IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[elmomom]

Otto it was information that came out on the scanner thread. In fact, I think that whoever brought it up should be reminded that what is on the scanner thread is supposed to stay on the scanner thread.
But to somewhat disagree with Marilyn, it was not just "speculation".

 

[otto]

BBM: I think you just contradicted yourself.

I don't know anything about the other people or places, but do believe it is more probable with the amount of time we know those two...or four spent together just prior to the girls going missing. If they spent more or equal time with Tammy.. than their own home, then it would be logical for a SW to be served on whatever puter they had access to there. I could see T & M hooping it up and the girls in K's bedroom posting and googling away without their mothers knowing. JMO

I personally don't think the girls were groomed. IMO, groomers would want to keep them around....not so with the perps here apparently; yet, we are still waiting for the reports to tell us how long the ME thinks they had been deceased. It could change everyone's thinking and theories.

I have not contradicted myself. I have repeatedly said the same thing: If there is no indication of online contact with a predator at home, it is extremely unlikely that there was online contact with a predator using a third party's computer.

What kind of online contact do you think occurred between the two murdered children and an online predator if there was no grooming period?

 

[otto]

There was speculation about this on the scanner thread "downstairs", but I don't believe anything was reported by MSM.

I suppose that means that there is no source for the information ... I mean, isn't there some sort of rule about what happens in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread ... or perhaps I've misunderstood.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Otto it was information that came out on the scanner thread. In fact, I think that whoever brought it up should be reminded that what is on the scanner thread is supposed to stay on the scanner thread.
But to somewhat disagree with Marilyn, it was not just "speculation".

I was listening to the scanner that day and don't recall names being used, just an address. But it's been quite a while back, so I could be wrong.

Perhaps whoever feels there is a connection between our girls and this event would be kind enough to go "downstairs" and get the link for us. IIRC, it is okay to provide a link to the scanner thread.

Otherwise, maybe we should consider this rumor until someone provides some kind of verification. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

I suppose that means that there is no source for the information ... I mean, isn't there some sort of rule about what happens in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread ... or perhaps I've misunderstood.

Yes, you're right about that. I believe we are allowed to refer to the scanner thread, and to provide a link to a particular scanner thread.

There is nothing stopping anyone from checking it out for themselves and drawing their own conclusions, but we can't carry it up here for discussion.

 

[otto]

I was listening to the scanner that day and don't recall names being used, just an address. But it's been quite a while back, so I could be wrong.

Perhaps whoever feels there is a connection between our girls and this event would be kind enough to go "downstairs" and get the link for us. IIRC, it is okay to provide a link to the scanner thread.

Otherwise, maybe we should consider this rumor until someone provides some kind of verification. JMO

Thanks. So this rumor could very well relate to one of the other children, even the one that is an adult ... meaning that it really has no connection whatsoever to this case or Lyric.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thanks. So this rumor could very well relate to one of the other children, even the one that is an adult ... meaning that it really has no connection whatsoever to this case or Lyric.

I can't reply without going into details from the scanner thread.

 

[Considering]

No, no, no. The reason I am mentioning Tammy in relation to computers is because her teenage daughter was being harassed by an online predator within weeks of the abduction. Tammy called the police and had the guy picked up! And we know Lyric was frequently with that cousin. Tammy/Misty took Lyric and that particular cousin swimming together almost daily and Lyric and that cousin went missing together 4 days before the abduction.

I am sure the police looked into that particular creeper in relation to this case. All I was saying is that I HOPE they looked on Tammy's computers because there is ACTUAL REASON to have looked there. It isn't just because Tammy was the family spokesperson.

I wonder how many strangers have looked at the various family members facebook pages and other things on the internet since the girls' disappearance? I wonder how many family members have been harassed by strangers via the internet since the the girls' disappearance? I wonder how many times each of these family members have been harassed via the internet since the girls' disappearance?

 

[hollyblue]

I have not contradicted myself. I have repeatedly said the same thing: If there is no indication of online contact with a predator at home, it is extremely unlikely that there was online contact with a predator using a third party's computer.

What kind of online contact do you think occurred between the two murdered children and an online predator if there was no grooming period?

Again disagree. Two curious little girls can get in more trouble and be agged on. I know...I was a 10 yr old girl at one time and went to sleepovers; although we had little pink telephones instead of computers. I made calls and said things I would never ever dream of doing by myself in my own house.

