IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[Marilynilpa]

Does anyone know how long it takes Black Hawk County to update their information online? Jail, court documents for Iowa, Waterloo Who's in Jail? sites? Thanks in advance. As you can tell, I've followed too many. Looking for cheats. ha! tia

Black Hawk County Who's In Jail is updated every hour, IIRC.

Court documents probably vary depending on how busy the court clerks are who enter the info. Once a document is filed with the court, it goes to the clerk for entry onto the court's docket. That can be done on the same day, or it can take a couple of days.

 

[kellbabs]

I wish I had total recall, because when the church was starting up, there was something that was in the local newspaper or it was on television, can't remember which. The Pastor or whoever it was they were interviewing said about the people that go there, how they will not judge you. They said something like people have made confessions to this congregation the worst you can imagine, and let me assure you they have not been turned in. I thought that was odd. they have not been turned in? Everything else sounded normal but I thought that one statement was not something you wouldn't normally hear. hmmm?

Then, when the girls were discovered murdered it was constantly stressed over and over about forgiveness for the perpetrator, and how they wish the person that did this would come in tonight and confess to the public, and turn themselves in. Again, I was thinking I can see them expecting a member of their church to do this, but a stranger?

Totally agree great post...to me this is huge! I think more info on this would be very interesting! It definitely sounds (in hindsight) like they could have been speaking to the conscience of a church member. Maybe they feel they have to portray total forgiveness to get them to come forward. But yeah... wow!!! Thank you for posting this...

 

[georger]

Some have asked where the tank is located, as well as the bathrooms at the park in relation to where the bikes were found. The tank is circled in blue, the restrooms in red and the (general) location of the bikes in pink.

Sorry I cropped out the bike trail to the west (left), but you get the general idea.

The bikes are just off (below) the Interstate, relatively speaking.

 

[jenandemmie]

Totally agree great post...to me this is huge! I think more info on this would be very interesting! It definitely sounds (in hindsight) like they could have been speaking to the conscience of a church member. Maybe they feel they have to portray total forgiveness to get them to come forward. But yeah... wow!!! Thank you for posting this...

Was a link posted for that comment by the pastor about "confessions"? I'm just curious to see a little more info on that because we all know confessions to clergy are protected as legal privilege, unless the clergyman has info that the confessioner has specific plans to commit another offense. Then he is obligated to disclose the identity of the individual to LE. I'm not jumping off into the deep end on this, I just want read the article to see it in context.

 

[Tennlyn]

Was a link posted for that comment by the pastor about "confessions"? I'm just curious to see a little more info on that because we all know confessions to clergy are protected as legal privilege, unless the clergyman has info that the confessioner has specific plans to commit another offense. Then he is obligated to disclose the identity of the individual to LE. I'm not jumping off into the deep end on this, I just want read the article to see it in context.

In that extensive KWWL interview with Heather & Drew before Lizzie's Celebration, didn't they talk about how even the perp was welcome at the service? I don't have time to relisten to it now, but does anyone else recall that? If so, I'll try to find and transcribe that portion later.

 

[cindersoot]

I really think LE has forensic evidence, but it doesn't match anyone in their system.

 

[cindersoot]

What feeds this lake? Anything? Spring. Creek? Runoff?

I'm not sure, but when they drained the lake it went in the river.

 

[alliemay]

Wish they would do a poll on here, like for instance, how many people think it was an RSO? I need to point myself in one direction for the process of weeding things out.

Since I don't live in the area and can only search by internet, trying to find articles, pertaining to this line of thinking is something I can do from afar. I could search for articles on a certain person before the girls went missing and after they went missing, any crimes, any abuse of animals, any abuse of an elderly person....just anything that would stand out as strange.

I'm not saying it was an RSO, or an SO, the above is just an example to see how many are on the same "page" with enough people thinking in the same direction maybe we can come up with an idea to try and figure out who did this.

 

[cindersoot]

This is a picture I took at the parking lot. This was last August, and as you can see, the lake is small. Look across to the other side, thats the side next to the highway.

 

[RNER]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20568876/2013/01/11/cedar-falls-man-arrested-on-sexual-abuse-charges

This guy was booked last night in BHCJ on 3 Sexual Abuse Charges...very high bond!

 

[cindersoot]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20568876/2013/01/11/cedar-falls-man-arrested-on-sexual-abuse-charges

This guy was booked last night in BHCJ on 3 Sexual Abuse Charges...very high bond!

I like the viewer comment. "Pedophiles deserve life".

 

[24Roses]

I was just reading on the KCCI website (Des Moines) news station that an employee of the state crime lab was fired because they basically messed up on the last 60 cases they worked on. Apparently fingerprints that were found, this employee said they weren't usable & in reality they were. The article did say the cases were not from Polk county & did state that fingerprints found wouldn't always make or break a case (my own words). This does not mean it relates to Elizabeth & Lyric's case, but it could.

 

[cindersoot]

I was just reading on the KCCI website (Des Moines) news station that an employee of the state crime lab was fired because they basically messed up on the last 60 cases they worked on. Apparently fingerprints that were found, this employee said they weren't usable & in reality they were. The article did say the cases were not from Polk county & did state that fingerprints found wouldn't always make or break a case (my own words). This does not mean it relates to Elizabeth & Lyric's case, but it could.

