IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[SapphireSteel]

You know we had a case on here from Canada regarding an 8yr old girl that went missing. The mother had a drug problem and there was a lot of talk about someone taking the child for a debt or for revenge. But realistically, these drug people don't do this kind of thing. There has never been a known case that I'm aware of. If they want to collect on a debt or stop someone from testifying, they go directly after the person in question. Not their child who doesn't even live with them and who was in another town at the time of the abduction. Why would someone in the drug world think that abducting a child to collect on a debt was a good idea? It makes no sense. If this was an abduction, it was a stranger, likely a non registered sex offender. Or possibly one that lives out of the area.

That's what it turned out to be in the other case. And FWIW, he used a female to lure the girl to his car on the premise that she was going to show her a puppy. There have been numerous child abduction attempts just in Iowa alone recently. It's very possible that this was a successful attempt.

MOO

I remember that, it was absolutely horrific...little Victoria Stafford. So sad. She knew her abductor as well (druggie female acquaintance of mums if I remember rightly?), I believe these girls knew their abductor too.

 

[Jules71]

Was the media cleared out of the lake tonight? Anyone tweeting about any activity around there?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[epiphany]

I think tonight's meeting was to
a) tell the family what to expect with the new dive tomorrow
b) tell the family to shut the hell up and stop talking to reporters!

If it was anything other than this, I think the family would be shouting from rooftops in either good or bad news situation.

I think especially Aunt T. would be singing like a canary as she has been all week. I think she was specifically told to zip it. I bet police wanted to ask who the lawyer is, and how to contact him etc and to remind people its an open investigation and they might cause issues for the kids if indeed they were abducted. If I were a cop, I'd be telling T to zip it real quick!

BBM

If I were a cop, I'd be doing what NG did today---let 'em rip!

 

[GrainneDhu]

In evaluating whether a possible action is too risky for a psychopathic predator to engage in, such as driving past the police station with 2 freshly abducted girls in the vehicle, it is important to keep in mind that psychopaths do not perceive risks in the same way that normal people do.

Research shows that psychopaths have a much less pronounced reaction in anticipation of discomfort than normal people do.

For instance, in one experiment the subjects placed their hands on a metal plate. After the sound of a tone, the metal plate would heat up to levels that were highly unpleasant but not actually damaging while their brains were scanned.

The normal people in the group showed increased brain activity in parts of the brain that are involved with anticipation of fear (the amygdala, for one) at the sound of the tone before the heat was applied to their hand. Just anticipating the discomfort of the heat was enough to get a noticeable reaction from the normal people.

The psychopaths in the group showed a very muted response to the tone even though they showed the same level of response as the normal group when the heat was actually applied.

In other words, they felt the same level of pain but they did not have an emotional reaction to anticipating the pain.

In Dr Robert Hare's book, Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, he describes an experiment conducted during WWII by the military to deliberately select psychopaths as fighter pilots on the theory that their lack of fear would be a great asset to a fighter pilot.

It turned out to be a failure. They discovered that the psychopathic fighter pilots didn't really care if one or more of the other pilots was killed, even though it endangered their own lives during air combat. They would deliberately do things that carried a high risk of causing their own aircraft to crash even when they easily avoid doing so.

So when thinking about whether some risk is too risky, try to view it through the eyes of a person who could deliberately do something that would cause his own death, just for the fun of it.

Is there much that qualifies as too risky for such a person? I don't think so.

 

[LucyOso]

It just seems to me that this family has done everything right. Often people are quick to criticize and say that a family didn't do this or that.

In this case:
- When the family realized they were missing, they were quick to go look for the girls.
- They reported it to the police quickly.
- All family members have been interviewed by the police (some for long hours apparently) and have taken polygraphs.
- They have been open about their pasts with the media and do not appear to be hiding anything from the public concerning this.
- Aunt Tammy may be saying too much but at least she is keeping their names on the news. She is telling it like she sees it and telling it often.
-Family members seem to all have good alibis.

....I'm sure there are more reasons, but my brain is sleepy.

JMOO

Also, it is 2 children...so that is different. Usually if a dad were to come unglued, he would maybe hurt his child...but...there seems no reason why there are 2 missing children...