Maybe once to a FB friend..not actually the perp is all it would take to find out where she would be the next day. The perp could have a child who was online with Lyric and the perp saw the conversation. ??? Perp knows the family. "I'm going to my cousin Elizabeth's tomorrow in Evansdale while my Gma babysits and my Aunt Heather goes to the Dr. We always go bike riding. I won't be back until Mom gets off work at 2. She works there too." ???

My point in all this discussion is to say I believe LE should have a look at the puters in Tammy's household, imo. Maybe they have and we just don't know it.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It's my opinion that Lyric was not groomed by anyone via social media.

But in my search for something else, I found this article from the FBI about social networking sites and children which I thought was interesting:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/innocent/social-networking-sites

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

It's my opinion that Lyric was not groomed by anyone via social media.

But in my search for something else, I found this article from the FBI about social networking sites and children which I thought was interesting:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/innocent/social-networking-sites

I agree. I don't think she was groomed online either, but nowadays, anything is possible. My son attends school online and he had to watch a video about online awareness. People put way too much info on twitter, FB, FourSquare...checking in here and there. This video showed how easily a predator can find what school you go to, what activities you are involved in, etc. just by seeing a picture of you wearing a shirt with your school's name on it. Scary! Every parent should read that website, Marilyn. Good post!

 

[Squeeze]

W

How do we know that? I know they took Dillin's computer, and a computer from Wylma's house. But how do we know they took ALL the computers she may have used? The question was, did they take Tammy's, where Lyric spent a lot of time with her 2 cousins. I don't ever remember reading that they took that computer.

ETA -- In fact, I'm almost positive they DIDN'T take computers from Tammy's house, since a creeper was communicating with Tammy's daughter over Facebook in Late July and she called the police.

But if LE had access to the Zoosk account, they could have worked backwards to find the computers that had been used to access that account.

Here's a possibility. Maybe Misty had a smartphone that Lyric used to play Words with Friends on. You play a word, and the Zoosk ad pops up..... at least it does on mine. Maybe she crested an account for her mom that way.

Also, what recently was revealed about the Casey Anthony case?? They forgot to check the cookies used by another Internet browser?? And there were the incriminating cookies....

 

[JaimeInLA]

I wonder how many strangers have looked at the various family members facebook pages and other things on the internet since the girls' disappearance? I wonder how many family members have been harassed by strangers via the internet since the the girls' disappearance? I wonder how many times each of these family members have been harassed via the internet since the girls' disappearance?

I'm feeling a little harassed myself. Lol!! :floorlaugh: :banghead:

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

W

But if LE had access to the Zoosk account, they could have worked backwards to find the computers that had been used to access that account.

Here's a possibility. Maybe Misty had a smartphone that Lyric used to play Words with Friends on. You play a word, and the Zoosk ad pops up..... at least it does on mine. Maybe she crested an account for her mom that way.

Also, what recently was revealed about the Casey Anthony case?? They forgot to check the cookies used by another Internet browser?? And there were the incriminating cookies....

I don't even know what a Zoosk account is. That is how out of the loop I am. I go on FB to play games. That's about it anymore. Too much drama on there. It started to feel like high school all over again. Lol

 

[FrayedKnot]

I would encourage anyone not familiar with Joseph Duncan to read this short synopsis of the case :
It is so easy to look at the family.
That is what I did in this case. I was absolutely convinced it was the father or one of his friends, because of his background.
No one ever could have dreamed this monster exisisted!

When you read how this man operates you will see how hard a job LE has.
God forbid it's another Duncan.



On May 16, 2005, Kootenai County, Idaho authorities discovered the bodies of Brenda Groene, 40; her boyfriend, Mark McKenzie, 37; and her son, Slade Groene, 13, in their home along Lake Coeur d'Alene, outside the city of Coeur d'Alene. Two of Brenda Groene's other children, Dylan, 9, and Shasta, 8, were missing. An AMBER Alert was issued and searchers combed the area for the missing children while authorities investigated the deaths at the home as homicides. Autopsies determined the cause of death to be "blunt trauma to the head"; authorities also noted that the victims had been bound.

http://murderpedia.org/male.D/d/duncan-joseph-edward.htm

No matter how many awful cases I read about, Shasta's and Dylan's disturbs me the most. Even years later, I still get bad dreams and the willies at night. That guy is the real life Boogey Man. From Hell.

 

[JaimeInLA]

W

But if LE had access to the Zoosk account, they could have worked backwards to find the computers that had been used to access that account.

Here's a possibility. Maybe Misty had a smartphone that Lyric used to play Words with Friends on. You play a word, and the Zoosk ad pops up..... at least it does on mine. Maybe she crested an account for her mom that way.

