IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[superbee]

Yes they do, and your post earlier really got me thinking. I am ok with not knowing everything if it will help with a conviction in the end. But now I understand the arguement for releasing more information. Even just a little bit, such as about sitings and times, etc. That could lead to people recalling more information. I think it was Otto who tried to beat this point home. My concern is thatas time goes on, people forget. Like recently I couldn't remember if i actually rode my bike past the gate on Saturday the 14th until I checked my app on nh phone. My memory was failing me.

So we know that LE has "hours" of surveillance tape, but they don't know what they're looking for. So how could we help?? If they would confirm some minor detail or two or three, maybe we could help with this puzzle.

And I, too, have not heard people talk about it much anymore. So yes, a small update might spur some talk and job some memories.


I just might post something on the BHSO facebook page......

I think community meetings with LE could be very productive. It was summertime, and I wonder how many folks were away from home, but may have had a housesitter from another locality, or perhaps parent(s) or other family members, or friends, who came to stay at that time.

At least one of these people could have been out in the yard doing whatever, watching over a pet going out to do its business in the yard, doing some weeding, maybe out for a walk. Now, these people would probably not know Elizabeth and Luric from any other young girls in town, most likely just notice 2 young girls riding by.

But these folks may be able to help with the timeline, maybe they took little poodle Flossie out every day at 12:30 to do her business while the noon sports report (which they have no interest in) is on the air. Many older folks are very observant, and very time conscious. They look at wristwatches. They have routines, even while visiting, and housesitting.

At the meetings LE could have printed handouts that could be sent snail mail or sent via computer to anyone from away who was in town at that time. Maybe someone saw the girls at a particular spot and they are positive of the time because they glanced at their watch, so not to be late for an appointment, or to see a certain soap or other tv show.

I also believe a town meeting makes everyone feel included in the search, and that any memories or suspicions are valuable, thus they will feel more inclined to share them with LE. Fear could be holding back some folks from phoning in tips. They may be apprehensive about being the only one who may be phoning in about the strange goings on at a home nearby. Nobody wants to feel in danger, so that may be holding back some tips. At the meeting LE could reinforce the idea that all tips are valuable and be kept secret. And make people feel included in helping solve this unspeakable crime.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I did this 2 weeks ago on Facebook and they never replied me

I'm glad you left a FB message, even if you did't get a reply. I hope that if enough people ask for updates about Lyric and Lizzie, the media will exert a little pressure on LE to keep everyone informed.

Maybe LE really has nothing to say, but it's obvious from posts on here that locals are getting frustrated by LE's lack of communication.

 

[cindersoot]

I'm going to email FBI and ask them what the hell is going on.

 

[threecrazykids]

I can't even imagine (thank God) being the family of these girls...but I truly believe in my heart I would be much more vocal and public than anyone in this family is being.

I just can't fathom falling into the background, staying silent and "letting LE do what they do best". Not a chance in hell.

I would be in constant contact, being the most annoying mother on the face of the planet until they damn near got a restraining order to keep me away.

I am a Christian. I go to church. However - I don't think I could leave it in God's hands as this entire family has appeared to do. HELL NO.

I'd want answers. I'd want updates. I'd make sure that LE knew that I wasn't going away until they found out who did this to my child.

I can tell you with 100% certainty I wouldn't be as quiet as this family is. I wouldn't be thankful or feel blessed that my child was with God. I would be PISSED, vengeful, and no way would I be rejoicing her return home in heaven. I am entirely too selfish to even attempt to find the good in it...even if there is nothing I could do to change it.

I would be a furious mother who would NOT stop until her killer was found, and THAT I can say with 100% certainty.

I am not even these girls parents and I want answers! :furious:

 

[otto]

Don't want to quote any particular thread, but I do think the leaders of the community 'owe' the community and do need to say something....it does not have to be wildly informative...just say something, be present, and take questions...

Leaders owe their constituents. Period.

Often, just being there to 'listen' helps. To allay fears (just knowing that someone is there and concerned or active), maybe spur some new thinking, maybe make whoever did this feel some extra 'heat'....?

I don't care what kind of situtation public, private, corporate, global...

Leaders need to be visible. Period.

Okay, so I'm gettting repetitive on the "Period."...but not even being local, the 'silence' from leadership in the community is 'deafening' and 'maddening'...

So, Chelsea, local, asked what to ask....I'd ask the dang Mayor, or Police Chief, or congressman, or senator...for an update....Period.

What about walking a mile in the investigator's shoes ... maybe that will provide a different perspective. Perhaps the professionals that are investigating this murder are doing their jobs, and part of that job includes protecting the integrity of the investigation. Perhaps it is important to not release any information at this time because releasing any information will tip their hand in favor of the person(s) responsible for the abduction and murder.

