IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

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Yep, I agree totally. I think I was typing my way-too-long story when you posted that. :)

Posts like your alleged 'way-too-long' story make me feel comforted that others are sitting there thinking these things out with me. The wicked silence that comes with the absences of missing children, of Lyric and Elizabeth, is too much. For so many reasons, we need to keep on talking. So, thank you.
 
ugh, had to leave for awhile, dog wanted food and to go out, silly dog.
I have a picture to put up with some details on it, hope I can figure out how to post it, here goes.:please:
 

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I completely agree with you about that. It would make sense to wait until they were near the very easternmost part of the fence and take them thru the woods. It would be awkward if they did come across someone else on the path while they were walking out of there with the girls and leaving the bikes behind.

If the girls rode their bikes there, I almost feel it is more likely they opened the gate and went to the edge of the water - and either got on a paddle boat or made their way along the lake side of the fence to the shore at the wooded area.


BBM...not impossible, but walking along that fence on the lake side would be treacherous and would have to be single file. The paddleboat is a possibility, but it seems to me that LE referenced that boat more as someone who may have seen something. I can't believe that if they thought the girls got on a paddleboat that they would just come out and ask anyone who was on a paddleboat that day to step forward. Also, the jetty is not a good boat ramp. Maybe they talked to someone in a paddleboat, who said, "walk around that fence and over to that clearing, I'll meet you there with my boat and give you a ride." Then they met up in the woods, out of sight, near a waiting vehicle. Or they were out on the jetty and someone was in the woods, with a puppy, and said, "walk back up around this fence and back here and pet my puppy."
 
I think it could have happened very simply. The girls at around 12:15:
"Let's ride to the lake and back fast before we have to go home!"
They are riding fast in the video. They got to the lake and were going to ride around it and out fast.
At the point where the bikes were found, someone got them to drop their bikes and come with him, either by calling urgently to them "Come and help me find my dog, kitty, baby, whatever" or threatening with a weapon. They dropped their bikes and went into the woods with him and he quickly subdued them, either with a knife to the throat of one, or hit them, knocked them out, whatever it was, it was quick and possibly violent. TG rides by, they are back in the undergrowth being kept quiet. Perp then takes them to a waiting vehicle and is gone. All in a minute or two.

The noise from the adjacent highway has been mentioned here several times, it would mask any noise made by movement in the undergrowth and also any outcries from the girls.
It happens, so fast no one notices. It even happens in places not hidden nearly as well as this pathway is at that point.

I think this person was there and saw them coming from across the lake. That gave him just enough time to get into place if he needed to move a little or get a knife out, whatever.

I do not believe it could have been planned as no one knew they would be there.

I believe this was a crime of opportunity. He had the opportunity and he took it. It happens.

...the only thing that I can't fit into this scenario is the purse being on the other side of the fence, set down neatly as if dropped over the fence and not thrown.

Where is the closest place that a vehicle could park to the spot where the bikes were found?
I've looked at the maps and can't tell. TIA MOO JMO

Good post.

BBM: I would like to know the answer to this question too.
 
BBM -

snip -

4 p.m. - The girls' bikes are located along the bike trail on the southeast corner of Meyers Lake by an Evansdale firefighter. Elizabeth's purse, which contained a cell phone, was found nearby.

snip -

The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html




urse was 10 feet to the east of the bikes and two feet from the fence.

Thank you for that. Unsure where the bikes were exactly, but with that fence and those woods, some spots would mean the purse would be clearly visible from the trail or well-obscured behind some weeds.
 
If the girls did ride their bikes there on their own - I think they entered thru that gate and put the purse down to get in a paddle boat.

"The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said."
 
I have a strong feeling that when LE saw Aunt T on television tonight they wished she would :silenced: . I think Aunt T has good intentions, but I think she may have said things that LE did not want known and she may be compromising their investigation.
 
I've been hoping this is just some crazy scheme cooked up by the family, & the girls are hidden somewhere safely...but after hearing this new information, I have a sick feeling that they were abducted by someone who either lives close to the lake or spends a lot of time there and had seen the girls there before. :frown: MOO

Can someone explain to me what the new information is? Thank you!!!!!!
 
If the girls rode their bikes there, I almost feel it is more likely they opened the gate and went to the edge of the water - and either got on a paddle boat or made their way along the lake side of the fence to the shore at the wooded area.

I can't make anything work in my mind without a paddleboat. And, I am really, really trying.
 
Can someone explain to me what the new information is? Thank you!!!!!!

I think they are referring to the interview on Judge jeanine tonight, in which Aunt Tammy kind of tried to 'clarify' that the girls may have been to that lake before with the little neighbor girls across the street.

I am rewatching the show right now and am going to try and get the exact wording down this time.
 
This case reminds me so much of Victoria Stafford's case, omg.

