IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[GrainneDhu]

So, he TURNED DOWN the plea deal and DOESN'T HAVE TO TESTIFY AGAINST ANYONE ELSE?

Not to be snarky, but I'm confused....

What happens in the trial and why have one? How does he defend himself by not implicating others? Does he just give in and go to trial, not testify, and take the judgement and sentence? Does he hope and pray that he gets off on a technicality?

IMOO...It seems like a lot of "delaying" the inevitable, especially considering his daughter is missing!

From the defendant's point of view, a plea bargain is often the offer to trade time in prison for testimony in court against other potential defendants.

The nuts'n'bolts of a plea bargain go something like this: one side or the other (usually the defendant) makes a proffer to the other side. The proffer is phrased in hypothetical terms and is not sworn testimony, so it cannot be used at trial if the negotiations for a plea bargain fall through.

So, for example, a proffer from the defendant might go "so, let's say that my client, Ms So-and-so, could hypothetically testify that Joe Big Fish did this, that and the other thing in front of her. If, hypothetically speaking, my client were prepared to testify to this in court, would the prosecutor be willing to agree to her guilty plea on X charge for a sentence of Y years and all but 4 months suspended?"

The problem with the idea of defending one's self at trial by implicating someone else is that it's very rare to have knowledge about an illegal activity without being, at the very least, an accomplice to that activity and hence, just as guilty as the person who committed the act. So saying you're not guilty of robbing the bank because you were driving the getaway car is not a viable defence. You didn't go in and scare the nice bank teller but you knew it was going to happen and your actions contributed to the crime as a whole; you're just as guilty as the guy who went in there with the gun and scared the bank teller.

Viable defences might include impeaching any witnesses the prosecution brings, giving an alibi for the time of the crime, challenging forensic evidence, etc. Most of the time, defendants do not and they should not testify on their own behalf.

I don't think DM's continuances are unreasonable. It will be much more difficult for him to cooperate with LE should he be in prison (any prisoner known to be meeting with LE is risking their life for being assumed to be a snitch). And under the circumstances, I imagine he really is not able to ably assist in his own defence (and that would be a valid grounds for appeal).

Sorry about writing a novella on this and I hope it's clear. If it isn't, please ask again and I'll try again to explain it.

 

[Elley Mae]

The original "5" comment was by me, and has been completely taken out of context.

I personally have no clue how many officers Evansdale have.

I was merely pointing out that the Evansdale LE did everything right in this investigation, from day one, in response to criticism they had "wasted time" draining the lake.

I was trying to illustrate that even though they were a (comparatively) small department they handled this very, very well from the first hour, and that they only had so many trained staff available to do so.

Somehow this has been interpreted as an insult which is the OPPOSITE of my intention.

I was there that day, I stand behind this post as fact.

 

[Tucarra]

I don't think Dan DIRECTLY had anything to do with the disappearance, but I believe his affiliations and criminal background had EVERYTHING to do with it!

He changed his plea THE DAY BEFORE the girl's went missing, which will result in a trial, thus implicating other people.

The "other people", as well as Dan have already benefited...the trial has been delayed twice.

In my opinion, Dan was "the middle man" in a much broader drug/criminal ring that involved many "players" and "other people" in higher levels of a drug ring. These "other people" would be able to pull off a successful abduction/disappearance and cover their tracks, elude LE/FBI, and silence witnesses or other "players" through intimidation, fear, and/or money.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Fath...-in-Court-Friday-163986616.html?m=y&smobile=y

Quote: "Cook said Morrissey had been expected to accept a plea agreement July 12, the day before the girls vanished, but decided not to do so because he was not ready to go jail. She said prosecutors had shaved his sentence from more than 45 years to 30 years and then to 10 years, with a mandatory five years behind bars, because of his cooperation." 45 years to 5 years??? HMMM

I am sure Dan's talking and identifying some "other people" and "players".

Somewhere there are "other people", who are not strange, random predators...there is no such thing as a 'coincidence'....99.999999% of the time....

