ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2

[Erutan]

Do you have a link?

Ditto that ! ^^^

This is the first I've heard of a possible poi.
Even if it's coming from a reporter and not LE.

 

[Manwel]

I’ve also been wondering about Murphy. He would have barked if he was alive during the attacks. I really hope he is okay.

Murphy has been one of my top questions that press haven't asked about. I tweeted at someone in local news to ask about him. Hopefully that'll get traction.

Anyway, my 2 cents on dogs: I have lived with two different roommates who had dogs and I have also owned dogs myself. They almost always sleep with their owners, either in the bed or on the floor next to the bed. If they keep the dog in a locked room, the dog was there. If the door was open, then it's possible the dog could have investigated noise or been elsewhere getting water/food.

However, it's possible a dog could be locked into a room and neutralized that way, or with treats. Or, there's the worst-case scenario we're all dreading. But it begs the question of whether someone came prepared knowing there was a dog or if they were surprised to find a dog.

To me this perp fits either of the following categories:

• A campus/work peer who knows the house and all the residents well enough to know rooms, behaviors, key codes, dogs, everything about their lives, and someone who could have been invited in if they arrived at the door. They specifically targeted individual(s) out of anger/obsession, etc. This is the toxic ex-boyfriend theory.
  • This person is also potentially the 911 caller who called out of guilt for their actions after noticing that police still hadn't arrived. They are on the run or have committed suicide.
  • This person would know there is a dog present but the dog might know the perp and would not react.
  • This person wouldn't have had a target on all the women in the house, likely thinking "I liked X and Y, I don't have to harm them."
    • However, I don't think this is likely because I think police would have already had names in mind based on statements from the roommates that survived and also the family and other friends interviewed. So I'm less and less convinced it was a friend/SO of the residents.
• An obsessive stalker, either a peer or older, someone local, a neighbor or a classmate or coworker, who was not well known to the victims but someone who paid careful attention to them. Potentially canvassed their house, potentially was a peeping tom, so they were someone who knew their habits or had an idea of who the residents were. Maybe one of the women slighted him once and he is "punishing" them. This is the angry stalker theory.
  • This person could also have been the 911 caller after feeling guilt that they killed their objection of obsession.
  • This person would be aware of a dog in the house and come prepared for it.
  • This person would not have had a target on all the women, maybe just one or two he concentrated on, so he spared seeking out all rooms.
• An unknown third party who picked a house at random, or picked the victims at random, because their goal was to kill whoever they picked. This is the psychotic serial killer theory.
  • This is the town's worst fear. This is someone careful, prepared, and completely unknown.
  • This person might have followed the women to their home or picked it at random after searching for a target house that "looked good."
  • Think GSK, think Night Stalker, think Bundy, someone with outrageous overconfidence and selfish pursuit of committing terror.
  • This person could have called 911 because they liked reporting their work. It could account for Chief Fry demonstrating discomfort and frustration while briefly acknowledging the 911 caller who he refused to discuss.

Regarding the 911 caller, it does not seem at this time that the roommates were the caller. I don't see what benefit there would be to Chief Fry withholding the knowledge that one of the roommates called 911. That seems super easy to say. In fact, it's expected. The fact that he has not confirmed one of the roommates called makes me wonder if there was another caller who said "unconscious" since Chief Fry agreed, that's not how normal people would report a stabbing. Moreover, if the roommates were sleeping in after a late night, perhaps the police woke them up and they found the scene at that time?

If the police eventually confirm the roommates were the 911 caller, I don't know what they think they gained by hiding that. Not discussing who called makes it seem like it was the perp.

 

[green19]

For what it’s worth…if the weapon is the KA knife, that is a weapon often given to soldiers. Assume training goes along with it. I am going to see if the neighbor wants to join us. Her info has panned out so far.View attachment 380452

New here (first post).

My thoughts only - I believe one of them was the intended or "targeted victim" (victim #2), and she was targeted because of her social media. Is it possible killer is someone who knew her from home in CDA who perhaps went to school with her or grew up with her and had a strong obsession with her and at some point in the past was rejected/felt humiliated by her? If victim #2 received the brunt of the violence or it was different in some way, this could be why. There are probably significant clues on one or more of the victims' social media, texts, etc, and LE is currently sifting through all of this.

But if he did know her from when they were younger or going to school together, I think he still lives there. I think he also may have access to "edged weapons" such as KA-Bar Knives and possibly NVGs (night vision goggles), probably because of his background (i.e. he is into hunting and outdoor activities) and/or maybe because of his job (outdoors store, military surplus, etc). If so, maybe LE should expand the search to talk to outdoors stores further afield in Idaho (at least w/in reasonable driving distance) and not just locally. Maybe this is already happening.

