ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[minor4th]

That’s interesting. I wonder if there’s another suspect who could end up being a co-defendant.

Oh never mind, I see now that this was around the same time as the arrest. I thought it was something new.

 

[SharonNeedles]

As I heard it, the line "you have good birthing hips" is from "The Office" - perhaps the British version - wherein a nerd tries to romance a woman. Awkward attempt at humor.

No, American version. Dwight said it, I made that association right away.

 

[cottonweaver]

The document to seal was signed off on 30th December, same time as the arrest of BK & prior to finding anything in the apartment.

 

[Honeybirdette]

You raise an interesting point about BK and a “type” of woman he’s attracted to. Perhaps he was able to get dates with some women, but unable to get the women he perceived as his actual “type” to accept dates.

I am anxious to learn if he attempted to date any of the victims, and was rejected.

jmo

I have a theory on Kaylee’s injuries. I hate to write it and will stay as tactful as possible. Tons of speculation here.

The affidavit states LE could see the knife sheath on the right side of Maddie. So, Maddie would have been the closest victim when he walked in or else the sheath wouldn't be visible on entry. I think it's possible he quickly murdered Maddie and leaned over her to attack Kaylee. Her liver would be on the side closest to Maddie.

100% speculation. JMO

it does say he “later noticed a tan sheath” I got the impression from the affidavit it wasn’t straight away, it could have even been later than day upon closer inspection of the bodies.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613260958918385683

 

[CuriousObserver1]

Just an opinion: it would seem that there is a negative effect of a known TV or media person solving the crime, or even getting into it. (Look at Lucy Letby's case. I am always proceeding from presumption of innocence first, but in general, the fact that the person who first suspected her was already famed "TV doctor", played a negative role in his credibility, IMHO. So best not to have any prior or continuing media connections during the investigation and a trial. MOO).

This is a good point, I have to admit it does seem online sleuths/true crime persons do approach crimes with a 'presumption of guilt' both when someone is initially charged as well as, like this case...innocent bystanders like the neighbour, grub truck guy, housemates and boyfriends/ex-boyfriends...even his lecturer etc etc!!!

MSM have to adhere to the law, but the above can state what they like (Websleuths.com is very good at monitoring things have to say, unlike social media!) and even jeopardise a case.

 

[SoBu]

Another possibility is that his parents and sister(s) sensed that he wasn't doing well and thought it'd be good for the dad to accompany him on the drive back to PA.

IMHO, among his many emotional difficulties in life, he had poor communication skills and relatively abysmal social relationships. While I can't envision him telling his parents, it's always possible that he blurted out something to his parents or sister that was highly troubling and because of their concerns, his dad offered to come out to WA and keep him company for the drive home.

MOO

Totally agree. I’ve even wondered if they had been concerned about him moving all the way across the country in the first place, where they wouldn’t have as much of a pulse on his well-being/or lack of, but didn’t really have a say in his life decisions. Any chance to get a feel for his status may have been appealing, especially after some red flags maybe?
JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

Here's an excerpt of a recent article from the Chronicle of Higher Education:

Does Criminology Have a Crime Problem? Not at All, Experts Say

"...Chris D. Bertram, an assistant professor of criminal justice at Salt Lake Community College who has over 25 years of law-enforcement experience, said that... learning criminology in an academic setting doesn’t necessarily mean one would know how to commit homicide without leaving evidence behind.

"[Kohberger] had a good academic background in criminal justice, but he didn’t have the operational background,” Bertram said. “If you’re simply taking classes, reading Wikipedia, Googling things, you’re going to learn something, but you’re not going to know everything that is out there, including technology and higher-end law-enforcement investigative services.'

'In my career, I never had an undergraduate or graduate student who was studying criminology to commit crimes. Actually, students took my courses because they wanted to prevent and reduce crime.
'He may have considered the fact that the Moscow police department was small and didn’t have the capacities that some of the larger departments have, not realizing that the chief of police would call the FBI immediately to help with this investigation,' Bertram said. The Moscow police department has about 30 officers and has never had to investigate a crime of this magnitude before.

Joseph L. Giacalone, an adjunct professor of law, police science, and criminal-justice administration at the City University of New York John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said that it’s rare that criminology students commit crimes. 'I don’t see this as a problem for the course of study,' he said.

He said that those who carry out horrific crimes could have studied any academic discipline. 'The potential of a student committing a financial crime doesn’t stop our economics classes from teaching pyramid schemes. We’ve also seen nurses who became serial killers themselves,' Giacalone said, referring to four Austrian nurses known as 'angels of death' who killed at least 49 people in the 1980s.

According to a 2009 survey, only one in five American colleges reported that they run criminal background checks on applicants, regardless of program of study. The Chronicle asked over a dozen criminology programs at colleges across the country whether they collected data on students’ criminal backgrounds. The two that responded do not collect information on criminal backgrounds outside of self-disclosure.

Giacalone said that some of Kohberger’s actions could be attributed to him having some knowledge about how evidence is left behind. 'He did try to shut his cell phone off. He was wearing a mask — I doubt he was worried about Covid. He was probably worried about spitting and DNA,' he said. 'But he didn’t wear gloves, for example. For somebody who has been studying this, he makes a lot of mistakes.'

Joseph Scott Morgan, an associate professor of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University, in Alabama, said that many in the media and in social media aren’t aware of the differences between criminology and forensic science as separate fields of study. While criminology focuses on sociological and psychological aspects of crime, forensic science is the application of traditional sciences in order to examine crime scenes.

'Many are assuming he’s some kind of criminal mastermind that would be able to ‘cover his tracks.’ I doubt he had any kind of substantial forensic training,' Morgan said. 'There’s no such a thing as a perfect crime. Any time a human is introduced, there’s potential for them to miss something. It’s unpredictable.'