I saw that also. Scared me thinking that it would screw up this case.:what:

 

[threecrazykids]

I saw that also. Scared me thinking that it would screw up this case.:what:

Defense lawyers are going to be all over this one.:furious:

 

[cindersoot]

Defense lawyers are going to be all over this one.:furious:

I think your right.

 

[georger]

I was just reading on the KCCI website (Des Moines) news station that an employee of the state crime lab was fired because they basically messed up on the last 60 cases they worked on. Apparently fingerprints that were found, this employee said they weren't usable & in reality they were. The article did say the cases were not from Polk county & did state that fingerprints found wouldn't always make or break a case (my own words). This does not mean it relates to Elizabeth & Lyric's case, but it could.

Now maybe some of my previous comments - - - make sense.:banghead:

 

[georger]

I'm not sure, but when they drained the lake it went in the river.

Previous poster and area resident says its spring fed ...

 

[georger]

It also depends on what kind of match they're looking for -- if they have to run a full sequence for some reason, that takes a lot longer. Since it would be expected that DNA from family members would be present, they might have to do the full sequencing to distinguish among those family members. (I don't know whether that's likely but I know it was necessary in at least one local case that I followed.)

Also, there are other tests besides DNA that might be necessary, depending on what was found. They're almost certainly waiting for toxicology results from the autopsy (to see whether either girl was poisoned or drugged) -- the routine turnaround time for that is usually given as 6 to 8 weeks. They might need mass spectometry or other material identification of unidentified powders, etc. at the scene; just preparing the sample for testing can be quite time consuming. Even microscopic analysis takes a while. Isotope analysis, hair analysis, fiber analysis, and on and on, again depending on what was found.

And this isn't likely to be the only case the lab is working on. Plus lab workers get holidays, too.

I don't expect to hear anything for another month. And that doesn't mean the case is stalled.

my compliments to your knowledge. You obviously have a lab background.
Here's a site I like.

http://www.idtdna.com/site

 

[threecrazykids]

Not that anyone asked, but I wanted share my overall thoughts and assumptions of the case right now. All are MOO, and I of course reserve the right to change my mind at any given moment based on new knowledge.:floorlaugh:

As it stands right now I (sadly) think LE has no idea who killed Lyric and Elizabeth.

I don't believe there was any DNA found that LE would call "foreign" (in essence non-family or anyone that wouldn't be explained easily).
The reason I say that, is because they did quite a bit of clearing out of trees, brush, etc. and I think they were looking for anything that was left behind by sheer chance.

I will be surprised if there were sexual assaults on the girls.

The reason I say this is because they left their shoes and clothing (presumably they didn't just walk them in naked) at the scene. If there had been a sexual assault I don't believe anyone would have left their clothes (and possible DNA) with the girls if they were already a known offender.

I think the reason they used the shoes to identify the girls was because the remainder of their clothing had been sent for testing and the shoes were the simplest identifying factor without compromising what I would call "critical" evidence (such as their clothing/underwear).

I believe that if (and that is a big IF) any salvageable DNA was recovered it didn't match anyone in any current database.

The girls weren't found just "dumped" out along some gravel road. The place they were taken to and disposed of will be of prior knowledge to this killer/killers.

I don't believe the girls were kept alive for very long. I think they were killed within the first hours (possibly as long as 1 day) before they were killed and taken to the park for disposal. I think it would be pretty hard to keep and sustain 2 girls who you've kidnapped for a longer length of time. 1 girl, sure...but 2? I just personally think it's too much hassle. If they were going to keep them alive and use them for sexual or other reasons they'd still be alive as LE had no idea where they were for over 5 months.

I think LE was pretty much lying in their comments of "we are following up on lots of leads". They had no idea where these girls were. Hunters found the girls by sheer miracle only...I don't think LE was remotely close to finding where these girls were.

I also think LE needs to reconsider releasing some sort of additional information to assist with finding out who did this. That is IF they have anything to release.
The longer they wait, the less likely people are going to come forward saying they remember with 100% certainty something that happened that day. People forget the small details that they would have remembered within the first few days/weeks. It's been 6 months already since the girls were taken.

I don't think LE has someone who's already in jail on other charges who they think is responsible for this.

I think if LE had enough to charge someone they would...but I don't think they do. I think, just like with the discovery of the body...it will be sheer luck IF they find out who did this to these poor girls.

I know others will disagree and think I'm 100% wrong on all my theories. And that's ok. We all have our own theories and with what we DO know, I think all opinions are valid right now.:great:

 

[Gracelin]

I was just reading on the KCCI website (Des Moines) news station that an employee of the state crime lab was fired because they basically messed up on the last 60 cases they worked on. Apparently fingerprints that were found, this employee said they weren't usable & in reality they were. The article did say the cases were not from Polk county & did state that fingerprints found wouldn't always make or break a case (my own words). This does not mean it relates to Elizabeth & Lyric's case, but it could.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ors/-/9357080/18107780/-/vklortz/-/index.html

Here is the link: Nice find, it may have nothing to do with our girls..But wouldn't it be a kick, if just maybe it does..