IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

[concentric]

In the doe sketch, the man's eyes turn up at the corners. Johnny's eyes have a slight downward slant.

The upward slant, I suppose could be caused by body fluid swelling after death. Also, have you ever noticed that if you have ever cried for a long period of time, the tissue surrounding your eyes swells and takes on a more upturned quality.

Another thing about the nose being wider. Maybe widening from beatings, tissue swelling, etc.

The hair is wavy in the doe sketch, not straight.

 

[concentric]

I've posted this before on here. Someone please go to the Gosch site and scroll down to the Dec. 2, 2006 picture postings. http://www.johnnygosch.com/. Just keep scrolling and scrolling.

I personally don't see why they think the 2nd photo is of an unidentified boy if the others look like Johnny.

 

[Mr. E]

I was on another site reading posts from a person who spent most of her childhood as a part of a child-*advertiser censored* ring, and the abuse and control was very deep. She had to basically escape as an adult, and she stills lives in fear. This was apparently a small-ish ring, but it involved people of the community who would normally be trusted and who would be in positions of power.

This is one of the reasons I tend to put my belief in Noreen. I'm not 100% convinced the photos are Johnny, but they sure look like him to me.

I also wonder why so many people are willing to believe that investigator in Florida who discounted the first picture that came out, the one with the three boys tied up. He had zero proof. He'd "lost" his information and couldn't remember the boys' names. Meanwhile, there are other pictures of other boys who appear to be in the same room/van (matching backgrounds). In fact, a large amount of the pictures that have been released show boys who appear to be in the same area -- same furniture, background "stuff," sheets, etc. I saw one picture of one boy with a red printed bandana as a gag; the same (or similar) bandana was used with another boy in another pic. None of this is proof, but it definitely makes me more willing to listen without immediately discounting.

I'd like to know more about the unidentified victim in Colorado. Colorado is supposed to be where Johnny was taken for awhile after his abduction (after he was "broken in" in Council Bluffs, IA). Is Noreen aware of this unidentified man? Has it been submitted so that it can be compared to Johnny?

 

[starburst]

Yes, interesting reply. As a mom with sons, I try to imagine the pain of seeing those photos, and the imagination that must run wild, and the constant, life long pain of knowing your child suffered so much...I wish her peace in some manner.

 

[starburst]

I sent a remark to the sight, Justice for Johhny, and did get a reply that they would pass it along to her. But, you never know how far things go. Divine intervention, I do believe.

 

[mysteriew]

I grew up hearing from my mom anytime I wanted to go somewhere alone... "Remember Johnny Gosch"??

I believe this woman loves her son very much... I do think those photos are probably him....
I do not believe he is still with us

He's a middle aged man now if he were alive... nothing to fear by coming forward.

Yes there might be a reason for not coming forward, and it won't be a popular idea.

If he grew up "in the trade" so to speak, and he was under control of the perps, then he grew up having to follow their orders. When he got older, how long would it be before they had him doing their errands and perhaps other things to help? After all that time, how would he act/feel toward other people? Could he have started voluntarily participating in some criminal activities and be afraid to come forward now?

 

[starburst]

Shame is a powerful emotion, and one must do what they must to survive, unfortunately.

 

[gonebutnotforgotten]

Wow, I've just spent the past 3 hours reading this thread, and only part 4. I need to comment on the Nancy Grace show that aired. I thought it was outrageous the way they acted about Johnny's disappearance. I think Pat Brown was the most out of line! The way she said Johnny was most likely dead. I pursued it and joined Pat's fb page. I encourage all of you to do the same and read what this lady is saying! She is denying that sex rings exist in the United States! She is arguing that children aren't kidnapped for sex rings, that sex rings have enough runaways that they don't need to kidnap children for this reason.
Please come tell this lady how outlandish she is being! She is also saying that LE did all they could!
I am appalled at the Nancy Grace show and I am not even sure I can continue watching it if Pat Brown is a guest.