I can only pray it doesn't end the same way. :(

I *hope* the rampant speculation about the girls being taken for a drug debt is actually true, because, that gives me a glimmer of hope that they are still alive. :(
 
I don't buy the paddleboat abduction vehicle theory too much..too open...too slow..too risky...too cumbersome. IMO I think the paddleboat info they want is to establish that a certain person they are interested in was in the area and may have been seen at some point in or near a paddleboat for some reason, but not to use it to abduct them. MOO
 
Release some more information, LE, come on.

The public REALLY wants to help find Elizabeth and Lyric.

They need to come home now.
 
"Maiden" Lane? Wow. I assume it was vigorously checked out...I'm assuming only locals know about it? MOO

I'm almost as local as you can get (I can see the lake from my dining room table) and i didn't know about it. I went over to check out that pump/lift house, saw recent tire tracks leading into the undergrowth, but there was LE and locals all getting sketched out by my presence, so I left. I went back later, with my camera, and walked down those tracks, which turned out to be the remnants of an old "road" back there. It is now just a two-track path, with most of the gravel covered and grown over. Where it begins, at the edge of the woods in the driveway of the pump/lift house, it is essentially invisible. The undergrowth at the edge is much thicker, and it was obvious to me a vehicle had been back there very recently. I photographed it, walked back in there, got pics of stuff I saw, the view of the lake, the jetty, the trail, etc, from in there (but of course I cannot locate in which thread I posted them all). I called it in to the the tipline, etc. The people across the street obviously knew about it, as did, apparently, many other people, judging by the trash and whatnot back in there. FTR, it sits about 10-15 feet lower in elevation than Arbutus, down at the lake level, and is not big enough to turn a vehicle around in. So if you backed in there, as soon as your vehicle crossed the threshold, you'd be out of sight from Arbutus.
 
If the girls did ride their bikes there on their own - I think they entered thru that gate and put the purse down to get in a paddle boat.

"The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said."

I guess they could have been forced to stop and get off their bikes, then the perp could have grabbed the purse and tossed it over the fence as he's walking the girls down the trail. Still, the probability that someone would cycle down the path seems pretty high - since someone was riding in that exact location at that exact time. We also have the 8 minute timeline that the girls had to ride like the wind to get to that location, be forced off their bikes, walk the path towards the end of one of the fences and vanish into the treed area. That timeline is awfully tight.
 
Sometimes I almost feel like I'm subconsciously trying to make each of my ideas more far-fetched than the last one, and this is one of those times. In spite of that, here goes.

What are the chances that someone stole/borrowed the paddleboat and left it sitting in the general area the bikes were found (where the dogs followed the scent to the water). If the girls had found the boat, dropped their bikes and were trying to take it for a ride, would they have been obvious to TG when he rode by?

It just seems like they could have gotten off the boat and back onto their bikes to go home, but maybe saw something they shouldn't have . If whoever they saw stopped them and told them to get off their bikes, they could have leaned them against the fence then. Sorry, I haven't figured out many details, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble if they would have been right in his line of sight when he came by, or if there are other glaring holes in it. I'm sure someone will fill me in on wherever I'm way off base.
 
Good find. I don't remember seeing this info before.

The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said.

It's chilling. I can practically see them sitting there waiting to meet a "friend", watching someone fish, or sharing a snack with someone. I just have a picture of them sitting there waiting for something. I wish I could find more info. about those dang dogs.
 
<snipped for space> TG claims he swerved around them laying across the trail, the FBI spokeswoman confirmed that a witness had spotted them where they were found (I speculate that the FBI witness and TG are one and the same), and the Sheriff spokesman said that "when he arrived," the bikes were leaning against the fence.

Hmmm... were they "laying across the trail" for sure according to what little we know? I thought "laying across the trail" and if that's inaccurate I know I've repeated it. But the thought just came to me, were they maybe leaned up against the fence BUT the trail was narrow enough he still had to swerve to miss them?
 
I'm almost as local as you can get (I can see the lake from my dining room table) and i didn't know about it. I went over to check out that pump/lift house, saw recent tire tracks leading into the undergrowth, but there was LE and locals all getting sketched out by my presence, so I left. I went back later, with my camera, and walked down those tracks, which turned out to be the remnants of an old "road" back there. It is now just a two-track path, with most of the gravel covered and grown over. Where it begins, at the edge of the woods in the driveway of the pump/lift house, it is essentially invisible. The undergrowth at the edge is much thicker, and it was obvious to me a vehicle had been back there very recently. I photographed it, walked back in there, got pics of stuff I saw, the view of the lake, the jetty, the trail, etc, from in there (but of course I cannot locate in which thread I posted them all). I called it in to the the tipline, etc. The people across the street obviously knew about it, as did, apparently, many other people, judging by the trash and whatnot back in there. FTR, it sits about 10-15 feet lower in elevation than Arbutus, down at the lake level, and is not big enough to turn a vehicle around in. So if you backed in there, as soon as your vehicle crossed the threshold, you'd be out of sight from Arbutus.

Do you think LE searched it thoroughly? Could a perp lead or drag kids through there or leave them there to get to the road? Seems pretty creepy...like a secret place or something...secret short cut trail..hinky
 
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