Along these lines, maybe the killer stalked or waited for all of them to go to sleep, and then after he committed the murders he returned back to CDA or wherever he lives. Perhaps this is why LE initially thought there was no imminent threat to the local area?

He could not have her and she was leaving soon, so no one else could.

This is all IMO only.

 

[PrairieWind]

Approx 19:25 in this video, girl in black jacket (whose jacket is that?) points and says "stop being a weirdo."

So so creepy.

I can't make out anything she says. Can you really hear that? She and the other girl clearly interact with those two guys, some back and forth conversation. But the girls are still laughing and smiling with each other, etc. so they don't seem on edge or alarmed to me. I do think the one guy is of interest since he arrives with them, seems to be waiting there for them, then as soon as the girls get the food, they immediately leave, and then he leaves in a bit different direction. So it seems his reason for being there was due to the girls (since he doesn't order any food). Certainly could be innocent, but I am sure the police very much would like to identify and speak with him. It shouldn't be hard to identify him.

 

[Sundog]

sorry for another post, but wondering could the first floor originally have been some sort of garage/ basement area that had thicker walls, more sound proofing etc? and if the two at home were down there, maybe less likely to hear the noise? especially if the attacks occurred on the 3rd floor?

The Zillow and other real estate sites show both the current property and earlier photos of the property before the renovation, and in the earlier photos there was an unattached garage on the property. Looks like they tore it down to make room for more outside parking, which makes sense since this is a 6-bedroom home and rented by multiple college students with possibly 6 cars.

 

[uburoi1]

Just a reminder:
'Occam's razor' is the idea that getting unnecessary information out of the way is the fastest way to the truth or to the best explanation.

 

[Seattle1]

A view inside the home in Moscow, Idaho, shows a solo cup in the kitchen on Nov. 14, 2022. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)


A view inside the home in Moscow, Idaho, shows a lit upstairs bedroom light on Nov. 14, 2022. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)

It's shocking to see these photos by Fox News dated Monday, Nov 14 -- only one day after the deceased bodies of the residents were discovered. I don't know if the photographer snuck up to the house in the evening hours but I'd feel better knowing the crime scene/evidence was being guarded on Monday.

It appears red evidence marking tape is stuck on the windows and sliding glass door in the above photos.

Also eerie to see Kaylee's new Range Rover and most likely Xana Kernodle's Honda Civic (i.e., AZ tags) parked in front of the entrance.

Photos link:

University of Idaho homicide victims believed stabbed to death in 'isolated, targeted attack': police | Fox News

No suspects in University of Idaho attack in custody as of Tuesday morning

www.foxnews.com

 

[Erutan]

Murphy has been one of my top questions that press haven't asked about. I tweeted at someone in local news to ask about him. Hopefully that'll get traction.

Anyway, my 2 cents on dogs: I have lived with two different roommates who had dogs and I have also owned dogs myself. They almost always sleep with their owners, either in the bed or on the floor next to the bed. If they keep the dog in a locked room, the dog was there. If the door was open, then it's possible the dog could have investigated noise or been elsewhere getting water/food.

However, it's possible a dog could be locked into a room and neutralized that way, or with treats. Or, there's the worst-case scenario we're all dreading. But it begs the question of whether someone came prepared knowing there was a dog or if they were surprised to find a dog.

To me this perp fits either of the following categories:

