IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[JaimeInLA]

I have always doubted the report from the lawn watering man and his wife, where they said that Elizabeth rode her bike to their street every night and that she visited with people on the block.

If the girls asked for directions to the park, then I think that someone told them that something special was going on at the park. I really doubt that they all-of-a-sudden decided to go there on their own, especially if they didn't know how to get there.

They were headed away from the house and away from Fareway store when they were seen on video. The Fareway store appears to be about a block East of the house. Maybe they turned right/South on River Forest Road, went one block, rode East to the Fareway store and then headed South on Elmer.

I can see a way both could be true. Put your mind inside the mind of a child. Elizabeth may have gone down to visit friends near Mr. C's house before. But if she had never been beyond there, she may not have even realized there was a like just beyond their houses. Or, if she knew there was a lake, she probably didn't know it was "Meyers Lake."

My daughter would say, "let's go to the park." But if I asked her to tell me the name of the park, there is no way she could, and she is almost 10. So when someone said something exciting is happening at Meyers Lake, Elizabeth probably just didn't realize she had been there before.

 

[otto]

I can see a way both could be true. Put your mind inside the mind of a child. Elizabeth may have gone down to visit friends near Mr. C's house before. But if she had never been beyond there, she may not have even realized there was a like just beyond their houses. Or, if she knew there was a lake, she probably didn't know it was "Meyers Lake."

My daughter would say, "let's go to the park." But if I asked her to tell me the name of the park, there is no way she could, and she is almost 10. So when someone said something exciting is happening at Meyers Lake, Elizabeth probably just didn't realize she had been there before.

The family has said that Elizabeth had been to the Meyers Lake a couple of times with two girls that lived nearby.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Just a theory based upon the rumor...Lizzie and Lyric, riding their bikes close to home(as they are supposed to) during their ride, they at some point converse with a person(s) who somehow got them to go to the lake. "Hey, I have a paddleboat at the lake. Meet me there!" Taking them in town may have been too risky, but the lake is more secluded. Girls agree to go to the lake, but discover they aren't sure how to get there. They go to the Fareway and ask for directions, perhaps even telling the store employees they were meeting someone there to ride a paddleboat. (Weren't LE originally looking for someone who may have been paddle boating on the lake that day?) girls race to the lake thinking they are going for paddleboat rides and boom. Perp lying in wait.

That is a really good thought! I never thought about the "paddleboat" coming from the witnesses who spoke to the girls at Fareway.

 

[JaimeInLA]

The family has said that Elizabeth had been to the Meyers Lake a couple of times with two girls that lived nearby.

That isn't accurate. The family (Tammy only, not Heather and Drew), did not say she had been to the lake. Tammy said that Elizabeth has friends that live NEAR the lake, whom she had been to visit. She never said they went TO the lake. Elizabeth could have visited those friends without ever realizing the lake was there. And certainly without knowing its name. She was a very young girl.

 

[JaimeInLA]

A while back, someone posted about the Sunshine Laws in Iowa. Can someone refresh my memory on that? Will the medical examiner's results eventually be released by law like they were in Florida/Caylee Anthony? If not, can a reporter make a freedom of information act request for them?

Bumping, to see if anyone knows the answer to this.

 

[24Roses]

Authorities have said they’re close to classifying the case as a homicide but will not do so until the State Medical Examiner’s Office identifies the cause of death.

Investigators said they hoped the discovery of the girls’ bodies would provide evidence that furthered the case.

Smock, in an interview Friday, said he had no updates on the progress of the investigation. But he agreed that finding the perpetrators is critical for the town’s healing.

“I don’t think we’re going to see a full sense of closure until the person or persons responsible are brought before the courts and held responsible for their actions,” he said.

The past five months have been a struggle for Lyric’s and Elizabeth’s immediate and extended family alike, said the girls’ aunt Tammy Brousseau.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121229/NEWS/312290063/?odyssey=nav|head

If that interview was given by Smock on Friday, Dec. 28th, it sounds to me like the ME has not yet provided LE with COD & the test results that they were still doing after confirming the bodies were the girls, are not back yet. IIRC, I think the last article said those results could take at least 2 weeks. Hopefully we will hear something by the end of next week.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I posted about the Sunshine law a couple of times here in the beginning. IIRC, Iowa is a newer Sunshine state? It doesn't appear all that open with dockets etc..yet. You have to pay to view them in this county it appears. There's other information about the law online and it seems to be a slow moving process. I did ask a few of the local news stations if they had requested any document releases and one or two replied there were none to release? It is an ongoing investigation so they can withold.

In FL they released so many documents during Casey Anthony's trial on a regular basis. It's the docs not needed to prosecute but it gave the average reader a good idea as to what Casey possibly did to Caylee.

Any locals know where the Sunshine law stands now within your state? eta, and how open is it?

