IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[Reverie]

What is the distance between Brovan & the SE tip of the lake? I don't see how it's possible the girls made it to the lake either....but the bikes did. I understand that some crimes are staged to throw off LE. I wonder why they wanted the bikes found? They could have taken them apart & gotten rid of them.

I would guess to give the perp/s more time for a getaway? Days, in fact.

You have a valid point, though. Why wouldn't they have dumped the bikes in a remote location? Well, IMO, adding the bikes to the mix would take too much time. That is why I think the girls DID ride their bikes to Meyers Lake.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I would guess to give the perp/s more time for a getaway? Days, in fact.

You have a valid point, though. Why wouldn't they have dumped the bikes in a remote location?

I believe the were placed where they were to imply that a random came in off the highway, to distract LE.

Assuming they actually were staged.

 

[SierraShelby]

Can you find a link where it is stated TG saw the bikes up further east of the drainage gate? Those pics are just representing him talking to the officers on the trail....not specifically where he swerved around the bikes. IMO Hopefully if he comes back he can finally answer this question.

they were by the gate, the gate was closed when i went by

 

[otto]

they were by the gate, the gate was closed when i went by

Regarding the photos taken of you with police officers, were those random shots or were those taken at the location where you saw the bike?

Those photos appear to be East of the gate because there is a curve in the trail.

 

[chelsea6]

so he abducted and killed two girls (at 7-Bridges 20 miles away) because:
he was fed up with traffic stops ... at the Evansdale construction !?

That IS a new definition of having a bad day! Is he having a better day today
having settled down?

lease:

Have you ever watched a tape of Ted Bundy or any other psycho in a rage? I wouldn't want to be stuck in traffic with him considering the unbearable heat, jackhammers going off, truck fumes everywhere and then these two girls have the gall to be laughing and having fun while he goes through this crap? Who do they think they are anyway? Yesit happens. Take a look at these guys in prison..they kill over somebody looking at them wrong.

 

[otto]

I would guess to give the perp/s more time for a getaway? Days, in fact.

You have a valid point, though. Why wouldn't they have dumped the bikes in a remote location? Well, IMO, adding the bikes to the mix would take too much time. That is why I think the girls DID ride their bikes to Meyers Lake.

There were three choices:

1. leaving the bikes in the exact location where the girls were abducted,
2. randomly tossing them out the window along the highway; and
3. staging the bikes at a location that would screw everyone up

Given the three possibilities, I don't see any reason to assume that the girls rode their bikes to the lake. Were they startled on the trail, grabbed half a block from home, or helplessly watching their bikes tossed out of a vehicle? Clearly the bikes were not tossed our of a vehicle ... so ... aimlessly cylcling, lured, or staged?

 

[keyleigh]

There were three choices:

1. leaving the bikes in the exact location where the girls were abducted,
2. randomly tossing them out the window along the highway; and
3. staging the bikes at a location that would screw everyone up

Given the three possibilities, I don't see any reason to assume that the girls rode their bikes to the lake. Were they startled on the trail, grabbed half a block from home, or helplessly watching their bikes tossed out of a vehicle? Clearly the bikes were not tossed our of a vehicle ... so ... aimlessly cylcling, lured, or staged?

I'd put money on 3. Leaving them near the lake means at least boats out on the water, probably divers and maybe a draining in case of drowning. Meanwhile in the opposite direction...

 

[song22]

Interesting. Is he related to Drew?? Do you know for sure that he is the poster o. Craigslist?

I do know for sure. I saw verification with my own eyes--not msm, so I don't think it counts! :banghead:

This person was taken in by Drew's family due to a very troubled home life. He remains troubled.

I understand the need for the rules to keep things squeaky clean and not degenerate into the chaos of other sites. But there are things out there that are "real" and not "rumor" in real life. Though for the purposes of this forum they are rumor.

So ignore the rumor part and look at the msm part. But don't just dismiss the poet. Some people thinks he sounds like he listens to too much indie rock. That's not it, and he's no Stephen King. It's pathology and a lot of local folks are worried.

 

[song22]

How is the bolded verified?

I don't count as a verification source but I know this is true. I understand the need for folks to dismiss that, due to the high level of integrity on this site--a good thing. But I am 100% confident that this is true and have seen it documented--just not msm.:banghead:

 

[threecrazykids]

The whole crime seems just WAY too perfect for me. The timeline doesn't add up for all the "facts" to be just that...facts. We've been mulling this for months and can't even come up with a solid, factual timeline.