 

[concentric]

I have been praying that we will learn something from the international internet child *advertiser censored* busts. Please see the Crimes-Spotlight on Children section here at Websleuths.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-cnn-sex-offenders-arrested,0,7488821.story

 

[Leprikawn]

After reading stories about ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and The Candy man of Houston........is Noreen's story really all that far fetched?
I mean no one believed the two boys in Houston who said that over 30 bodies were buried in a boat house.

Sadly fiction will never be able to compete with reality.

 

[Jbrown324320]

This blog (found by keephopealive) backs up Noreen's claim of a child sex ring. The author believes his father kidnapped Johnny G, Jacob W and another boy who went missing from the same lake his MN family cabin was on.
http://www.davidshurter.com/

 

[Cappuccino]

Hello all.

I have a question about this case. I'm almost embarrassed to ask it because it seems so trivial compared to government conspiracies, right wing militias and Area 51. However, I've read through all the Johnny Gosch threads and can't see it addressed, so here goes.

Johnny's dog was with him when he was kidnapped. Did anybody report hearing the dog bark? It just seems odd to me that if Johnny was bundled into a car by a strange man/men, that his dog wouldn't set up a volley of barking, or even attack the person.

 

[rosario]

cappuccino, i just watched the lifetime show vanished and they profiled johhny gosch"s story , they never mentioned a dog at all????Is that a fact his dog was with him? just curious

 

[marie-chantal]

cappuccino, i just watched the lifetime show vanished and they profiled johhny gosch"s story , they never mentioned a dog at all????Is that a fact his dog was with him? just curious

I'm not Cappuccino, but I think that I know the answer to your question. Yes, in all the reports I've seen, the dog was with him. I have read in a few places (sorry-I don't have the links off hand but if you go back through all these threads devoted to this case, you'll find it) that the dog either returned home on her own, or was found later that day. Either way, the dog was apparently unharmed. I've never read anything that mentions the dog barking or the dog's behavior upon returning home. The dog's name was either Gretchen or Heidi, I think.

 

[SunnieRN]

It has been awhile since I posted to this thread, I believe it was back in No. 2 edition of Johnny Gosch thread.

I have been a supporter of Noreens theory all along and have checked back on her site for updates off and on over the years. Having lived close to where this happened and visiting their often as a child the case just stuck in my mind. After I started researching it in 2004 I found all these new developments that just seemed crazy. If Noreen is to be believed that her son actually visited her as an adult then I think the rest of it bears consideration at the very least.

I wonder why all these people who are coming forward about the Franklin Credit Union scandal and the pedophile rings and missing paperboys in Des Moines Iowa aren't being taken serious by mainstream media? Is it too much for us to swallow?

Noreen Gosch gets lumped in with the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists at this point, in the eyes of the mainstream anyway.

As I get older and find myself laughing off 9/11 and JFK conspiracies I wonder to myself why I still believe this woman. I think because she has always just wanted to find her son, I don't see or believe that she has profited in any way from this event, in fact it seems to have ruined her family. I think I would know my adult son if he was 12 when he disappeared. I remember him showing her a birthmark for proof or something when he allegedly visited her.

9/11 - terrorists
JFK - Lee Harvey Oswald
Johnny Gosch - ? Well the jury in my mind is still out on this one. A part of me believes they will find his remains locally some day. But I still at least partially believe Noreen Gosch. Even if it turns out Johnny was killed the day he was taken, she hasn't harmed anyone with her crusade, and in fact has helped bring awareness to the very serious problem of child abduction.

Sorry I rambled, first post in quite some time.

On 9/11 I was an OR manager in CA. I worked with a Nurse Anesthetist, who had been in the Air Force and who's wife was well connected to Washington DC, as she was head of Air Force Housing in CA, often traveling to Washington DC for conferences, congressional hearings etc.

On 911, he was receiving phone calls while we were in surgery, about the situation. Prior to the plane being shot down that morning, this man told us it was going to happen. His friend stated that the 'loss of a few American citizens, was outweighed by the safety of those who worked in the White House and the destruction of the White House, as that was a blow that would emotionally harm a larger number of Americans'.

For an interesting view of what happened and how it transpired, watch 'In Plane Site'. I was a believer that there was a conspiracy, before I saw this, as I saw and heard the conversations that transpired, but even if I hadn't been, this movie would have made me think hard about what is reality and what is perception of events.