 

[otto]

That isn't accurate. The family (Tammy only, not Heather and Drew), did not say she had been to the lake. Tammy said that Elizabeth has friends that live NEAR the lake, whom she had been to visit. She never said they went TO the lake. Elizabeth could have visited those friends without ever realizing the lake was there. And certainly without knowing its name. She was a very young girl.

Do yo have a link where Tammy states that Elizabeth visited friends that live at the lake or on Lake Avenue?

I'm still looking for a link, but in the meantime, I did find another one. It was suggested a while back that there was no reference to the Maiden Lane area except on this website. Tammy Brousseau first mentioned the Maiden Lane area in referencing the sewer pump building on Maiden Lane.
Note: yards should be replaces with feet.


July 19, 2012

"BROUSSEAU: OK. So then we watched the investigators put the crime scene tape up. They were down there for a very long time. I would say approximately three hours, maybe more, you know, doing their investigation.

And we went back around to the southeast side of the lake, where you can actually -- there is an old, like, sewer building. There`s an old garage that sits on this chunk of land that you can actually very easily go down a few blocks and access the back of the lake area from -- from that point you can.

...

"BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

 

[otto]

More at link ...

"On Saturday afternoon, loved ones, friends and neighbors said goodbye for the final time to a girl who loved singing with her cousins, swimming with her mom and having sleepovers with her friends from school.

Dozens of people streamed in and out of the Heartland Vineyard Church in Cedar Falls, past trees bearing pink ribbons that have become commonplace following the July 13 disappearance of Lyric and her cousin Elizabeth Collins from the nearby Black Hawk County town of Evansdale. Family members requested that reporters not attend the service."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...ic-Cook-Morrissey-s-short-life?nclick_check=1

 

[borndem]

I feel so terrible for Wylma - I truly believe she will feel Lyric's loss more than anyone else:

Lyric lived with her grandmother Wylma Cook for much of her short life. Reminders of the girl are everywhere in Cook’s modest two-story home on Waterloo’s east side, from her art projects on the fridge to stuffed animals in the bedroom the two shared.

For Cook, night time is the hardest. That’s when she and Lyric would sit in bed, hold hands and talk. Lyric’s stuffed dog, Max, still rests on her side of the bed.

Cook said Lyric’s custom-made urn will bear a phrase the two used to share each night before falling asleep: “I love you, good night.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121229/NEWS/312290063/?odyssey=nav|head

Yes, Marilyn, I have thought of sweet Wylma almost every time I have thought of pretty Lyric. That bed of hers has gotten very large since little Lyric can't help fill it now.

Waterworks, you opened them, but so eloquently...

This one is tuff.

 

[Marilynilpa]

That isn't accurate. The family (Tammy only, not Heather and Drew), did not say she had been to the lake. Tammy said that Elizabeth has friends that live NEAR the lake, whom she had been to visit. She never said they went TO the lake. Elizabeth could have visited those friends without ever realizing the lake was there. And certainly without knowing its name. She was a very young girl.

I'm on a link quest, because IIRC Tammy did say Lizzie had biked to the lake with some neighbor girls. I've been looking for half an hour, no luck yet but I'll keep searching.

 

[georger]

Good question! And the location of the Fareway in relation to where the girls were last seen on video. I was wondering if they would have asked for directions before or after the video of them riding past the auction place. TIA!

Why are they at the grocery asking for direction to the Park if they've been there before?

If this is the Park where the bikes were found, and now they are asking
directions to it, then I think we can throw out the idea that they were
following the grandmother's instructions to stay close to home ...

Im beginning to question the amount of restraint Grandma's instructions
had on these girls ... and if they will go to the Park for some reason ...
will they also skip off to 7-Bridges with someone for a presumed short
visit ... ?

Obviously, their bikes atthe Park was not staged - they were in fact going
there on their own volition... with intent. Apparently not the least
worried.

This changes the whole context of the abduction ... which I guess we
will still call an 'abduction' ?

Were the hands of the girls tied as found at 7-Bridges?

Are there any real dangers at 7-Bridges? Cliff? Deep fast water? Rattlesnakes?

 

[georger]

I have never given much credence to the idea that Elizabeth was a frequnt visitor or bike rider to the lake or on the bike trail. I bellieve her family is correct when they say she did not stray far from home.

Not suggesting the witness regarding seeing her often beyond her boundaries is lying, just mistaken.

and I am almost of the opposite view at this point. (I thought posters said
they had ridden to the Park before so why are they in need of instruction
for getting there?). Whatever the true facts are, these girls wanted to go
to the Park, a place they had not been to before, and they went ... and
did they then meet someone and go to 7-Bridges! ?

 

[georger]

I, too, always doubted the lawn-watering man's story. For one, eyewitness accounts are not the most reliable. Two, he could easily have confused Lizzie with another little girl. Three, I did not get the impression from Heather that Lizzie would be permitted to travel that far-and especially on a regular basis. If Lizzie was riding her bike that far, I think she would have had to be doing it without her parents' knowledge and permission. I can see her getting away with it once or twice, but had she disobeyed her parents on a regular basis(enough to have nightly conversations with people near the lake), I think she would've gotten caught. I don't see Lizzie being that kind of child, honestly.