 

[MNDad]

The attached image shows how close the Collins' home is in relationship to the Casey's that MCM was working at that day. If I stood on the corner near Casey's, I could actually see a portion of the Collins' home.

If the girls were biking in front of the buildings on Lafyette, I would think that MCM could see them if she was looking out the window at the right time.

I know the answer to the question "Have we seen any other videos?" What I don't know the answer to is "Are there other videos?" If the Casey's on River Forest had cameras pointing at the pumps and you could see the street from those images, did the Casey's on Lafyette have cameras too? Mom had just started working at a place that sells candy and she is just a stones throw away from the house, you would think the girls would have stopped by, but we haven't heard anything along those lines.

So my final question is "why do we think they may have rode in front of the stores to get to the trail?"

 

[hambirg]

The thing is, it's good news for anyone that DM may have been able to implicate because he'd already turned down the plea bargain. Plea bargains in meth cases in Iowa are usually offered contingent on testifying against one or more other people.

Turning down the plea bargain means that DM does not have to testify against anyone else. It probably means that he won't testify at all, since "they were all guilty as sin but I didn't do anything wrong" is not a viable defence.

The plea bargain he turned down is pretty typical in Iowa meth cases. There's nothing about the prison time proposed that raises my eyebrows. I've seen so many other cases with similar plea bargains in the last 15 years.

Abducting Elizabeth and Lyric just meant that DM probably turned over to LE every single detail he had on anyone.

If the perp abducted Elizabeth and Lyric to try to prevent DM from giving LE information, they did the equivalent of shooting themselves in the foot while standing on a banana peel with the other.

As for the continuances granted, they probably would have been granted anyway due to the sudden change of plea. His attorney would have said that there hadn't been enough time to prepare the case, the judge would have said okay, here's your new date. Again, I've seen a bunch of meth cases in Iowa in the last 15 years and I honestly can't remember a single case that went to trial where one side or the other didn't request at least one continuance.

Judges tend to be pretty understanding about continuances because they don't want to leave it as grounds for appeal.

If this had been a fifth or sixth continuance, I'd think there was something odd going on. But two continuances? That's nothing.

Because simply thanking this post wasn't enough. I'm not familiar with how things work in IA, but I totally agree with your post.

It makes NO sense to me that the girls would be taken to suppress any testimony from DM. It seems to me that it would likely cause the opposite. If that was the motive, I think it is much more likely that DM would have been found out in some corn field with a gunshot to the head and some pieces missing.

MOO

 

[hambirg]

The attached image shows how close the Collins' home is in relationship to the Casey's that MCM was working at that day. If I stood on the corner near Casey's, I could actually see a portion of the Collins' home.

If the girls were biking in front of the buildings on Lafyette, I would think that MCM could see them if she was looking out the window at the right time.

I know the answer to the question "Have we seen any other videos?" What I don't know the answer to is "Are there other videos?" If the Casey's on River Forest had cameras pointing at the pumps and you could see the street from those images, did the Casey's on Lafyette have cameras too? Mom had just started working at a place that sells candy and she is just a stones throw away from the house, you would think the girls would have stopped by, but we haven't heard anything along those lines.

So my final question is "why do we think they may have rode in front of the stores to get to the trail?"

I'm confused. I thought MCM was working at a Casey's in Elk Run.

 

[otto]

The attached image shows how close the Collins' home is in relationship to the Casey's that MCM was working at that day. If I stood on the corner near Casey's, I could actually see a portion of the Collins' home.

If the girls were biking in front of the buildings on Lafyette, I would think that MCM could see them if she was looking out the window at the right time.

I know the answer to the question "Have we seen any other videos?" What I don't know the answer to is "Are there other videos?" If the Casey's on River Forest had cameras pointing at the pumps and you could see the street from those images, did the Casey's on Lafyette have cameras too? Mom had just started working at a place that sells candy and she is just a stones throw away from the house, you would think the girls would have stopped by, but we haven't heard anything along those lines.

