IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[iamnotagolem]

Page 66 & 67 of the last thread is where SS discusses the fishermen. He says two people, male, in dark clothes, on might be younger than the other.

Otto asked "adults?" and SS replied one might be younger than the other.

Sorry I can't copy and paste it all over here, I'll try to snag the laptop in a bit and try to post it all. But I couldn't find anything that indicating any specific age group.

 

[Sere-nity]

OMG - that was totally a typo. UGH. As if this case weren't confusing enough already. Sorry! I edited it to say 3:58. The point remains though -- 2 different LE organizations giving 2 different times.

Hah no problem. I was like OH NO! not another time.


Yeah I get your point though. IMO it seems like they keep throwing out times to see what sticks.

I cannot believe they have shown us no evidence.

We haven't seen the bikes
We haven't seen the shoes
We haven't seen the purse
We haven't seen the phone

Nothing. 6 months later and we are still discussing paddleboats, bike locations, fisherpeople, and timelines.

 

[Marilynilpa]

For what it's worth, of my (5) fave posters, you are one of the two that I admire the most, due to your keeping up w/who said what, etc. and your giving info in a way that doesn't offend other posters. <bravo>

BBM - IIRC, it was Abben <be still my heart> and only Abben that mentioned that when he arrived at the scene the bikes were leaning against the fence.

He didn't, IMO, state where they were when discovered, but simply stated where they were when he first saw them.

Thanks for your kind words, they mean a lot to me.

You're right about Abben, I don't believe he has ever commented on the bikes' location prior to his arrival at the scene.

 

[Squeeze]

Not really.

I expect the media were trailing LE around like a bunch of baby ducks.

This was national (international) news, reporters came from everywhere.

Exactly. There was a lot of media and several satellite trucks in the Meyers Lake parking lot for at least a week.

 

[Jax49]

No.

Which is why I used the word "allegedly".

Sorry, I should have read more carefully. I don't think we know what might have been seen on other CCTV's thru out town.


Dang, I wish LE would give us more info and clear up what they've already released and other info MSM has published, like the impossible (IMHO) timeline.

 

[Marilynilpa]

No.

Which is why I used the word "allegedly".

SapphireSteel, you are a challenging person to disagree with. Sometimes I feel we are like this illowfight2:

But I respect your opinions, even when we disagree. I love a good argument.

 

[GrainneDhu]

4) Is it even possible to ride a bike with a fishing pole and a tackle box?

SBM

I did it many a time, along with my sister and my brother. And many of our friends. Maybe people or bicycles have changed in the last 40 years to render the feat impossible but it wasn't considered anything out of the ordinary when I was younger.

On the rare occasions we caught fish big enough to keep, we managed to carry our poles, tackle boxes and the fish home by bicycle.

Of course, we were also incredible daredevils by today's standards. When I was a kid (about 5 minutes after dirt was invented) it was common to see 2 or 3 kids all on the same bike. One on the front handlebars, one in the middle standing on the pedals and one on the seat. By all rights, we should have ended up cautionary tales but somehow we always made it home more or less intact.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just speculating. Maybe he was trying to be a considerate citizen? I don't know. They may have been splayed across the path. A mountain bike is what long and a smaller bike 4. Could have been covering most of the path. I don't know, I wasn't there, but I could imagine someone thinking they were helpful.

In fact, maybe the mysterious LE cited 2:00 pm sighting was the person who moved the bikes off the trail and leaned them against the fence.

Law enforcement does not usually release witness lists in any crime.

 

[Jax49]

SapphireSteel, you are a challenging person to disagree with. Sometimes I feel we are like this illowfight2:

But I respect your opinions, even when we disagree. I love a good argument.

Well, I could have questioned who "alleged" it, but what's the point? Too early in the new year to break New Year's resolutions. LOL.

Peace all.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM I remember the auction house guy saying they were the only bicyclists caught on his CCTV, but as to all the CCTV's in town??? Do you have a link please?

Clearly Elizabeth and Lyric were not the only bicyclists in Evansdale that day because SierraShelby was bicycling as well.

Like you, what I remember was Mr Pahl of Cornbelt Auctions saying they were the only bicyclists on his CCTV. One camera catching one section of one street. He wasn't speaking for LE or for every person who has a CCTV in Evansdale.

 

[RNER]

There seems to be a lot of back and forth information on topics that have been discussed many times previously with no common agreement or conclusion. I can't help but think that almost everybody has been in this from the beginning and is feeling frustrated that the case appears to being no more solved than it was on July 13th when the girls were abducted.

It is quite obvious by the comments on this thread that many people have a theory or thought about what happened. Whether it's related to "staged bikes", "known to family", "stranger abduction", "wrestling interest", "bikes on the fence", "fishermen", "paddle boat", "Craigslist poster", etc., our posts often reflect our own beliefs, and make us challenge the theories and ideas from others.

I have a theory and a person/people of interest based on information gathered from my own sources and from many posters on this forum. Keep up the amazing sleuthing....I am sure the answers to this awful crime are among the many wonderful posts here!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I totally don't get why people are saying adults wouldn't ride a bike. Is New England the only part of the country where people still get around by means other than cranking up a car????

I see plenty of adults bicycling in both towns that I live near. My informal impression is that more adults are riding bicycles as part of their daily routine both for fitness and because gasoline has been so expensive.

 

[Mjskit]

I respectfuly disagree...
Many "grown men" ride bikes everywhere because of suspended/ lack of a driver's license and when access on a bike path only permits walking or riding a bike to certain fishing locations, I would assume that "fishermen" would ride bikes, at least where I am from!