I don't understand the point of this discussion. The only outcome that seemed obvious from reading the comment that initiated this discussion is what we are reading here ... people are getting riled up about wanting police to spill valuable, investigative information. That is 100% not in the best interest of the children, or their families.

The investigators, with the aid of the FBI, know what they are doing and far be it from anyone to second guess their methods because of curiosity. They do not owe anyone an accounting of their progress. The public is well aware of what happened and should be taking precautions, as they know this could happen again. I cannot think of a single reason for police to update the public on the progress of this investigation, but I can think of reasons why investigators and FBI should continue to follow their protocols and protect the integrity of the investigation.

The absence of regular public statements about the progress of a murder investigation is the norm in most countries, including England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Western Europe and most likely the Middle East and Asia. It is only in some of the States that investigative information is released for evening entertainment, with Florida being the extreme. Given what happened with the Casey Anthony murder trial, I would expect that most people would want to avoid that form of justice from happening again, even if it meant remaining curious while respecting the professionalism of investigators and FBI.

 

[threecrazykids]

What about walking a mile in the investigator's shoes ... maybe that will provide a different perspective. Perhaps the professionals that are investigating this murder are doing their jobs, and part of that job includes protecting the integrity of the investigation. Perhaps it is important to not release any information at this time because releasing any information will tip their hand in favor of the person(s) responsible for the abduction and murder.

I don't understand the point of this discussion. The only outcome that seemed obvious from reading the comment that initiated this discussion is what we are reading here ... people are getting riled up about wanting police to spill valuable, investigative information. That is 100% not in the best interest of the children, or their families.

The investigators, with the aid of the FBI, know what they are doing and far be it from anyone to second guess their methods because of curiosity. They do not owe anyone an accounting of their progress. The public is well aware of what happened and should be taking precautions, as they know this could happen again. I cannot think of a single reason for police to update the public on the progress of this investigation, but I can think of reasons why investigators and FBI should continue to follow their protocols and protect the integrity of the investigation.

The absence of regular public statements about the progress of a murder investigation is the norm in most countries, including England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Western Europe and most likely the Middle East and Asia. It is only in some of the States that investigative information is released for evening entertainment, with Florida being the extreme. Given what happened with the Casey Anthony murder trial, I would expect that most people would want to avoid that form of justice from happening again, even if it meant remaining curious while respecting the professionalism of investigators and FBI.

I'm not second guessing their methods because of curiosity. I'm second guessing their methods because they haven't made an arrest for the abduction and murder of two innocent children.

If the way they are conducting the investigation led to an arrest and getting a violent offender off the streets I'd be applauding their work.

How long is the public suppose to be ok with investigations that go cold? Are you suggesting that we just sit back and say "well...too bad, ya can't win em' all"?

Investigators, police, lawyers etc. are all just people...like you and I. There are some who are great at what they do, and there are those that are just ok. As with any job in this world. Unfortunately when people in these jobs aren't up to par people die...and their perps continue their vengeance against society.

I really hope that their silence is with purpose...but given the circumstances and facts I've seen unfold so far, I'd have to say their silence may not be because they are hot on someone's tail.:twocents:

 

[otto]

I'm not second guessing their methods because of curiosity. I'm second guessing their methods because they haven't made an arrest for the abduction and murder of two innocent children.

If the way they are conducting the investigation led to an arrest and getting a violent offender off the streets I'd be applauding their work.

How long is the public suppose to be ok with investigations that go cold? Are you suggesting that we just sit back and say "well...too bad, ya can't win em' all"?

Investigators, police, lawyers etc. are all just people...like you and I. There are some who are great at what they do, and there are those that are just ok. As with any job in this world. Unfortunately when people in these jobs aren't up to par people die...and their perps continue their vengeance against society.

I really hope that their silence is with purpose...but given the circumstances and facts I've seen unfold so far, I'd have to say their silence may not be because they are hot on someone's tail.:twocents:

Some investigations take years to solve, some are solved over night. The fact that there has not been an arrest should not mean that trained professionals owe the public some sort of explanation regarding a murder investigation.

I'm wondering why anyone would want investigators to explain the progress of an investigation into a double murder to the public. What good can come of it? Sure, the public will once again be reminded of the fact that a murderer may be in their midst, but the public already knows that. A reminder is not going to make a difference. There are many good reasons for not releasing any information regarding the investigation.