 

[LucyOso]

In evaluating whether a possible action is too risky for a psychopathic predator to engage in, such as driving past the police station with 2 freshly abducted girls in the vehicle, it is important to keep in mind that psychopaths do not perceive risks in the same way that normal people do.

Research shows that psychopaths have a much less pronounced reaction in anticipation of discomfort than normal people do.

For instance, in one experiment the subjects placed their hands on a metal plate. After the sound of a tone, the metal plate would heat up to levels that were highly unpleasant but not actually damaging while their brains were scanned.

The normal people in the group showed increased brain activity in parts of the brain that are involved with anticipation of fear (the amygdala, for one) at the sound of the tone before the heat was applied to their hand. Just anticipating the discomfort of the heat was enough to get a noticeable reaction from the normal people.

The psychopaths in the group showed a very muted response to the tone even though they showed the same level of response as the normal group when the heat was actually applied.

In other words, they felt the same level of pain but they did not have an emotional reaction to anticipating the pain.

In Dr Robert Hare's book, Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, he describes an experiment conducted during WWII by the military to deliberately select psychopaths as fighter pilots on the theory that their lack of fear would be a great asset to a fighter pilot.

It turned out to be a failure. They discovered that the psychopathic fighter pilots didn't really care if one or more of the other pilots was killed, even though it endangered their own lives during air combat. They would deliberately do things that carried a high risk of causing their own aircraft to crash even when they easily avoid doing so.

So when thinking about whether some risk is too risky, try to view it through the eyes of a person who could deliberately do something that would cause his own death, just for the fun of it.

Is there much that qualifies as too risky for such a person? I don't think so.

Wow. Facinating. Thank you!

 

[epiphany]

I'm not Angel, but... I don't see a motive for the father to have done anything to the girls. It doesn't appear that he's in a situation where paying child support would be an issue, and this isn't the sort of case where he might have become angry, struck/killed the children then covered it up.

On the other hand, I'm not ruling out the possibility it might have been an unsavory acquaintance - who might have had any of several motives.

BBM

Methamphetamine criminal history with Both parents. No need for Mom not to continue to "cooperate" in the future with LE, polys, interviews, media, etc.

She was supposedly divorcing him; supposedly, no relationship with him. Time to cut bait and think of daughter and niece, and herself. Not opposed to an attorney here---one of her own!

 

[epiphany]

Damn, can't imagine many females who have sister/relative who would be defending the ex or soon-to-be-ex, when 2 female children of one's sisters have gone missing (2 nieces). Dad (Dan) is very lucky.

I cannot relate...particularly with both histories here---but I'm open to an explanation.

 

[loreet]

This case reminds me of the Nevaeh Buchanen murder. Less than strict supervision, scooter/bicycles found, proximity to water. I know these may be common factors in abductions, but I can't stop thinking about the two cases next to each other today. The younger girl, Elizabeth, even resembles Nevaeh a bit.

 

[hollyblue]

In evaluating whether a possible action is too risky for a psychopathic predator to engage in, such as driving past the police station with 2 freshly abducted girls in the vehicle, it is important to keep in mind that psychopaths do not perceive risks in the same way that normal people do.

