IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[foxbluff]

Please... w/all due respect... please look at what the poster is saying.

 

[Sere-nity]

They would be a hazard for a cyclist, but not a jogger ... and the cyclist didn't move the bikes that he saw at 12:20.

The trail is 10 feet wide.

Just speculating. Maybe he was trying to be a considerate citizen? I don't know. They may have been splayed across the path. A mountain bike is what long and a smaller bike 4. Could have been covering most of the path. I don't know, I wasn't there, but I could imagine someone thinking they were helpful.

 

[Jax49]

Yes I can picture that.

But these two were adults or one adult and one younger person, which means someone probably had access to a car...so why bike awkwardly to a lake to catch tiddlers?

Also, allegedly Elizabeth and Lyric were the only two cyclists caught on cctv that day, in all of Evansdale.

Your childhood determination (mine too, maybe I tried to bike holding a hockey stick or a tennis raquet once, it seems familiar) doesn't alter the statistical likliehood of the girls dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as two far away fishermen, as being one in a million, literally.

Add that in to chances that a grown male American adult would choose to bike anywhere voluntarily holding a fishing rod, and you've got reasonable doubt in my book.

Some things I just can't get past and the above are good examples. Alone, maybe. Together...it's just too much.

I'm think the bikes belonged to the girls, and/or the perps (staging purposes). I think they had just been laid down when TG went by, and I think they were rearranged when he left. And there they sat until someone official went and looked for them.

:cow:

BBM I remember the auction house guy saying they were the only bicyclists caught on his CCTV, but as to all the CCTV's in town??? Do you have a link please?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I know you didn't ask me, but I want to answer. :great:

In my opinion, not a chance!

1) The fisherman were grown men. Why would they ride bikes to go fishing instead of driving a car?

2) The bikes TG saw were in the EXACT SAME SPOT as the bikes the searchers found, which belonged to the girls.

3) The fisherman were on the opposite side of the lake. (Sure, they could have meandered around, but why not move their bikes with them?)

4) Is it even possible to ride a bike with a fishing pole and a tackle box?

5) The chances of two bikes that were NOT the girls' bikes being discarded in the EXACT SAME SPOT on the EXACT SAME DAY that the girls' bikes WERE discarded there, in a park that is rarely used for bike riding (per Ollipop), have to be so astronomically miniscule that I'd call it virtually impossible.

BBM

It seems like everything in this case is virtually impossible, from start to finish. :twocents:

 

[carbuff]

I know you didn't ask me, but I want to answer. :great:

In my opinion, not a chance!

1) The fisherman were grown men. Why would they ride bikes to go fishing instead of driving a car?

2) The bikes TG saw were in the EXACT SAME SPOT as the bikes the searchers found, which belonged to the girls.

3) The fisherman were on the opposite side of the lake. (Sure, they could have meandered around, but why not move their bikes with them?)

4) Is it even possible to ride a bike with a fishing pole and a tackle box?

5) The chances of two bikes that were NOT the girls' bikes being discarded in the EXACT SAME SPOT on the EXACT SAME DAY that the girls' bikes WERE discarded there, in a park that is rarely used for bike riding (per Ollipop), have to be so astronomically miniscule that I'd call it virtually impossible.

I wasn't interested in arguing the point. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding Sapphire.

 

[Tucarra]

Were both girls riding girl's bikes vs. boy's bikes. ?
Are the bikes in the video girls' or boys' bikes?

Boys versus girls bikes are essentially indistinguishable in this day and age, unless one is hot pink with candy fluff pink streamers....but structurally not that much difference...is that what you're getting at?

 

[carbuff]

I totally don't get why people are saying adults wouldn't ride a bike. Is New England the only part of the country where people still get around by means other than cranking up a car????

 

[Marilynilpa]

Yes I can picture that.

But these two were adults or one adult and one younger person, which means someone probably had access to a car...so why bike awkwardly to a lake to catch tiddlers?

Also, allegedly Elizabeth and Lyric were the only two cyclists caught on cctv that day, in all of Evansdale.

Your childhood determination (mine too, maybe I tried to bike holding a hockey stick or a tennis raquet once, it seems familiar) doesn't alter the statistical likliehood of the girls dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as two far away fishermen, as being one in a million, literally.

Add that in to chances that a grown male American adult would choose to bike anywhere voluntarily holding a fishing rod, and you've got reasonable doubt in my book.

Some things I just can't get past and the above are good examples. Alone, maybe. Together...it's just too much.

I'm think the bikes belonged to the girls, and/or the perps (staging purposes). I think they had just been laid down when TG went by, and I think they were rearranged when he left. And there they sat until someone official went and looked for them.

:cow:

BBM

Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

Okay, let's say you are right and the bikes TG saw at 12:20 belonged to Lyric and Lizzie.

What is your opinion about this statement by Abben:

"We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-missing-2-months-authorities-plead-for-help/

Do you believe LE's information is incorrect, and the girls were NOT seen after TG saw the bikes at 12:20?

Thanks.

 

[foxbluff]

There is a link to where LE says where the bikes were found, but I can't search for it now. I know we discussed this in the earlier threads.

My reason for thinking the bikes TG saw (if they belonged to the girls) could not have been in the same location as when LE found them is simple - TG saw them laying across a path, but LE found them leaning against a fence. So if the bikes TG saw actually were Lyric and Lizzie's, they were moved after he saw them. JMO

For what it's worth, of my (5) fave posters, you are one of the two that I admire the most, due to your keeping up w/who said what, etc. and your giving info in a way that doesn't offend other posters. <bravo>

BBM - IIRC, it was Abben <be still my heart> and only Abben that mentioned that when he arrived at the scene the bikes were leaning against the fence.