'There isn’t enough data to create a picture of his rationales,' Morgan said. 'Jumping into conclusions doesn’t help anybody involved.'"

I thought BK wore gloves. Is there any clear evidence he did or he didn't?

TIA

 

[CityKid]

One question that has been bothering me that i have not heard discussed. If this person had committed the crime (Bryan)- How did he stab 4 people in the same house and not have anyone yell or scream? I would guess he would have attacked each person individually- (maybe starting with Ethan)- Is it possible this can be done to four people without any noise? Just wondering... is it possible he silenced them somehow?

This has been discussed a lot here. Many of us have been in terrifying situations and couldn't get out a scream if we tried. Plus depending on where they were stabbed, they may have been physically unable to scream or make a sound.

 

[wary]

“He was narrating to himself everything that was happening. At one point he was saying something like “”I’m fine, this is ok.” Like he was reassuring himself.”

Does that sound like a cold blooded killer? Like Charles Manson or BTK? I can’t imagine them needing to self console like this….

Are cold-blooded killers necessarily cold-blooded about their own problems?

I don’t know

 

[cottonweaver]

I think the sealing of the search warrant is new... appx 10 days after the apartment was searched. Someone correct me if Im wrong please

The document to seal was filed 29th and then signed off on 30th December (same day as the arrest of BK ) & prior to finding anything in the apartment.
see final page of docu

a few hours after BK arrested in PA ( 3.30am) , lE swoop on Pullman apartment (7.30am)

Police raid office of Bryan Kohberger, Idaho murders suspect

Bryan Kohberger, 28, has been arrested in connection to the murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Justice101]

I think the natural body response to being stabbed in the lungs or vital organs is to suck in air and hold your breath like someone else said here.

I am thinking BK knew that fact too.

 

[ray9898]

Ok...I will read it again to confirm that, but it doesn't really matter either way.

My question is still the same. Could the search warrant have been mishandled by LE?

There is nothing in that wording that implies that in any way whatsoever. It is asking for the evidence recovered to be temporarily sealed until they have time to complete the investigative process.

 

[10ofRods]

Your description of him is exactly why I haven't even been hypothesizing about his motive. I'm not seeing anything in him. No frenzied rage, no joy, no sexual release, nothing. He seems almost childlike in his inability to understand basic social behaviors.

Agreed and I just looked back at some of your posts and some of mine, and there are a few others who keep pondering this. It could be mostly social behaviors that are so hard for him, but the restricted affect is there too so I have no idea if he experiences difficulties the way I do, or how most people seem to.

 

[isabella88]

Another possibility is that his parents and sister(s) sensed that he wasn't doing well and thought it'd be good for the dad to accompany him on the drive back to PA.

This notion struck me right away when I heard about BK's father driving with him. It hit me again when I saw the dashcam footage and how his father basically took over the conversation with the officer. I have a deep feeling that BK's family has struggled with him for many years and they believe that he is fragile. All JMO

 

[ktm44]

That's a good theory. A couple of decades ago, there was a string of rapes in Colorado and the perp would shock his victims with a cattle prod.

If BK used a taser, that would explain why they said the victims died in their sleep -- because maybe they could only lay there and couldn't fight back.

But, does a taser have to be reloaded? I don't know...

Both would leave marks and would be included in the autopsy report but I really don't think either one was used. I don't know if you've actually ever seen a cattle prod but they are quite long and not something easily concealed.

Most farm kids have experimented with them at least once and they are designed to give a rather sharp jolt but will not stun on incapacitate someone. I would consider using one on other humans in the commission of a crime to be a form of torture or abuse but certainly nowhere near the voltage needed to incapacitate another human.

 

[CGray123]

Here's the Idaho statute defining Murder in the First Degree (BBM):

"18-4003. DEGREES OF MURDER. (a) All murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, or lying in wait, or torture, when torture is inflicted with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, to extort something from the victim, or to satisfy some sadistic inclination, or which is perpetrated by any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing is murder of the first degree.

(b) Any murder of any peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, fireman, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney who was acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty, and was known or should have been known by the perpetrator of the murder to be an officer so acting, shall be murder of the first degree.

(c) Any murder committed by a person under a sentence for murder of the first or second degree, including such persons on parole or probation from such sentence, shall be murder of the first degree.

(d) Any murder committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, aggravated battery on a child under twelve (12) years of age, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem, or an act of terrorism, as defined in section 18-8102, Idaho Code, or the use of a weapon of mass destruction, biological weapon or chemical weapon, is murder of the first degree...."

 

[GRT]

This cites avoiding potential threats to law enforcement and could prematurely ending the investigation.

Could this mean that there could have been something illegal about the search warrant or how it was carried out and they could be covering themselves?

I hope not, but the could "prematurely end the investigation" part is confusing.

I don't understand why that would be.

 

[WingsOverTX]

As I heard it, the line "you have good birthing hips" is from "The Office" - perhaps the British version - wherein a nerd tries to romance a woman. Awkward attempt at humor.

That line (or slur, which is my interpretation) has been around a very long time - decades, in fact - but has been employed in humor & commentary in different ways.

When the scientist who proposed wider hips would be better for birthing, he really opened up a sexist can of worms IMO.

And I do think BK saying that is not an off-hand or just an incel-vibe. I think it goes to the heart of how he looks at women.

Then I ask myself, why?

Y'all can now insist that it's just "whatever" but I steer clear of such men.

JMO

 

[ktm44]

I thought BK wore gloves. Is there any clear evidence he did or he didn't?

TIA

Nothing has been confirmed by LE although there has been much speculation because people have been quick to assume there has been no fingerprints found at the scene.