RSBM

Agree totally, but the perp(s) could have been someone the girls felt comfortable with and just went along with them. No reason to not feel secure to drive by the police station.
~~~~~~
Just to add....meth produces paranoia big time. DM may have felt just being asked so many times and extensively by LE about his whereabouts, connections, etc. may have been construed as "they accused me of killing". It would be a stressor on anyone, but anyone with a meth addiction....I would suspect it would be "crazy making". Keep in mind they confiscated his cell...and it prolly has his "contacts" for his supply now, and threatening his supply. Not a good thought for an addict. I'd still like to know if he completed his poly.

I don't think DM had anything directly to do with the girls missing, but it could be someone in his or MCM's circle of "friends"---past or present.

The court appearances the same week of his accomplices raises a red flag for me, but it may be just a coinkydink. We'll see.

In the Hailey Dunn case, there were drugs, dysfunction, and chaos in the family; many of the people in the circle of acquaintances included pedos. I can't help but wonder if the girls were taken for child *advertiser censored* or trafficking, and is why I feel they are alive and cabins or lake houses should be checked.

JMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

They were advised by an attorney on Wednesday to stop talking with the press, discontinue television interviews and to stop taking polygraph tests, Brousseau said Thursday, though she said she's not aware that either had failed a test.

Misty Morrissey, 34, pleaded guilty in 2003 in federal court to conspiracy to manufacture and distribute methamphetamine, court documents show, and also has theft and alcohol violations in state court. Last September, she also had her probation revoked for violating terms of her probation, including use of illegal drugs, excessive use of alcohol and failure to comply with drug tests - and is now on supervised release.

Court records show that Elizabeth's father, 40-year-old Drew Collins, has been convicted of fifth-degree theft.
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/19066697/family-of-missing-iowa-cousins-consults-attorney

Good find Pensfan. So sad for the child.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Courier Photo Staff
‏@CourierPhoto 5m Heather Collins and Drew Collins comfort one another during a prayer vigil for daughter Elizabeth #evansdalesearch pic.twitter.com/hKYl8J0T

https://twitter.com/CourierPhoto/status/226168447996944386/photo/1

Precious and heartbreaking!

 

[butterfly1978]

by now we should at least have some sort of direction on where this is leading but nothing. I wonder how they have determined that this is not a RSO, that is kind of the only thing le has said this definately isn't

 

[~n/t~]

I think it's odd that Tammy is defending Dan so hard when he's been arrested for DV against her sister.

If he'd hit my sister, I'd be all like, "yeah, he's a crap person." ALLL over national TV.

How is that helpful in finding the girls? It's out there. The public knows their criminal history. What would bad mouthing Dan achieve? Her focus is to find the girls. The family has said they're not in the lake but yet LE continues to put resources there (right or wrong IDK).

I understand their frustration if they feel the resources should be put elsewhere.

This is not the first family that has been at odds with LE, imo. There have been many. Even familieis that have no criminal background.

I realize the protocol is to rule out family members first but what happens when they don't have enough to do so? Do they continue that same path and the case goes cold (like so many others) or do they start looking outwards at other possibilities?

I can't believe they cleared 241 RSO in the area almost immediately but yet not the family. It doesn't make sense to me. God forbid anyone has a criminal record and their child goes missing.......it would be a huge hurdle to overcome being a potential suspect in their disappearance.
:moo:

 

[~n/t~]

You know we had a case on here from Canada regarding an 8yr old girl that went missing. The mother had a drug problem and there was a lot of talk about someone taking the child for a debt or for revenge. But realistically, these drug people don't do this kind of thing. There has never been a known case that I'm aware of. If they want to collect on a debt or stop someone from testifying, they go directly after the person in question. Not their child who doesn't even live with them and who was in another town at the time of the abduction. Why would someone in the drug world think that abducting a child to collect on a debt was a good idea? It makes no sense. If this was an abduction, it was a stranger, likely a non registered sex offender. Or possibly one that lives out of the area.

That's what it turned out to be in the other case. And FWIW, he used a female to lure the girl to his car on the premise that she was going to show her a puppy. There have been numerous child abduction attempts just in Iowa alone recently. It's very possible that this was a successful attempt.

MOO

Yup and just wanted to add that Tara (mom) was treated as a suspect in Victoria's case until someone recognized the female perp from the surveillance video and even then, mom was asked to go to the police station to do a reenactment. They asked her to walk to see if she had the same walk as Victoria's killer. She went through hell. Including RCMP setting her up at the hotel pretending to be someone who had information about her daughter. Such a sad case.

Thankfully they had that school video. What would happen if they did not? I think Tara would still be considered a suspect and Tori never found.

 

[~n/t~]

Later in the evening Thursday, family members filed in and out of Poyner Elementary School for over 90 minutes as they met with federal and state law enforcement.

At one point, an officer tried to coax Brousseau back into the school. She drove off.