For me...I'm about ready to pull the plug on sleuthing because given the info we have, I have nothing more to offer. And honestly, I don't think LE wants anymore information. They aren't asking for help, they aren't giving any additional information that would generate NEW possibilities.

I think one of 2 things:

1. They already have all the info they need, they are waiting for either a slip of the lip by someone to "seal the deal" (which I don't think will EVER come). Someone who has made it this perfect (or at least appear perfect) had planned this and is NOT going to run their mouth.

or

2. LE have no more than what we have and it will never be solved.

I'm just growing very frustrated with the whole thing. I don't want to give up, because I think these girls deserve justice, but I just don't know what are even FACTS to work from. Everything from LE with the exception of 2 times are "possible" additions to the timeline from what I've concluded.

If I use the 2 times that I believe are FACTS I've got the girls leaving at some time before the CCTV and the bikes found by LE at some time between 3:30 and 4. This is a God's plenty of time for just about ANY scenario to happen.

If I use all the times released by LE as "possible sightings" with no additional details (such as actual specific LOCATIONS) to back it up - not general areas- the timeline is entirely too short for anything I can put my finger on.

Too few FACTS for me to come up with something to sink my teeth into. And this is how I think LE wants it. They want it vague enough that for something to actually FIT you'd have to have some sort of inside knowledge (from one of the perps) to realize something in their sightings or timeline is wrong and have more than likely found the link that could lead to an arrest.

Can anyone lead me to a post where every single time in this case has been listed? Maybe I'm missing something, but I know at one point someone had attempted to list out every time we've heard mentioned (possibly Otto) and maybe looking at a list we can attempt to rule out or include the times based on facts.

 

[MNDad]

The whole crime seems just WAY too perfect for me. The timeline doesn't add up for all the "facts" to be just that...facts. We've been mulling this for months and can't even come up with a solid, factual timeline.

For me...I'm about ready to pull the plug on sleuthing because given the info we have, I have nothing more to offer. And honestly, I don't think LE wants anymore information. They aren't asking for help, they aren't giving any additional information that would generate NEW possibilities.

<snipped for space>

I am right there with you on the frustration. It caused me to pull back before and remove WS from my routine and then I got sucked back in. I too don't want to give up, but I also have nothing to add. The same conversations repeat themselves like a bad dream and as I read them, I hope they conclude differently with more information, but they never do. I was going to try and hang in there this time, but I know that I will not actually make a difference personally and nothing I do will help find the killer(s). I will keep lurking around here for a while, but may have to throw in the towel again.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

The whole crime seems just WAY too perfect for me. The timeline doesn't add up for all the "facts" to be just that...facts. We've been mulling this for months and can't even come up with a solid, factual timeline.

For me...I'm about ready to pull the plug on sleuthing because given the info we have, I have nothing more to offer. And honestly, I don't think LE wants anymore information. They aren't asking for help, they aren't giving any additional information that would generate NEW possibilities.

I think one of 2 things:

1. They already have all the info they need, they are waiting for either a slip of the lip by someone to "seal the deal" (which I don't think will EVER come). Someone who has made it this perfect (or at least appear perfect) had planned this and is NOT going to run their mouth.

or

2. LE have no more than what we have and it will never be solved.

I'm just growing very frustrated with the whole thing. I don't want to give up, because I think these girls deserve justice, but I just don't know what are even FACTS to work from. Everything from LE with the exception of 2 times are "possible" additions to the timeline from what I've concluded.

If I use the 2 times that I believe are FACTS I've got the girls leaving at some time before the CCTV and the bikes found by LE at some time between 3:30 and 4. This is a God's plenty of time for just about ANY scenario to happen.

If I use all the times released by LE as "possible sightings" with no additional details (such as actual specific LOCATIONS) to back it up - not general areas- the timeline is entirely too short for anything I can put my finger on.

Too few FACTS for me to come up with something to sink my teeth into. And this is how I think LE wants it. They want it vague enough that for something to actually FIT you'd have to have some sort of inside knowledge (from one of the perps) to realize something in their sightings or timeline is wrong and have more than likely found the link that could lead to an arrest.

Can anyone lead me to a post where every single time in this case has been listed? Maybe I'm missing something, but I know at one point someone had attempted to list out every time we've heard mentioned (possibly Otto) and maybe looking at a list we can attempt to rule out or include the times based on facts.

I totally understand your frustration about the confirmed sightings/actual sightings/timeline. We have a verified insider posting who seems pretty confident in what he saw. And LE won't confirm or deny what he saw. They wouldn't even confirm they had talked to him. When you add to that the confusion in the family statements about where they all were and when...we have a big jumbled mess of information. All we can really conclude is that the girls went to the lake(for whatever reason) or the girls were picked up closer to home and the bikes were staged.

