IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[SapphireSteel]

Oh I don't doubt that one bit. I'm saying that the bikes were not FOUND laying in the path as they were when Mr. G saw them.

When they were officially found them they were against the fence, unless we are to assume the fireman moved them and they were on the path...which I'm doubting.

I am going to assume that area became a "do not touch" scene immediately and the fireman didn't move them.

So someone moved them.

Which is probably why Abben hinted at a staging. Because he thinks there was one.

I just keep thinking I'm missing something...please confirm for me...

The bikes were laying down at 12.20 then

The bikes were found propped up 4pm, in exactly the same spot. The only thing that had changed was the position of the bikes, not the location of the bikes.

But the girls were seen riding their bikes at 2.30 according to Aunt Tammy.

So the story must be that the girls dumped their bikes, took off (risking grammas wrath), came back, rode around a bit more, return to the exact spot they had earlier dumped their bikes, propped them this time, and vanished again? All while the whole family and half of LE were out looking for them?

Really?

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

So we have the bikes laying on the trail at 12.20 (approx) and propped up by 4pm?

Definitely?

Adds more weight to my theory that the perps and the girls were actually in/near the wooded area when TG went past.

Bikes at brovan at approx 12:23, and at the gate at 2:00 PM.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Police have released a statement that the bikes were confirmed to be at the gate at 2:00 PM. The bikes were found by searchers at 3:40 and officially located at 3:58.

There was a jogger on the trail, but it doesn't sound like anyone else was on the trail between the time that the bikes were left there and 2:00. I doubt anyone moved the bikes ... why would they. Not even the cyclist bothered to move them bikes that he saw.

Who moved the bikes, and when, is crucially important to figuring out what time the girls vanished.

On the face of it, if the bikes were confirmed at 2pm (link pls tia) then Tammy's guy who saw them at 2.30 must be ruled out.

 

[otto]

So someone moved them.

Which is probably why Abben hinted at a staging. Because he thinks there was one.

I just keep thinking I'm missing something...please confirm for me...

The bikes were laying down at 12.20 then

The bikes were found propped up 4pm, in exactly the same spot. The only thing that had changed was the position of the bikes, not the location of the bikes.

But the girls were seen riding their bikes at 2.30 according to Aunt Tammy.

So the story must be that the girls dumped their bikes, took off (risking grammas wrath), came back, rode around a bit more, return to the exact spot they had earlier dumped their bikes, propped them this time, and vanished again? All while the whole family and half of LE were out looking for them?

Really?

:waitasec:

i don't see any reason to assume that someone moved the bikes. Maybe the girls put them there, and perhaps they were completely staged by the perp.

 

[threecrazykids]

So someone moved them.

Which is probably why Abben hinted at a staging. Because he thinks there was one.

I just keep thinking I'm missing something...please confirm for me...

The bikes were laying down at 12.20 then

The bikes were found propped up 4pm, in exactly the same spot. The only thing that had changed was the position of the bikes, not the location of the bikes.

But the girls were seen riding their bikes at 2.30 according to Aunt Tammy.

So the story must be that the girls dumped their bikes, took off (risking grammas wrath), came back, rode around a bit more, return to the exact spot they had earlier dumped their bikes, propped them this time, and vanished again? All while the whole family and half of LE were out looking for them?

Really?

:waitasec:

Yep...that's the story! Really!

 

[threecrazykids]

Who moved the bikes, and when, is crucially important to figuring out what time the girls vanished.

On the face of it, if the bikes were confirmed at 2pm (link pls tia) then Tammy's guy who saw them at 2.30 must be ruled out.

And yet, maybe the girls were there at the park the whole time...just not in view of anyone who remembers seeing them.

Just because the bikes weren't WITH the girls doesn't mean the girls weren't there IMO.

They went there for a reason and I don't think it was just to race around the lake.

 

[otto]

Who moved the bikes, and when, is crucially important to figuring out what time the girls vanished.

On the face of it, if the bikes were confirmed at 2pm (link pls tia) then Tammy's guy who saw them at 2.30 must be ruled out.

I've linked it many times over the last coupole of weeks. Have you checked anywhere for it?

 

[SapphireSteel]

i don't see any reason to assume that someone moved the bikes. Maybe the girls put them there, and perhaps they were completely staged by the perp.

completely staged would count as moving them? :waitasec:

SS tells us the bikes were laying down. LE tell us they were propped.

That means someone moved them between 12.20 - 4pm.

Right? Or not? :dunno:

 

[carbuff]

So someone moved them.

Which is probably why Abben hinted at a staging. Because he thinks there was one.

I just keep thinking I'm missing something...please confirm for me...