He didn't, IMO, state where they were when discovered, but simply stated where they were when he first saw them.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I totally don't get why people are saying adults wouldn't ride a bike. Is New England the only part of the country where people still get around by means other than cranking up a car????

Possibly. They definitely don't do it here! :what:

 

[JaimeInLA]

If the bikes were confirmed to be at the location where they were found at 4 PM as early as 12:27, why do official reports state 2:00 PM?

I think we just have 2 conflicting official reports. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's spokesperson says 3:58. The Iowa Criminal Investigation Bureau (I'm sure I got that wrong -- but the STATE organization, not the County) says 2:00.

 

[RNER]

Yes I can picture that.

But these two were adults or one adult and one younger person, which means someone probably had access to a car...so why bike awkwardly to a lake to catch tiddlers?

Also, allegedly Elizabeth and Lyric were the only two cyclists caught on cctv that day, in all of Evansdale.

Your childhood determination (mine too, maybe I tried to bike holding a hockey stick or a tennis raquet once, it seems familiar) doesn't alter the statistical likliehood of the girls dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as two far away fishermen, as being one in a million, literally.

Add that in to chances that a grown male American adult would choose to bike anywhere voluntarily holding a fishing rod, and you've got reasonable doubt in my book.
Some things I just can't get past and the above are good examples. Alone, maybe. Together...it's just too much.

I'm think the bikes belonged to the girls, and/or the perps (staging purposes). I think they had just been laid down when TG went by, and I think they were rearranged when he left. And there they sat until someone official went and looked for them.

:cow:

I respectfuly disagree...
Many "grown men" ride bikes everywhere because of suspended/ lack of a driver's license and when access on a bike path only permits walking or riding a bike to certain fishing locations, I would assume that "fishermen" would ride bikes, at least where I am from!

 

[Sere-nity]

I think we just have 2 conflicting official reports. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's spokesperson says 3:25. The Iowa Criminal Investigation Bureau (I'm sure I got that wrong -- but the STATE organization, not the County) says 2:00.

Don't yell at me but, link? Or was that in the audio link posted above?

 

[iamnotagolem]

I know you didn't ask me, but I want to answer. :great:

In my opinion, not a chance!

1) The fisherman were grown men. Why would they ride bikes to go fishing instead of driving a car?

2) The bikes TG saw were in the EXACT SAME SPOT as the bikes the searchers found, which belonged to the girls.

3) The fisherman were on the opposite side of the lake. (Sure, they could have meandered around, but why not move their bikes with them?)

4) Is it even possible to ride a bike with a fishing pole and a tackle box?

5) The chances of two bikes that were NOT the girls' bikes being discarded in the EXACT SAME SPOT on the EXACT SAME DAY that the girls' bikes WERE discarded there, in a park that is rarely used for bike riding (per Ollipop), have to be so astronomically miniscule that I'd call it virtually impossible.

1. Link please? We do not know the ages of the people fishing, TG noticed them. And really many 13-15 y/o boys are as big as grown men.

This is just a general post, but I'm surprised people make definitive statements about fishing, yet aren't fishermen themselves. I would have no qualms with walking around a lake fishing, moving around it casting as I went. I would have no qualms with riding my bike with my fishing gear. It's what kids in the Midwest do.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Don't yell at me but, link?

OMG - that was totally a typo. UGH. As if this case weren't confusing enough already. Sorry! I edited it to say 3:58. The point remains though -- 2 different LE organizations giving 2 different times.

 

[JaimeInLA]

1. Link please? We do not know the ages of the people fishing, TG noticed them. And really many 13-15 y/o boys are as big as grown men.

This is just a general post, but I'm surprised people make definitive statements about fishing, yet aren't fishermen themselves. I would have no qualms with walking around a lake fishing, moving around it casting as I went. I would have no qualms with riding my bike with my fishing gear. It's what kids in the Midwest do.

We asked him about that over the weekend. He said they were "adults" but that one was smaller than the other. I took "adults" to mean "grown men" -- not teenagers. If you look under the most recent posts by SierraShelby, you will see his answers. I'd look, but I have to leave to go pick up my daughter.

And you are correct. I'm not going to lie -- I have never fished once in my life. And I only ride a bike if I'm at the beach. So I'm probably not the best sample for the "what happens in Iowa" survey. :floorlaugh:

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM I remember the auction house guy saying they were the only bicyclists caught on his CCTV, but as to all the CCTV's in town??? Do you have a link please?

No.

Which is why I used the word "allegedly".

 

[iamnotagolem]

Otto could you be a dear and post the map of TGs bike route, that shows where the girls bikes were found? If it's handy, if not no worries, I'll look it up when I have a better device to work from.

 

[Mjskit]

Who moved the bikes, and when, is crucially important to figuring out what time the girls vanished.

On the face of it, if the bikes were confirmed at 2pm (link pls tia) then Tammy's guy who saw them at 2.30 must be ruled out.

BBM Why? Could they not have been treasure hunting in the wooded area when the jogger went by then a few minutes later got on their bikes riding around again?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Didnt we decide that was a typo?

Didn't NCMC also say Lyric was 5'11"?

I believe the DCI would make certain their info was correct before disseminating it to the public. If it had been incorrect, I feel a correction would have been issued on something this important. JMO