IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[Elley Mae]

Graphic but.. if they were murdered where they were found then would it be possible to detect blood in the soil after this amount of time?

I would yes.

http://www.iuss.org/19th WCSS/Symposium/pdf/1172.pdf

http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/pdf/en/Dekens_and_Cheetham_EIGG_2008.pdf

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I'm lost. Who's blood in the soil are we hoping to find? If it is the girls, how would this help identify the killer? I know I am missing something obvious.

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

On the blood in soil, which I raised:

There is a lot of debate as to whether the girls were carried to, or murdered, where they were found. Also as to whether COD would be possible under some circumstances, depending on the state of the remains. COD and the primary crime scene are important to any investigation.

If the girls were murdered with a knife or a gun, where they were found, I would expect blood to have pooled beneath the bodies. This would then soak down into the ground. I wondered if blood was detectable in soil and this http://www.informaticaforense.us/detectingblood.pdf suggests yes it is, for longer than the girls have been missing.

If the girls were murdered elsewhere, there would be less blood at the scene.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.kwqc.com/story/20339011/family-of-1-of-2-iowa-cousins-to-speak-about-case

Drew Collins said that although the family may never find closure, they are determined to find who hurt the girls. He said he suspects the person may have been a sex offender.

"We want whoever is responsible to have to answer for what they've done," he said. "I think we'll get a little more closure then. We don't want this person to be able to hurt anybody else."

 

[chelsea6]

Doesn't surprise me because I think the perp is a lone wolf type. He may associate with other people but he doesn't have close friends. I think many of the people who know him think he's a bit weird but they would never guess he would do anything violent.

I also think that the person who has the little teeny piece of information to link all this together has not the faintest idea that what they know is important. It may not even be anything illegal, just knowing that someone was or wasn't in a certain place at a certain time.

And then after he is caught they'll put all the pieces together. :desert:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I was not able to watch the live coverage tonight of either the Life & Love Celebration or the coverage prior to it, and I cannot find anything on the news links except the Life & Love Celebration; nothing of the coverage beforehand? Could someone please provide a link? I would greatly appreciate it.

The coverage prior to the Life & Love Celebration was a live stream, so I don't know whether that was recorded at all. If I run across anything, I'll post it here for you.

There was an interview with Drew and Heather prior to the celebration, and I'm pretty sure there is a link to that somewhere. If you are interested in that, I'll look for it and post it here for you.

 

[chelsea6]

Lots of times situations start that they had gotten away with, and it just keeps progressing to murder.


Like decades ago this one guy I knew murdered, but this is what happened first. My friend and this guy and his friend stopped on the side of the road to hang out.Then when he went to start the car, it wouldn't go. He said he always had trouble with it. So he wanted me and my friend to get out of the backseat and "push" the car to get it going. We said no way, so his friend got out and pushed it himself. A few weeks later, they found a girl naked on a secluded gravel road, run over backward and forward. I'm thinking she just hadn't gotten dressed yet.. maybe she was really drunk. He told her to push the car, and because he was drunk had it in reverse by mistake and ran her over, then panicked and left her there. He never confessed, and got life in prison for it.

Maybe this guy or guys had taken little girls to this place before to.. (in their eyes), "have some fun". In reality.. molest them, then let them go like they had before and the girls never told on him/them. Maybe it wasn't even a kid before, maybe it was a teen/teenagers. Then something went totally wrong, and one of the guys compulsions got the best of him and killed one of the girls. That left them with a witness, he panicked, killed the other one too and left in a hurry.

Anyway that's just another theory to ponder.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't want to get all sidetracked into a political debate (personally - everyone else go right ahead if you want and it's within TOS, of course). But I did want to share this because it surprised me:

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Family-of-Elizabeth-Collins-Speak-About-Case-183431901.html

Snippet: "Drew Collins, who supports the death penalty, said the experience with Elizabeth did not change his views. “I’ve always believed in it,” he said. "

I'm somewhat surprised by that as well, given their talk about forgiveness. But maybe in their eyes there can be Christian forgiveness, but secular punishment, i.e., death penalty.