About an hour later Morrissey and Cook-Morrissey marched out of the school. Morrissey said he had no comment. Misty said she had no update on the case.

“They have no information. They have no idea about anything,” she told The Des Moines Register.

Dan Morrissey has denied having anything to do with the disappearance of the girls, despite accusations from law enforcement this week that he is involved, family members have said. He stormed out of an interview with authorities Tuesday, family said.

FBI agents Wednesday night again interrogated Dan Morrissey about his involvement in the girls’ disappearance, Brousseau said. Agents started beating at the door of a hotel room the family had checked into in an attempt to get some rest, she said.

“At this point, because they’re being harassed so badly, they’ve been advised by an attorney to stop doing any polygraph tests, to not talk to the media anymore... they’ve been advised to not talk to the police,” Brousseau said.

“They have accused (Dan Morrissey). They said they have evidence. Well we all know if that was the truth they’d already have Dan locked up.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...oninitialize/?odyssey=nav|head&nclick_check=1

 

[nskapbt]

Ok...here's my two cents (for what it is worth).

I think that there is a strong possibility the police and FBI might be leaning on Dan because of his drug involvement, but it's a smoke screen and not something they are actually doing because they think he is a suspect. I think this from what someone listed before:


In this case:
- When the family realized they were missing, they were quick to go look for the girls.
- They reported it to the police quickly.
- All family members have been interviewed by the police (some for long hours apparently) and have taken polygraphs.
- They have been open about their pasts with the media and do not appear to be hiding anything from the public concerning this.
- Aunt Tammy may be saying too much but at least she is keeping their names on the news. She is telling it like she sees it and telling it often.
-Family members seem to all have good alibis.

Who's to say that Dan didn't agree to tell the press he was being leaned on, in order to possibly lull the actual perp into a false sense of security, to make them think they are possibly in the clear...thus hopefully making a mistake.

Let's face there are very little leads, if any. The "facts" are barely solid, the timeline keeps changing, it's hard to establish what is what. Maybe the police asked Dan to do this, and he agreed because he wants to do ANYTHING to find his daughter, even making himself look bad. I mean what parent wouldn't?

I just do not see Dan having killed both girls or being involved (unless the unlikely (in MOO) event that someone related to his drug past did this, but I really doubt it since it's not a very common crime to take place (where drug involved people abduct kids as pay back), unless it's high level organized crime. Not backyard meth cookers/users. They typically go for the person they want revenge on, not their kids, let alone their kid and their cousin).

That being said, I suppose you never know what goes on behind closed doors. Did someone in the family hurt these girls, even one of them? Sexual abuse them? And then kill them both because they got spooked when one threatened to talk?

In my mind, I really think this was a well thought out abduction, prepared ahead of time (gathering the necessary items, a vehicle to conceal the girls and their bikes, scouting the area, and likely stalking the girls....but there is a good chance they were picked at random), I think the perp has likely done this before (no clues, no trace left behind, very few witnesses. Which could mean it was someone they knew, but it doesn't have to be either if planned out well enough).

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Ayrshirelass]

Jumping off Haleyscomet's post stating it was a gloomy day and not many people were out..

If the girls had decided to get in the lake with the idea of reaching the island to explore, given that there may not have been anyone else on their side of the lake, would it of been possible for them to be unseen/obscured from view by the island by people on the busier playpark side of the lake?

IMO I don't think they will be found in the lake but if they are this is the only scenario I can see in my mind being possible as an explanation as to why they haven't been found already ie being in the deeper areas of the lake.

I hope that made sense, I usually lurk and read.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Jumping off Haleyscomet's post stating it was a gloomy day and not many people were out..

If the girls had decided to get in the lake with the idea of reaching the island to explore, given that there may not have been anyone else on their side of the lake, would it of been possible for them to be unseen/obscured from view by the island by people on the busier playpark side of the lake?

IMO I don't think they will be found in the lake but if they are this is the only scenario I can see in my mind being possible as an explanation as to why they haven't been found already ie being in the deeper areas of the lake.

I hope that made sense, I usually lurk and read.

I have wondered about the island, too. It looks like the kind of place kids would like to explore. Some posters have suggested that perhaps Lyric wanted to run away - what better place to hide out than on the island?

I believe the girls drowned in the lake, possibly as they tried to get to the island.

If the search of the lake turns up nothing, then I am completely at a loss to explain what happened to these two young girls.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

Dan and Misty Morrissey waves off the media as they walk out of the command center Thursday, July 19, 2012, in Evansdale, Iowa.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/photos-search-in-evansdale-for-two-missing-girls/collection_12862912-cdd5-11e1-a9b3-0019bb2963f4.html?photo=23