Suggesting that investigators should regularly update the public on their investigations to prove that they are good enough to do the jobs that they are trained to do makes no sense to me. If there are doubts regarding the ability of trained professionals to do their jobs, there are better ways of identifying those problems than to have them spill crucial investigative information about the murders of two young children.

I posted a linked statement from police on the last thread where they stated that they will not release information about the investigation because much of the information is known only to the perp, and that's the way they want to keep it. That is normal, that is protocol and that is done to protect the integrity of the investigation. That protocol does not mean that investigators are incompetent, or that the investigation is not progressing.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Most cases are solved right away, or they aren't solved at all. It's extremely unusual for a case to be solved years later. It's not really surprising though; once a case hits the one-year mark (or even sooner), there are probably only a couple of LE assigned to the case, barely any money being pumped into it, no tips coming in anymore, and zero pressure from the media or the public.

 

[otto]

Most cases are solved right away, or they aren't solved at all. It's extremely unusual for a case to be solved years later. It's not really surprising though; once a case hits the one-year mark (or even sooner), there are probably only a couple of LE assigned to the case, barely any money being pumped into it, no tips coming in anymore, and zero pressure from the media or the public.

BBM

I don't agree with the statement above. A few cases are solved overnight, some take weeks to solve, others months, and some end up as cold cases. It's not uncommon for a case to be solved after a couple of years. It's not a black and white situation. If a case has not been solved at the one year anniversary, there is almost always a statement from investigators reminding people that they still need help to solve the case and that the case is progressing slowly. There is almost always a news article reminding people of the unsolved murder. That often generates new tips and in some cases, the investigation becomes hot again.

The fact that police do not meet with the media once a week to remind them that they are still doing their jobs does not mean that everyone has stopped doing their jobs.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

BBM

I don't agree with the statement above. A few cases are solved overnight, some take weeks to solve, others months, and some end up as cold cases. It's not uncommon for a case to be solved after a couple of years. It's not a black and white situation. If a case has not been solved at the one year anniversary, there is almost always a statement from investigators reminding people that they still need help to solve the case and that the case is progressing slowly. There is almost always a news article reminding people of the unsolved murder. That often generates new tips and in some cases, the investigation becomes hot again.

The fact that police do not meet with the media once a week to remind them that they are still doing their jobs does not mean that everyone has stopped doing their jobs.

How many cases can you name that took a year or more for an arrest? I don't see how it's common. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not like every week, we hear about a new cold case being solved. I don't agree with any notion that there is just as high of a chance that LE will solve the cases of Elizabeth, Lyric, Hailey, Haleigh, Lisa, Isabel, Kyron, JonBenet now, as there was when they first happened.

Unless an anniversary article causes LE to assign more officers to the case, to pump more money into the case, I don't see how it would make the case hot again. It might generate a few more tips, but once the anniversary has passed, and the case is no longer a fixture on even the local news, I doubt there are many more tips coming in.

BTW, I am not arguing that LE should be informing the media/public more. I just think that the vast majority of cold cases on WS will still be unsolved in 2023.

 

[RNER]

I can't even imagine (thank God) being the family of these girls...but I truly believe in my heart I would be much more vocal and public than anyone in this family is being.

I just can't fathom falling into the background, staying silent and "letting LE do what they do best". Not a chance in hell.

I would be in constant contact, being the most annoying mother on the face of the planet until they damn near got a restraining order to keep me away.

I am a Christian. I go to church. However - I don't think I could leave it in God's hands as this entire family has appeared to do. HELL NO.

I'd want answers. I'd want updates. I'd make sure that LE knew that I wasn't going away until they found out who did this to my child.


I can tell you with 100% certainty I wouldn't be as quiet as this family is. I wouldn't be thankful or feel blessed that my child was with God. I would be PISSED, vengeful, and no way would I be rejoicing her return home in heaven. I am entirely too selfish to even attempt to find the good in it...even if there is nothing I could do to change it.

I would be a furious mother who would NOT stop until her killer was found, and THAT I can say with 100% certainty.

I am not even these girls parents and I want answers! :furious:

:razz: :yourock: :razz: GREAT POST!!!!!

I could not agree more!!!!!!!!!

 

[foxbluff]

I, for one, would love to see Chelsea's post on last thread transferred to to current thread. It's the one abt "If we were locals, what question would we be asking other locals?"

Is anybody here willing and able to make the transfer? Ty.

Thread#27, Page 40, Message #994

 

[foxbluff]

Didn't you say you were single? Maybe it's time to visit Evansdale and join my Date-A-Cop program. The date would be more of an interrogation so for our purposes we'd like you to record the conversation. :floorlaugh:

If I were younger, and he didn't have a wife and chn, I would be flying to IA w/bells on to meet that hunky Rick Abben! (;

 

[nursebeeme]

here you go foxbluff (great idea)

Originally Posted by chelsea6
I need input from all of you!!