As I've mentioned before, I am originally from Texas, where more inmates are executed than in any other state. And yet, this is smack-dab in the Bible Belt. So obviously many people are able to reconcile their Christian values with the death penalty.

I wonder if Heather holds the same views as Drew on the death penalty?

 

[tlcya]

I'm somewhat surprised by that as well, given their talk about forgiveness. But maybe in their eyes there can be Christian forgiveness, but secular punishment, i.e., death penalty.

As I've mentioned before, I am originally from Texas, where more inmates are executed than in any other state. And yet, this is smack-dab in the Bible Belt. So obviously many people are able to reconcile their Christian values with the death penalty.

I wonder if Heather holds the same views as Drew on the death penalty?

I know many very devout Christians who hold the belief that God supports the idea that man should follow the laws of man and that the DP is an acceptable law of man. It seems like a contradiction but in their minds it makes total sense.

 

[dadgum]

link to the interview..
http://www.kwwl.com/category/130142/video-landing-page?clipId=8060551&topVideoCatNo=132414&autoStart=true

 

[Marilynilpa]

link to the interview..
http://www.kwwl.com/category/130142/video-landing-page?clipId=8060551&topVideoCatNo=132414&autoStart=true

O/T - dadgum, I love your avatar! I'm drinking my second cup of coffee, and sometimes feel like I worship the coffee pot!

 

[matou]

Sorry if this has been cleared up but has Elizabeth's body been released? Lyric's? I read a few days ago on here that Elizabeth's body had not been released yet.

 

[Squeeze]

Lots of times situatiions start that they had gotten away with, and it just keeps progressing to murder.


Like decades ago this one guy I knew murdered, but this is what happened first. My friend and this guy and his friend stopped on the side of the road to hang out.Then when he went to start the car, it wouldn't go. He said he always had trouble with it. So he wanted me and my friend to get out of the backseat and "push" the car to get it going. We said no way, so his friend got out and pushed it himself. A few weeks later, they found a girl naked on a secluded gravel road, run over backward and forward. I'm thinking she just hadn't gotten dressed yet.. maybe she was really drunk. He told her to push the car, and because he was drunk had it in reverse by mistake and ran her over, then panicked and left her there. He never confessed, and got life in prison for it.

Maybe this guy or guys had taken little girls to this place before to.. (in their eyes), "have some fun". In reality.. molest them, then let them go like they had before and the girls never told on him/them. Maybe it wasn't even a kid before, maybe it was a teen/teenagers. Then something went totally wrong, and one of the guys compulsions got the best of him and killed one of the girls. That left them with a witness, he panicked, killed the other one too and left in a hurry.

Anyway that's just another theory to ponder.

Murphy Road? Doctor's son? Can't remember the name.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Sorry if this has been cleared up but has Elizabeth's body been released? Lyric's? I read a few days ago on here that Elizabeth's body had not been released yet.

As far as I know, neither body has been released yet.

 

[Zoe Zo]

There was someone put to death very recently, I'll find the link, anyway it took something like 23 years.

23 years of legal battles and emotional turmoil for the family.

The family said "we are so thankful it's finally over", clearly indicating that the excrutiatingly long and drawn out process was even more agonising than losing their loved one in the first place.

But here is someone who waited 24 years to be set free for a crime he did not do.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201..._nina-morrison-dna-evidence-innocence-project

What happens when we put someone to death and later find out they were innocent? You can't bring that person back. Think of how that family feels.

Do a google search on "innocent man put to death" - you will come up with a few who were put to death and didn't do the crime.

I go back and forth on the death penalty. I see the good and the ugly of it. Sometimes, if I see a person who killed a child or did a horrible crime I want it but then again ~ what if later we find out we were wrong and put the wrong person to death. We cannot take that back.

 

[chelsea6]

gary frazier..sheila foley outside Oelwein. I can't remember which gravel road it was.

