20 issue of a magazine is obsolete on August 16.

We had a ridiculous heatwave here in July. Day after day in the 100 degree range. Even if that day was only 80, each person has their own lower limit to when they might feel they should have a glass of V8 waiting for them, so its probably meaningless to read too much into it. (By the way: what? They poured it and then left it on the counter for later? Do people do that?) Oops, just broke my own rule.

How I wish LE would just give us a hint.

 

[otto]

But the average cyclist would be riding well under 8:00/mile. I think anyone with a pulse can ride a mile in 8 minutes. For some its easier than others, sure. But I believe even our girls could do it if they weren't dillydallying.

If we look at the statement from the camera owner, the author of 8 minutes, the girls not only need to ride 1.5 miles, but they need to drop their bikes and vanish. Personally, I'm not seeing where the 8 minutes came from.

He said that his camera, which recorded the girls at 12:11, is 8 minutes slow and in the same article, we read that the cyclist saw the bikes, but no children, at 12:20. According to my calculations, that leaves one minute, not eight.

 

[otto]

This is why I think they went to the lake to meet someone who was already there with their own bikes, and those are the bikes the biker man saw.

There has been no description of the bikes released to the public from either person (biker and LE/fireman) that found them that I am aware of. I find it strange that the bike's descriptions have not been made public when LE/FBI/FAMILY has requested the community to report any knowledge, witnesses or sightings of the girls on the day they disappeared.

The bike colors were posted here quite a while ago ... one is purple, the other is red.