As for John F. Kennedy, government experts could not fire the weapon Oswald used, as rapidly as he had, let alone taking the time to fire at a moving target. I also can not possibly believe in the magic 'pristine' bullet.

As usual, my opinion only, but if I believe these versions of popular events, how can I not believe what a mother says, concerning the loss of her child. She has no reason to lie, where as others involved do.

 

[Cappuccino]

She has no reason to lie, but she could be wrong. Mothers of missing children have been known to misidentify other children as their own before, so I don't go for this idea that Noreen's word is necessarily reliable when she says she has seen Johnny. I think its a case of being so desparate to believe her son is still alive that she has fallen for a whole pile of nonsense.

I'm not Cappuccino, but I think that I know the answer to your question. Yes, in all the reports I've seen, the dog was with him. I have read in a few places (sorry-I don't have the links off hand but if you go back through all these threads devoted to this case, you'll find it) that the dog either returned home on her own, or was found later that day. Either way, the dog was apparently unharmed. I've never read anything that mentions the dog barking or the dog's behavior upon returning home. The dog's name was either Gretchen or Heidi, I think.

I find it odd that nobody heard the dog bark. It would suggest that Johhny was taken by someone he knew, (or more specifically, someone the dog knew). Did the dog usually accompany him and his father on the paper round, does anybody know?

 

[SunnieRN]

If you listen to the interview of Noreen, listed up thread, one of the other paper boys, who was at the corner, heard the dog barking, after Johnny walked away.

 

[Cappuccino]

I can't find the interview, but I'll take your word for it. That's interesting, thank you. I would hazard a guess that the exact time and place of the dog barking is also the exact time and place of Johnny's abduction.

The poor child was probably dead before he was even reported missing.

 

[iowalovescaylee]

Hi all...I've been a lurker here for quite awhile but this will be my first post. I chose this thread simply because I live in Des Moines, Ia. Lived here my entire 48 years. And what I offer are just opinions and viewpoints of someone who has been exposed to this case (and Eugene Martins) since the day they happened.

My thoughts on Noreen Gosch...this woman is one of the most tortured souls you will ever hear of. I've met her a few times only because I used to manage a fast food place that she frequented, KFC, (she loves her spicy hot wings). She is a very nice woman who is not afraid to sit down and talk to you about her son. I never did but I watched while other people did. This woman has worked her you know what off EVERY single day since her son went missing. She is not crazy or delusional. She hates that she has been put in the position she is in but she is determined to everything she can to find out what happened to her son. And believe me, she has come face to face with a lot of people you and I would never give the time of day to. She has heard and seen things about her son and other children that no mother should ever see. Yet she persists and I suspect she always will. LE dismisses her as a kook. Always have.
I have read all the conspiracy theories and some of them are far fetched. Some aren't. Honestly, I don't know what I believe. As a mother, I really hope that Johnny did knock on her door that night. I hope she got the answers she was looking for.

I do know that I will never believe that she has ever made a single dollar profit. She lives in a apartment complex in West Des Moines and not one of the high end ones. The most expensive rent in this complex is 750.00 so she isn't living high off the hog. I've seen her car. Again...nothing to brag about.

As far as Mr Gosch goes...he seemed to have disappeared shortly after Johnny's kidnapping, although I am told that he is still here in Iowa somewhere. He rarely speaks publically about this.

I also can tell you that Eugene Martin's father Donald was a good friend. As was Eugene's uncle Ronald. They were from "my side of town", whereas John and Noreen lived in the affluent area of town when Johnny was kidnapped.
Donald died over a year ago without ever knowing what happened to his son. Unlike Noreen he was very uncomfortable talking with the press but I do know that he respected Noreen. Thanks to her John Gosch and Eugene Martin were the 2nd and 3rd children to be placed on milk cartons.

 

[iowalovescaylee]

Ok...I guess I lied to you good folks. The above post was my second one!!! Looks like back in May I made a sarcastic comment about George and Cindy Anthony that I forgot about. Sorry!!!