 

[passionflower]

Perp(s) are very dangerous to take the lives of 2 innocent little girls.
I have no compassion for perp(s) in this case at all.
Oh how I pray LE makes arrest(s) asap!

to locals are you afraid perp(s) will strike again??
or do you think this was just against this family?

 

[foxbluff]

It surely is. The DP is only scary for ordinary honest people.

It hasn't worked as a deterrent anytime over the last 300 years so there's no reason to believe it would start working now.

:dunno:

I agree the DP doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.

It does, however, stop the sob "in the chair."

 

[song22]

I have been following this case from the beginning, but only commented a very little. So many people on here have such amazing insights and ideas, not to mention the map skills and research abilities! When I heard the outcome, I broke down and sobbed. This was unexpected for me, because I thought I had more emotional distance to it and knew that the most likely outcome would be that they were killed. Yet, it hit me very powerfully when I heard the news. I live in Iowa and have children the same age. It was too close to home.

In the beginning, when I started following the case I looked up two men who were associates and coworkers of Misty and Dan and were sentenced to ten years in prison for conspiracy to distribute meth, based in part on plea agreements with Misty/Dan. http://www.iand.uscourts.gov/e-web/instructions.nsf/7ba05e5eef9d95e58625660900704c9f/5403b40bbf7b2f6b86256cb000548ebd?OpenDocument I wondered about that connection and the possibility of revenge. I also looked them up on facebook and immediately found one with a profile picture in which he was wearing a Friday the 13th style Hockey mask. That scared me, so I called it into the local and FBI tip lines. It's gone now, but with the information about the girl's probably being killed on Friday the 13th. I just thought of it again.

Also, a couple weeks ago a man in Evansdale set his rental room on fire and was charged with arson. I just wondered why he would set his own room on fire? Just made me wonder. There is so much random weirdness in the world, I know it's not likely to mean anything. I'm just throwing it out there, since there's so little right now.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I have been following this case from the beginning, but only commented a very little. So many people on here have such amazing insights and ideas, not to mention the map skills and research abilities! When I heard the outcome, I broke down and sobbed. This was unexpected for me, because I thought I had more emotional distance to it and knew that the most likely outcome would be that they were killed. Yet, it hit me very powerfully when I heard the news. I live in Iowa and have children the same age. It was too close to home.

In the beginning, when I started following the case I looked up two men who were associates and coworkers of Misty and Dan and were sentenced to ten years in prison for conspiracy to distribute meth, based in part on plea agreements with Misty/Dan. http://www.iand.uscourts.gov/e-web/instructions.nsf/7ba05e5eef9d95e58625660900704c9f/5403b40bbf7b2f6b86256cb000548ebd?OpenDocument I wondered about that connection and the possibility of revenge. I also looked them up on facebook and immediately found one with a profile picture in which he was wearing a Friday the 13th style Hockey mask. That scared me, so I called it into the local and FBI tip lines. It's gone now, but with the information about the girl's probably being killed on Friday the 13th. I just thought of it again.

Also, a couple weeks ago a man in Evansdale set his rental room on fire and was charged with arson. I just wondered why he would set his own room on fire? Just made me wonder. There is so much random weirdness in the world, I know it's not likely to mean anything. I'm just throwing it out there, since there's so little right now.

Thanks for your interesting post, it's always good when locals join us.

I hadn't read anything about the room fire, but I'm going to see what I can find. Like you said, it might mean nothing but I'd like to know who that person is.

ETA: Here's a link about the fire: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ma...cle_db48effc-a947-5083-9278-4dc0409ea497.html

It sounds like he may have set fires in a previous residence, so the fire doesn't appear to have anything to do with the girls.

 

[Squeeze]

gary frazier..sheila foley outside Oelwein. I can't remember which gravel road it was.

Ok - not the one I was thinking of. The one I'm thinking of happened behind Deery's/HyVee/Walmart in Waterloo.