Ok, if you were a local like me, or maybe you are a local, but just don't happen to be me, what would you be asking other locals that could hopefully lead a path to finding out more about the case, and/or possibly finding the killer?

I'm pretty outgoing, so no question is off topic. I'll ask anybody anything pretty much.

 

[nursebeeme]

I will go first.. if I were a local I would go to that street where the girls allegedly turned their bikes around on every day and ask the locals if the girls really did ride to the end of that street often (it is very near the lake)

 

[foxbluff]

I will go first.. if I were a local I would go to that street where the girls allegedly turned their bikes around on every day and ask the locals if the girls really did ride to the end of that street often (it is very near the lake)

Good question! And along those lines, I for one, would first need to ask whether the street they are alleged to have turned around on was Gilbert or Lake.

ETA: Was there anything different abt the bikes that helped you recognize them ???


O/T to "SuperBeeMod" - Ty so much for transferring Chels' post. I find the questions other WSers would like to ask to be very interesting.

 

[chelsea6]

I just talked to "Bob" at KWWL Waterloo Newsroom:
1-800-947-7746
or 319-291-1240
Fax 319-291-1233
Email the Newsroom


I asked Bob at KWWL if they would do a story on Elizabeth and Lyric, the girls found dead from Evansdale. He told me the authorities are reluctant to release any information fearing it might jeapordize the case. I asked him, "Why can't they at least do a story On Capt. Rick Abben in the newsroom, and take questions from viewers and the community answering what he CAN release?" He told me KWWL has asked them repeatedly to do some type of a press release and they always get the same answer. They aren't going to release anything, that KWWL will be contacted when they are able to release any information. I told him it seems like the investigation is dead, then. Then he told me, "Believe me, I've talked to them and they aren't going to forget about the girls." That was the conversation. I tried to write as I was talking, but I'm no short-hand writer...lol
Oh, this seems as frustrating for them as it does us.

I'm not giving up.. the mayor is next!! :woohoo:
:cow:

 

[otto]

I just talked to "Bob" at KWWL Waterloo Newsroom:
1-800-947-7746
or 319-291-1240
Fax 319-291-1233
Email the Newsroom


I asked Bob at KWWL if they would do a story on Elizabeth and Lyric, the girls found dead from Evansdale. He told me the authorities are reluctant to release any information fearing it might jeapordize the case. I asked him, "Why can't they at least do a story On Capt. Rick Abben in the newsroom, and take questions from viewers and the community answering what he CAN release?" He told me KWWL has asked them repeatedly to do some type of a press release and they always get the same answer. They aren't going to release anything, that KWWL will be contacted when they are able to release any information. I told him it seems like the investigation is dead, then. Then he told me, "Believe me, I've talked to them and they aren't going to forget about the girls." That was the conversation. I tried to write as I was talking, but I'm no short-hand writer...lol
Oh, this seems as frustrating for them as it does us.

I'm not giving up.. the mayor is next!! :woohoo:
:cow:

I'm curious ... what is the objective? Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen. Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case?

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?

 

[chelsea6]

Good question! And along those lines, I for one, would first need to ask whether the street they are alleged to have turned around on was Gilbert or Lake.

ETA: Was there anything different abt the bikes that helped you recognize them ???


O/T to "SuperBeeMod" - Ty so much for transferring Chels' post. I find the questions other WSers would like to ask to be very interesting.

It's FREEZING here!! :coldout: I will do this when it warms up, and people are outside more. Then I can drive by, and do a quick stop with the window down to ask with my doors locked. (One of them might be the killer!!!! Yikes!! )

 

[Squeeze]

I'm curious ... what is the objective? Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen. Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case?

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?

The objective is for LE to review all of the evidence they have, which is I'm sure 1000 times more than they've released, and maybe just release SOMETHING that would not jeapordize the case, but given a little more clarity to the timeline, route they took, who the girls talked to, etc. We've heard rumors that they asked directions at Fareway, that their friends saw them at some point, etc., etc. Upthread a few posts, someone mentioned that someone may have been walking their dog, weeding their garden. Well, if those people are not as diligent as we are about every detail, they may think, oh those girls rode up River Forest Road, so that couldn't have been them that I saw ride past on Colleen and Central....." So a simple detail like confirming a siting at a certain location might spur someones memory. I cant believe that there isn't some detail that they release. There are 100,000 people in Evansdale, Waterloo, Cedar Falls that would love to help solve this case.