The bikes were laying down at 12.20 then

The bikes were found propped up 4pm, in exactly the same spot. The only thing that had changed was the position of the bikes, not the location of the bikes.

But the girls were seen riding their bikes at 2.30 according to Aunt Tammy.

So the story must be that the girls dumped their bikes, took off (risking grammas wrath), came back, rode around a bit more, return to the exact spot they had earlier dumped their bikes, propped them this time, and vanished again? All while the whole family and half of LE were out looking for them?

Really?

:waitasec:

Well, not necessarily. We don't know whether the 12:20 bikes were the same bikes.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've linked it many times over the last coupole of weeks. Have you checked anywhere for it?

If I state something, and someone questions it, I provide them with the link, no questions asked.

If I don't have/can't provide a link, I either

1. Don't make the statement until I have the link, or say "IIRC" or "MOO"

2. make the statement, promise to go find a link, and do so

3. don't make the statement in the first place

I do not tell requesters to go and find it themselves.

Isn't that part of TOS?

 

[threecrazykids]

completely staged would count as moving them? :waitasec:

SS tells us the bikes were laying down. LE tell us they were propped.

That means someone moved them between 12.20 - 4pm.

Right? Or not? :dunno:

I say right.

 

[soccer mom]

bbm
I recall that Abben said he saw one or perhaps both leaning against the fence when HE arrived. That, to me, does not mean they were first discovered leaning against the fence.

There was discussion that they were moved over against the fence after crime scene photos and other forensic evidence was gathered. It might not have even been designated a crime scene immediately, and LE moved the bikes over against the fence after they had what information they deemed necessary at the time.

I do not recall LE ever stating how the bikes were originally found by them. It would be great if someone has a link that shows LE stating how and where the bikes were first located by LE.

Point well made. I often get so frustrated with the amber alert system. The whole point of "amber alert" was to save lives & it some cases it does. However, it seems that several LE agencies wait to long to enact it. Even in this case it took LE a very long time to state that the girls were abducted. (not LE bashing) Many people could have actually touched the girls bikes leaving any evidence left behind unusable.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Well, not necessarily. We don't know whether the 12:20 bikes were the same bikes.

No we don't, do we.

But the statistical likliehood of them belonging to someone else are negligible, so that leaves someone actually placing dummy bikes to distract...which in turn means someone is not identifying the right bikes, somewhere along the line.

Which is entirely possible.

 

[carbuff]

And yet, maybe the girls were there at the park the whole time...just not in view of anyone who remembers seeing them.

Just because the bikes weren't WITH the girls doesn't mean the girls weren't there IMO.

They went there for a reason and I don't think it was just to race around the lake.

Yes, I agree with you on this, and I can think of a dozen reasons why they might have parked their bikes and gone somewhere else. Most of them are along the lines of, "I'll bet if we go over here we can catch some leeches" or "Let's play castle on the rocks."

On a hot summer day, they might even have been clear back under the trees playing.

 

[Sere-nity]

Maybe, just speculating, that 2oclock guy moved the bikes off the trail... I assume they were a hazard on the trail

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't see them as going to the Lake for adventure.

I think they went for a definite reason. They were instructed to go there.

They had been kicking around the house with gramma all morning, right? So why wait until the last minute to beg for a ride? They would have been out and about much earlier, if they were just biking for the fun of it.

:cow:

 

[carbuff]

No we don't, do we.

But the statistical likliehood of them belonging to someone else are negligible, so that leaves someone actually placing dummy bikes to distract...which in turn means someone is not identifying the right bikes, somewhere along the line.

Which is entirely possible.

So you don't think there's even a remote possibility that the bikes belong to the two fishermen Mr. G saw?

I'm not trying to pick on you, just want to be sure I understand your position.

 

[otto]

SapphireSteel, here is the link to the information about the bikes being found at 2:00 PM.

http://www.iowa.gov/odcp/docs/missingIowagirls.pdf

This has also been posted in the last week.

 

[SapphireSteel]

So you don't think there's even a remote possibility that the bikes belong to the two fishermen Mr. G saw?

I'm not trying to pick on you, just want to be sure I understand your position.

No question in my mind.

Apart from anything else, have you ever tried riding a bike while carrying a fishing pole?

:lol:

 

[otto]

completely staged would count as moving them? :waitasec:

SS tells us the bikes were laying down. LE tell us they were propped.

That means someone moved them between 12.20 - 4pm.

Right? Or not? :dunno:

The girls were on Brovan at 12:15 or 12:23. There is no confirmed sighting of the bikes prior to 2:00 PM.

Either the girls or the perp put the bikes at the gate before 2:00 PM