I don't know why the girls would ride to the lake if they knew their bike ride had to be short. And I don't see why someone would risk being seen, first taking the bikes along with the girls AND then dumping bikes at a local place. The lake may not be used much, but it must be used enough because we know TG was there. Two adult males fishing were there. One young boy was fishing there. And a jogger was there to find the bikes at 2. If I am a perp, I'm not taking the bikes in the first place, let alone stopping to dump them.

 

[threecrazykids]

I totally understand your frustration about the confirmed sightings/actual sightings/timeline. We have a verified insider posting who seems pretty confident in what he saw. And LE won't confirm or deny what he saw. They wouldn't even confirm they had talked to him. When you add to that the confusion in the family statements about where they all were and when...we have a big jumbled mess of information. All we can really conclude is that the girls went to the lake(for whatever reason) or the girls were picked up closer to home and the bikes were staged.

I don't know why the girls would ride to the lake if they knew their bike ride had to be short. And I don't see why someone would risk being seen, first taking the bikes along with the girls AND then dumping bikes at a local place. The lake may not be used much, but it must be used enough because we know TG was there. Two adult males fishing were there. One young boy was fishing there. And a jogger was there to find the bikes at 2. If I am a perp, I'm not taking the bikes in the first place, let alone stopping to dump them.

Exactly...a jumbled mess of unconfirmed info is all we have.

On top of that, I prefer confirmed information from LE in ADDITION to witness testimony to solidify facts.

LE won't confirm Mr. G's sighting. LE has yet to confirm any sightings other than the jogger at 2, if memory serves me correctly. Again...WHERE did the jogger see the bikes? In the exact same location that Mr. Gamerdinger saw them?
All of the fisherpeople are unconfirmed by LE...all of them. The only person who was ON the water that LE wanted to come forward didn't (as far as we know) which was the paddleboater.

Where does this paddleboater fit into Mr. G's sighting? Before or after his sighting of the bikes?

And I'm not being argumentative but I'm not even 100% confident the girls ever made it to the lake. Again...lack of info from LE. Abben even mentioned (ph) "We have the bikes and the purse which doesn't tell me the girls were there, just that the bikes and purse were there". So that doesn't help me either.

YES OR NO, PEOPLE...it really shouldn't be that stinkin' hard if you want people to help.

Sorry...I'm trying so hard not to throw in the towel.:banghead:

 

[Fukiyama]

The current frustration brought this exchange from Seven to mind...

MILLS
Then, you tell me what you think we're doing.

SOMERSET
All we do is pick up the pieces. We take all the evidence, and all the pictures and samples. We write everything down and note what time things happened...

MILLS
Oh, that's all.

SOMERSET
We put it in a nice neat pile and file it away, on the slim chance it's ever needed in a courtroom.
(pause)
It's like collecting diamonds on a desert island. You keep them just in case you ever get rescued, but it's a pretty big ocean out there.

MILLS
Bulls---.

SOMERSET
I'm, sorry, but even the most promising clues usually lead only to other clues. I've seen so many corpses rolled away... unrevenged.

 

[dizzigirl1]

I am right there with you on the frustration. It caused me to pull back before and remove WS from my routine and then I got sucked back in. I too don't want to give up, but I also have nothing to add. The same conversations repeat themselves like a bad dream and as I read them, I hope they conclude differently with more information, but they never do. I was going to try and hang in there this time, but I know that I will not actually make a difference personally and nothing I do will help find the killer(s). I will keep lurking around here for a while, but may have to throw in the towel again.

I hope neither of you disappear! I have found your posts and questions interesting. I am also amazed at watching the forum go back & forth in ideas. I still believe that whomever it is, is familiar with the girls (one in particular) & probably wouldn't look out of place wandering around streets or the lake. People fishing wouldn't give them a second glance. Even though they might be completely stressing about "what-ifs" now. Things happen in the blink of an eye.
I believe its one person. I think we may have been getting "warm" around the sporting theory as a familiar place for this person. I don't think that the bikes were staged - i think they were left where they lay, where the girls were probably grabbed. Still not quite sure how they got there but i believe they did. May have been a dare from the day before. The person saw a good opportunity after watching for some time & went with it - fast. Possibly they have stalked their target for some time & ingratiated themselves into their lives.i guess thats where my pre-arranged sare theory comes in.