Also, what recently was revealed about the Casey Anthony case?? They forgot to check the cookies used by another Internet browser?? And there were the incriminating cookies....

Yep - great example. And that was a big-city police department working on THE most visible murder investigation of the year. They checked Google but forgot to check Yahoo and Bing. And there it was -- evidence that could have swayed the jury to convict her.

I actually don't think the perp was someone they met online. I just want to make sure LE has checked every possible avenue. I come here to brainstorm ideas to help solve this crime, not to argue!

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I'm feeling a little harassed myself. Lol!! :floorlaugh: :banghead:

Geeeeesh, I know the feeling. I put a post up to help someone out with a theory and the next thing I know, I'm stuck having to defend something I don't even believe happened. :banghead:

 

[Squeeze]

The reality is opposite of your assumptions. In reality people create accounts all the time and sometimes never return to them. This is especially true for sites and apps that leverage Facebook's Social Plugins that allow them to create an account without filling out a new form at all.

•30% of active fans reengage with fan pages. That means 70% of fans post once to a brand page and never return.
•Only 9.6% of fans return to the same conversation on a fan page. 90.4% of active fans post once in a thread and never return to the conversation.

My son is the opposite of my daughter. She clicks on anything and everything and will sign up for stupid crap all the time. My son thinks social media is stupid and the girls on it are stupid. Two kids, same family, Dad works with Facebook for a living - totally different ways in how they use it.

All this said, I don't have any reason to believe that Lyric's social media usage is connected at all, but I couldn't let incorrect statements sit out there as if they were fact. I actually agree with your takeaway, just not how you got there.

Great information. I can relate to not going back to something ive posted on a fan page. Why?? Because I can never find the stupid post BACK!! I know you can follow posts when your on a desktop, but not on an android app. Gotta find the post again, and then scroll. And scroll. And scroll some more.

 

[FrayedKnot]

It's my opinion that Lyric was not groomed by anyone via social media.

But in my search for something else, I found this article from the FBI about social networking sites and children which I thought was interesting:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/innocent/social-networking-sites

Thanks button wasn't enough. As the parent of an eleven-year-old, I am torn between allowing her certain freedoms and protecting her from what I KNOW lurks out there.

She got a Kindle Fire for Christmas, but we disabled the WiFi so she cannot go online unless we bypass the block. She was complaining about it tonight and I looked at her and said "Really? You really want to go there? You are ELEVEN. You have a Kindle Fire. I, your mother, do not have a tablet of any kind. I, your mother, am in charge of making sure you are not harmed by people who live just to harm you. Therefore, you will be happy to have all the books and music you enjoy on a cool tablet device, with the occasionally approved internet access, and you will be joyful or I will appropriate said Kindle Fire as my own. Any questions?"

There were none. Score one for the meanest mom in the whole wide world. :great:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Am I the only person who thinks this is exactly the problem with the system?! Good God, why do we put our public safety resources through such tedious, rigorous activities that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to "prove a case". :banghead:

The family (and public) shouldn't HAVE to wait 5 years for LE to build a case the way they do. It's the way the law works, though. They have to waste their time getting every stinkin' molecule of evidence processed, explained, backed by professionals, etc. because they KNOW some damn lawyer is going to object the hell out of any possible shred of evidence they can. So frustrating.

And THEN...if one teeny bit of evidence doesn't settle juuuuuusssttt right - ACQUITTED! That is NOT how it should work. If 99.9% of the evidence proves you did it, then THAT is what should seal a deal...not spending the resources trying their damndest to make it 100% fool proof.

So upsetting.

The flip side:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Can you look someone in the eye who was falsely convicted of a crime and spent over 20 years in prison and tell him that you think the system worked just fine in his case? That it worked too hard in fact?

I look at the last 20 years of my life and think of what happened: I met my now husband who I love more now after 18 years together; I've had several dogs who were the light of my life; I had a career that filled my spirit with joy; I watched my siblings' three children grow up and earned my status as the crazy auntie; I spent my mother's last days on earth at her bedside holding her hand, including the moment she died. More things happened than I can possibly list and none of them would have happened had I been unjustly incarcerated.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that can make such a loss good again.

The Department of Justice estimates that 3-5% of the people in prison today are falsely convicted. Since the vast majority of those cases do not involve DNA evidence, those people serve sentences that they did not deserve with no relief possible. At the low end of the estimate, that is 60,000 people in jail, losing parts of their lives that can never be given back to them.