Adding to this would be people who can not afford the price of gasoline for pleasurable activities. It was getting to the point I was considering biking to town for groceries here. People are in a crisis and will do whatever it takes to survive. Homeless persons could also be riding bikes, it was summer after all.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Well, I could have questioned who "alleged" it, but what's the point? Too early in the new year to break New Year's resolutions. LOL.

Peace all.

LOL, I was going to do that! But I didn't want SapphireSteel to think I was picking on her tonight.

 

[alliemay]

The 12:23 time at Brovan, along with the sighting of the girls between 12:30 and 1:00 pm on Gilbert was not officially released until a couple of months into the investigation. I just posted the link and quote, twice.

Thanks for posting that twice, that's why I had posted the question, "how long does it take to get from Gilbert Drive to the lake?" I don't live in the area so I was not sure, but the key words to me in that "official" statement was that Gilbert Drive is not far from the lake.

You may have to post this several more times before it sinks in. It is really hard to believe these girls would go that far when they have to back at a certain time. But I was a kid once, long time ago and I remember getting off the bus and visiting every friend in a two block stretch even though I knew I was supposed to go right home, as yes I got in trouble when I got home. These girls are just KIDS, that does not mean they are bad kids, it just mean they are kids.

So then I wondered about Gilbert Drive, if they were last seen on Gilbert then they were either taken from Gilbert/bikes staged, or they went the rest of the way to the lake and was abducted there. Everything of course is... IMO and I don't have a "link" to my brain right now because my brain is fried from trying to put it all together.

 

[Squeeze]

I found this on the msm today.

"Resident Robert Carpenter said he didn't think anything about seeing the girls because it's such a common occurrence." Mr. & Mrs. Carpenter live 1/2 mile north of the lake. They state that the girls do ride their bikes "commonly" by their home. Mr. Carpenter believes that he may have seem them between 12pm & 3pm ride past his home on the day that they went missing. He was out watering his lawn. If nothing else maybe that sheds light on the questions regarding how far the girls ride. They state that Elizabeth is very friendly & will speak to anyone she meets. Maybe the girls stopped to talk to the wrong person on the trail that day.
http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

The Carpenters live just east of the lake, on the corner of Gilbert and Lake.

 

[iamnotagolem]

There seems to be a lot of back and forth information on topics that have been discussed many times previously with no common agreement or conclusion. I can't help but think that almost everybody has been in this from the beginning and is feeling frustrated that the case appears to being no more solved than it was on July 13th when the girls were abducted.

It is quite obvious by the comments on this thread that many people have a theory or thought about what happened. Whether it's related to "staged bikes", "known to family", "stranger abduction", "wrestling interest", "bikes on the fence", "fishermen", "paddle boat", "Craigslist poster", etc., our posts often reflect our own beliefs, and make us challenge the theories and ideas from others.

I have a theory and a person/people of interest based on information gathered from my own sources and from many posters on this forum. Keep up the amazing sleuthing....I am sure the answers to this awful crime are among the many wonderful posts here!

I wish I had a solid theory that didn't leave me wondering so much. Haha

I don't think it's asking too much for every person in a 50 mile radius to give us their alibi from say 11:30-3:00 that day, right? :floorlaugh:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Police mentioned a "runner". They denied knowing anything about a cyclist. The bikes were confirmed to be at the fence at 2:00 PM.

http://www.iowa.gov/odcp/docs/missingIowagirls.pdf

For those who are interested, here is a quote from Ms. Breault regarding the runner:

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'd just like to clarify my meaning -

Yes I can picture that.

But these two were adults or one adult and one younger person, which means someone probably had access to a car...so why bike awkwardly to a lake to catch tiddlers? :

Note I said "probably". I work on statistical liklihood (amongst other things) and while you may be able to name 30 people who do exactly that, it doesn't alter the fact that it is statistically unlikely.

Also, allegedly Elizabeth and Lyric were the only two cyclists caught on cctv that day, in all of Evansdale.:

Allegedly means - there is no "proof". It is hearsay.

Your childhood determination (mine too, maybe I tried to bike holding a hockey stick or a tennis raquet once, it seems familiar) doesn't alter the statistical likliehood of the girls dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as two far away fishermen, as being one in a million, literally.
.:

Again those pesky statistics.

I know of no reason whatsoever why it can't happen, I never ever said it couldn't. I merely said it is extremely unlikely.

These isolated tiny details seem easy to dissemble and critique, individually, but as a whole they are compelling and not so easy to explain away.

Add that in to chances that a grown male American adult would choose to bike anywhere voluntarily holding a fishing rod, and you've got reasonable doubt in my book.
.:

While many grown men do not drive for one reason or another (and we all know some), statistically speaking probably only 2 - 3% of the American Male population of driving age, does not drive at all, whether they have a licence or not. No I don't have a link for that but your country is famously reliant on the car. People rarely walk when they can drive, especially in middle America where there are large distances to travel.

BUT!!! of course it is possible! I never said it wasn't! I just said all these factors combine into reasonable doubt, in my mind! No one HAS to agree!

Some things I just can't get past and the above are good examples. Alone, maybe. Together...it's just too much.
.:

This part means "I have my opinions, you are welcome to yours too". I don't have to "prove" my opinions.

:cheers:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wish I had a solid theory that didn't leave me wondering so much. Haha

I don't think it's asking too much for every person in a 50 mile radius to give us their alibi from say 11:30-3:00 that day, right? :floorlaugh:

I think that's a perfectly reasonable request!