7 Bridges is a comfort zone. They are familiar with that area and where people go. Sadly, i think they took their time to do whatever it is that they wanted. They probably like control. It may not necessarily have been sexually motivated. I dont think it is drug related though. They could be someone who works seasonally. I have friends who spend part of their summer off in their industry. That would take away the worry of having to be somewhere for someone or perhaps that is part of their thrill. All i know is that when i saw photos of those darling girls i cried. To be so close yet so far from each other. I just hope this person is found.

This is my babble missive all my own opinion..

 

[soccer mom]

I believe that TG sincerely saw what he says he saw, and is being honest about it, but I wonder if the bikes he saw belonged to the people who were fishing and not to the girls at all?

I've wondered that but how strange for the girls bikes to actually show up there later. I don't understand why the two fisherman have never come forward. the girls abduction was on our local news & I don't live in the same state. there is no way they didn't know that something happened that day at the same lake they were fishing at. Maybe they didn't see anything but you would still think they would have contacted the local police dept.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I hope neither of you disappear! I have found your posts and questions interesting. I am also amazed at watching the forum go back & forth in ideas. I still believe that whomever it is, is familiar with the girls (one in particular) & probably wouldn't look out of place wandering around streets or the lake. People fishing wouldn't give them a second glance. Even though they might be completely stressing about "what-ifs" now. Things happen in the blink of an eye.
I believe its one person. I think we may have been getting "warm" around the sporting theory as a familiar place for this person. I don't think that the bikes were staged - i think they were left where they lay, where the girls were probably grabbed. Still not quite sure how they got there but i believe they did. May have been a dare from the day before. The person saw a good opportunity after watching for some time & went with it - fast. Possibly they have stalked their target for some time & ingratiated themselves into their lives.i guess thats where my pre-arranged sare theory comes in.

7 Bridges is a comfort zone. They are familiar with that area and where people go. Sadly, i think they took their time to do whatever it is that they wanted. They probably like control. It may not necessarily have been sexually motivated. I dont think it is drug related though. They could be someone who works seasonally. I have friends who spend part of their summer off in their industry. That would take away the worry of having to be somewhere for someone or perhaps that is part of their thrill. All i know is that when i saw photos of those darling girls i cried. To be so close yet so far from each other. I just hope this person is found.

This is my babble missive all my own opinion..

I agree with pretty much your entire post. I just cannot believe the perp(s) took the time/risk to stage the bikes. Much easier, quicker to grab the girls, let the bikes fall where they may and get the heck out of Dodge. I'm not saying the staging couldn't have happened, but I don't believe it did. P

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I've wondered that but how strange for the girls bikes to actually show up there later. I don't understand why the two fisherman have never come forward. the girls abduction was on our local news & I don't live in the same state. there is no way they didn't know that something happened that day at the same lake they were fishing at. Maybe they didn't see anything but you would still think they would have contacted the local police dept.

Do you think it's possible that they DID come forward? And maybe we just don't know about it? It's hard to say because LE never confirmed Tammy's guy who claimed he saw the girls riding east(or west), even though she said she gave LE the name. They never confirmed the young boy fishing either. And they never confirmed TG. They have confirmed nothing about the lake other than the bikes and purse were there and that the girls weren't in the lake. Very strange.

 

[MNDad]

I agree with pretty much your entire post. I just cannot believe the perp(s) took the time/risk to stage the bikes. Much easier, quicker to grab the girls, let the bikes fall where they may and get the heck out of Dodge. I'm not saying the staging couldn't have happened, but I don't believe it did. P

I haven't bailed yet .

I agree about the staging. I don't care if it is stranger abduction or someone they knew, I can only imagine that when you snatch a couple of kids, your heart is racing and your only thought is to get out of the area. Granted, if they know you then it isn't as urgent but the adrenaline would still be pumping if you knew what you were about to do. I assume that no matter who you are, you would not want to be seen and you would high tail it the hell out of there. Even if I am wrong, there are so many closer places to stage a couple bikes that would have the same impact of searching and draining the lake. To walk (ride) the bikes to the other side, far away from your vehicle doesn't seem like the natural thing someone would do that wants to get out of there.

I think the girls did go to the lake, were snatched right there and Lizzie dropped her purse in the process. I have to throw out some timeline things to make this work, but it makes more sense to me that times have been rounded and estimated or are just wrong then an elaborate staging does.

 

[Copper]

Elizabeth and Lyric are starting to remind me of Jodi Huisentruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Same part of the state, kinda. Disappeared under similiar circumstances, kinda.