So my final question is "why do we think they may have rode in front of the stores to get to the trail?"

The last time that the grandmother saw the girls was when they were riding bikes towards the old post office, which is in the strip mall. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were riding towards the trail, only that they were riding where they normally did, and that included the strip mall to the East of the house - that's my understanding. I don't think that seeing the girls ride towards the old post office was a cause for concern.

If the girls passed in front of the Casey's, they may have been caught on camera - depending on camera locations and whether vehicles blocked the view.

 

[Jax49]

The attached image shows how close the Collins' home is in relationship to the Casey's that MCM was working at that day. If I stood on the corner near Casey's, I could actually see a portion of the Collins' home.

If the girls were biking in front of the buildings on Lafyette, I would think that MCM could see them if she was looking out the window at the right time.

I know the answer to the question "Have we seen any other videos?" What I don't know the answer to is "Are there other videos?" If the Casey's on River Forest had cameras pointing at the pumps and you could see the street from those images, did the Casey's on Lafyette have cameras too? Mom had just started working at a place that sells candy and she is just a stones throw away from the house, you would think the girls would have stopped by, but we haven't heard anything along those lines.

So my final question is "why do we think they may have rode in front of the stores to get to the trail?"

Was MCM working on Lafyette that day? According to this article she worked at the one in Elk Run Heights.

Quote:

The new photos came from the Evansdale Casey's on River Forest Road. Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey, works at another Casey's in Elk Run Heights

http://www.ktiv.com/story/19174082/...hite-astro-van-in-missing-girls-investigation

 

[Simp]

I'm confused. I thought MCM was working at a Casey's in Elk Run.

Oh my, I thought that too!! The Casey's on the above map is the one that white van guy went to. The guy that was cleared by LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The attached image shows how close the Collins' home is in relationship to the Casey's that MCM was working at that day. If I stood on the corner near Casey's, I could actually see a portion of the Collins' home.

If the girls were biking in front of the buildings on Lafyette, I would think that MCM could see them if she was looking out the window at the right time.

I know the answer to the question "Have we seen any other videos?" What I don't know the answer to is "Are there other videos?" If the Casey's on River Forest had cameras pointing at the pumps and you could see the street from those images, did the Casey's on Lafyette have cameras too? Mom had just started working at a place that sells candy and she is just a stones throw away from the house, you would think the girls would have stopped by, but we haven't heard anything along those lines.

So my final question is "why do we think they may have rode in front of the stores to get to the trail?"

All the Caseys are much alike.

I thought Misty was working at the Casey's in Elk Run, another suburb of Waterloo that also shares a boundary with Evansdale. It's just a few miles from the Collins house.

The only reason I think the girls didn't ride in front of any cctv cameras to get to the bicycle trail is because the clip from the back of Cornbelt Auctions was identified as the last confirmed sighting of the girls.

I suppose it is possible that there were other sightings of bicyclists from other cameras but those sightings were even worse quality than the Cornbelt Auctions one. Hard to imagine, that one was pretty bad.

 

[otto]

Oh my, I thought that too!! The Casey's on the above map is the one that white van guy went to. The guy that was cleared by LE.

The Casey's with the white van was on River Forest Road near Meyers Lake.

 

[otto]

All the Caseys are much alike.

I thought Misty was working at the Casey's in Elk Run, another suburb of Waterloo that also shares a boundary with Evansdale. It's just a few miles from the Collins house.

The only reason I think the girls didn't ride in front of any cctv cameras to get to the bicycle trail is because the clip from the back of Cornbelt Auctions was identified as the last confirmed sighting of the girls.

I suppose it is possible that there were other sightings of bicyclists from other cameras but those sightings were even worse quality than the Cornbelt Auctions one. Hard to imagine, that one was pretty bad.

The last camera capture of them may have been behind Cornbelt Auctions, but the last time the grandmother saw them was heading towards the old post office. This is what the grandmother said about the girls bike ride:

"VELEZ-MITCHELL: When they`ve gone off before, how long did they usually stay out? And would they stay more in the immediate area?

COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.

...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wilma, did you see them bike off? Did you see them get on their bikes and head out?

COOK: Yes. And they went to the parking lot where the post office is. "

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

Because simply thanking this post wasn't enough. I'm not familiar with how things work in IA, but I totally agree with your post.

It makes NO sense to me that the girls would be taken to suppress any testimony from DM. It seems to me that it would likely cause the opposite. If that was the motive, I think it is much more likely that DM would have been found out in some corn field with a gunshot to the head and some pieces missing.

MOO

<BLUSH> Thank you.

If DM had turned down the plea bargain after the girls were abducted, that would be suspicious as all get out and I'm sure LE would have seen it the same way.

By turning down the plea bargain, DM was essentially withdrawing his attorney's proffer. If there was someone who would benefit, that person benefitted when DM turned down the plea bargain.

 

[otto]

If they first rode towards the old post office, then circled around and passed by the camera, did they then continue for a second loop and disappear? If they were heading towards the trail, why would they first ride to towards the old post office, then be seen by the camera? They should have continued from the post office to the Evansdale Nature Trail if they intended to go to Meyers Lake ... but it seems that they were seen going West behind Cornbelt Auction after first going East. That certainly explains Abben's comment about the girls going in the wrong direction.

 

[Sunlight]

Is their church in the same parking lot as Cornbelt Auctions? MOO

 

[hambirg]

Is their church in the same parking lot as Cornbelt Auctions? MOO

Idk the answer to that, but I noticed that there is a Vineyard church across Lafayette from Cornbelt too. :waitasec:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Misty does (did?) work at the Elk Run Caseys...a brand new job that week, I believe.


The new photos came from the Evansdale Casey's on River Forest Road. Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey, works at another Casey's in Elk Run Heights.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19174082/...hite-astro-van-in-missing-girls-investigation

 

[SapphireSteel]

If they first rode towards the old post office, then circled around and passed by the camera, did they then continue for a second loop and disappear? If they were heading towards the trail, why would they first ride to towards the old post office, then be seen by the camera? They should have continued from the post office to the Evansdale Nature Trail if they intended to go to Meyers Lake ... but it seems that they were seen going West behind Cornbelt Auction after first going East. That certainly explains Abben's comment about the girls going in the wrong direction.

Early on I asked for clarification on this from locals.

It boiled down to this (I have problems with direction)...they were biking AWAY from their house.

The lake is at right angles so neither way is the "wrong way".

Is this correct? Can another local confirm?

It occurred to me that MAYBE they had returned home at around 12.10 (as expected) but went back out again on some sort of "mission".

:cow:

 

[LaylaD]

It occurred to me that MAYBE they had returned home at around 12.10 (as expected) but went back out again on some sort of "mission".

:cow:

I've speculated that EC forgot her purse/bag, and that they went back out to get it. Including telling Gma that they left it at a 'park.' Which could explain why Gma expected the girls back in just 10 mins or so and got worried and started looking at ~12:30. And, why after checking all the other parks possibly why Aunt T thought of checking the lake, as it was the park remaining that hadn't been checked yet. (I know with all the focus on the 'creepy part' of the bike path I forget that there is a playground by the patking lot.)

 

[RNER]

If they first rode towards the old post office, then circled around and passed by the camera, did they then continue for a second loop and disappear? If they were heading towards the trail, why would they first ride to towards the old post office, then be seen by the camera? They should have continued from the post office to the Evansdale Nature Trail if they intended to go to Meyers Lake ... but it seems that they were seen going West behind Cornbelt Auction after first going East. That certainly explains Abben's comment about the girls going in the wrong direction.

If you eliminate TG's sighting (because it hasn't been considered "official"), they could have been biking anywhere and in any direction from when they were captured on video to the time Mr C saw them as late as 3:00 and/or when the bikes were located by LE/Fireman close to 4:00.

I think the only thing the video confirms is that the girls were there at that time. Of course, that is all that has been released publicly!