So, basically, if we choose to believe this rumor, the girls were on a mission. They wanted to get to that lake. But why?

The 'rumor' of them asking directions from people at the Fareway is no
'rumor' but fact. That trumps all other conjecture -

 

[georger]

I think IF the girls were headed to the skate park or the lake it was because they were lured there. The time they had to spare to meet this person would have been very short. I wonder if they knew this person had a vehicle an was assured that the bikes and girls could be returned to the Collins home in time using the vehicles.

.My thoughts return again to the incdient a short time prior when Lyric and another cousin were MIA in Waterloo.

IF the fairway rumors end up being valid (and again, that must be considered a rumor) then that would more firmly cement the notions that

I think that is exactly what happened. Another MIA. Fareway employees
being interviewed by the FBI is true.

That to my mind opens up the distinct possibility the girls then went to 7-
Bridges willingly. And 7-Bridges is where "everything" happened.

They wouldnt have known they were being abducted until they got to 7-Bridges.

And if the perp arrives at 7-Bridges with them and other people are there and no privacy, then no-big-deal; turn around and bring the girls back to town. It's been an adventure and the girls can make up any story they want.

The placement of the bodies at 7-Bridges shows they were just a short distance away from
where the old road-path in ends... they get out and walk a short distance and ... just as it
happened. The facts of what happened preserved by the positions of the bodies right at the
end of the drive trial where a vehicle had to stop. The facts of what happened are in plain sight. This perp didnt try and cover anything up -

 

[Marilynilpa]

The 'rumor' of them asking directions from people at the Fareway is no
'rumor' but fact. That trumps all other conjecture -

The Fareway story is just rumor because it cannot be confirmed via MSM. It was mentioned on a FB page, which is rumor.

If you can find a MSM link to the Fareway story to support your claim that this is a fact, please provide it. Thanks.

 

[tlcya]

I'm on a link quest, because IIRC Tammy did say Lizzie had biked to the lake with some neighbor girls. I've been looking for half an hour, no luck yet but I'll keep searching.

I would love to see that. Not that I doubt your recollection but because I have never heard that info before.

 

[chelsea6]

In August of this year I went to Evansdale and rode my bike from Collins home to the lake where the bikes were found. It took me less than 10 minutes and I'm middle aged. The bike path has trees, bushes, and houses along it's path. You also cross many intersections of residental streets. My husband followed me in our vehicle on another street and saw me many times. I only saw one person on the path, a woman walking her dog and it was the weekend.

cindersoot, you are an AWESOME Websleuth!! :woot:

A must watch: Evansdale bike trail part 2 - YouTube

Here is a great clip of the trail, and a childs view of Evansdale. The rider is a child, describing and showing us the Fareway store from the trail itself. Fareway starts at frame 1:39. (Wouldn't this clearing be the exact location where the Fareway employee would tell the girl to get onto the trail? The girls would get on and travel the opposite direction of this clip of course.)

Oh boy... at Frame 155 you have a clear view of the employees taking a smoke break! :what: Then riding on Lafayette, Frame 217 shows the Ice cream shop the child is talking about it . Frame 240 this is riding down the girls street on Brovan Blvd. with the large garage I was wondering about to the right.

I haven't watched the whole thing, no time. There is also an Evansdale bike trail part 1.. haven't seen it yet.

After watching this I definitely see how the girls would want to go on it. I still would be using the same directions, because it's what I am familiar with, and comfortable with. But after watching this, I agree Fareway employees taking a smoke break would most likely give the trail directions after all. :seeya:

 

[tlcya]

The 'rumor' of them asking directions from people at the Fareway is no
'rumor' but fact. That trumps all other conjecture -

The Fareway story is just rumor because it cannot be confirmed via MSM. It was mentioned on a FB page, which is rumor.

If you can find a MSM link to the Fareway story to support your claim that this is a fact, please provide it. Thanks.

Unfortunately, no matter how believable this info is, due WS rules we MUST not imply or suggest it is fact in our post as it has not been verified or cited by LE or msm.

Any info gleaned from social media must be considered rumor until such time as it is mentioned or confirmed by a more credible source.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I would love to see that. Not that I doubt your recollection but because I have never heard that info before.

Okay, here it is:

MISTY COOK-MORRISSEY, MOTHER OF 10-YEAR-OLD LYRIC COOK: From my understanding, they do not know that area. Maybe Elizabeth and some friends had ridden down there at one time.

BROUSSEAU: One time.

COOK-MORRISEY: But no, it's not an area that they frequented. They didn't go far from home, either of the girls. They mainly stayed around the Evansdale area that my sister lives in, so it's just not kind of like them to go that far.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/cnr.03.html

I thought I'd seen a more detailed comment from Tammy, but so far I haven't found it.