• A campus/work peer who knows the house and all the residents well enough to know rooms, behaviors, key codes, dogs, everything about their lives, and someone who could have been invited in if they arrived at the door. They specifically targeted individual(s) out of anger/obsession, etc. This is the toxic ex-boyfriend theory.
  • This person is also potentially the 911 caller who called out of guilt for their actions after noticing that police still hadn't arrived. They are on the run or have committed suicide.
  • This person would know there is a dog present but the dog might know the perp and would not react.
  • This person wouldn't have had a target on all the women in the house, likely thinking "I liked X and Y, I don't have to harm them."
    • However, I don't think this is likely because I think police would have already had names in mind based on statements from the roommates that survived and also the family and other friends interviewed. So I'm less and less convinced it was a friend/SO of the residents.
• An obsessive stalker, either a peer or older, someone local, a neighbor or a classmate or coworker, who was not well known to the victims but someone who paid careful attention to them. Potentially canvassed their house, potentially was a peeping tom, so they were someone who knew their habits or had an idea of who the residents were. Maybe one of the women slighted him once and he is "punishing" them. This is the angry stalker theory.
  • This person could also have been the 911 caller after feeling guilt that they killed their objection of obsession.
  • This person would be aware of a dog in the house and come prepared for it.
  • This person would not have had a target on all the women, maybe just one or two he concentrated on, so he spared seeking out all rooms.
• An unknown third party who picked a house at random, or picked the victims at random, because their goal was to kill whoever they picked. This is the psychotic serial killer theory.
  • This is the town's worst fear. This is someone careful, prepared, and completely unknown.
  • This person might have followed the women to their home or picked it at random after searching for a target house that "looked good."
  • Think GSK, think Night Stalker, think Bundy, someone with outrageous overconfidence and selfish pursuit of committing terror.
  • This person could have called 911 because they liked reporting their work. It could account for Chief Fry demonstrating discomfort and frustration while briefly acknowledging the 911 caller who he refused to discuss.

Regarding the 911 caller, it does not seem at this time that the roommates were the caller. I don't see what benefit there would be to Chief Fry withholding the knowledge that one of the roommates called 911. That seems super easy to say. In fact, it's expected. The fact that he has not confirmed one of the roommates called makes me wonder if there was another caller who said "unconscious" since Chief Fry agreed, that's not how normal people would report a stabbing. Moreover, if the roommates were sleeping in after a late night, perhaps the police woke them up and they found the scene at that time?

If the police eventually confirm the roommates were the 911 caller, I don't know what they think they gained by hiding that. Not discussing who called makes it seem like it was the perp.

bbm
Good points !
Agreed with the bolded, LE could just say it was a roommate, and not name the person.
Although maybe that call ties in with someone else they have their sights on ?

 

[Manwel]

how long after an autopsy is done are the results released to the public usually? will the autopsy offer us any insight?

If the autopsies were all conducted yesterday, I would assume there will be another press conference today or Friday to share more information. Unless they have a longer wait on DNA results. I would assume Spokane is fast-tracking this.

The biggest detail that has been acknowledged by the coroner is anticipation of finding evidence from the perp during the autopsy. You have to wonder if sexual assault will be revealed from autopsy or if the perp left behind their own blood or hairs or fingerprints.

 

[Manwel]

View attachment 380469
A view inside the home in Moscow, Idaho, shows a solo cup in the kitchen on Nov. 14, 2022. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)

View attachment 380470
A view inside the home in Moscow, Idaho, shows a lit upstairs bedroom light on Nov. 14, 2022. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)

It's shocking to see these photos by Fox News dated Monday, Nov 14 -- only one day after the deceased bodies of the residents were discovered. I don't know if the photographer snuck up to the house in the evening hours but I'd feel better knowing the crime scene/evidence was being guarded on Monday.

It appears red evidence marking tape is stuck on the windows and sliding glass door above.

Also eerie to see Kaylee's new Range Rover and most likely Xana Kernodle's Honda Civic (i.e., AZ tags) parked in front of the entrance.

Photos link:

University of Idaho homicide victims believed stabbed to death in 'isolated, targeted attack': police | Fox News

No suspects in University of Idaho attack in custody as of Tuesday morning

www.foxnews.com

The red tape is likely to prevent or reflect intruders. If the tape is torn from movement at a point of entry, then someone attempted to re-enter the scene who wasn't supposed to.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Leftover Halloween decor? I honestly don't know, but I just can't imagine someone bleeding out in a house to the point that it runs down the outside walls of the house. I could be wrong, but that's just improbable.

IMO it's most likely condensation from metal pipes.

 

[Sundog]

how long after an autopsy is done are the results released to the public usually? will the autopsy offer us any insight?

The police chief said at the press conference that toxicology test results will take from 4-6 weeks.

 

[Erutan]

New here (first post).

My thoughts only - I believe one of them was the intended or "targeted victim" (victim #2), and she was targeted because of her social media. Is it possible killer is someone who knew her from home in CDA who perhaps went to school with her or grew up with her and had a strong obsession with her and at some point in the past was rejected/felt humiliated by her? If victim #2 received the brunt of the violence or it was different in some way, this could be why. There are probably significant clues on one or more of the victims' social media, texts, etc, and LE is currently sifting through all of this.

But if he did know her from when they were younger or going to school together, I think he still lives there. I think he also may have access to "edged weapons" such as KA-Bar Knives and possibly NVGs (night vision goggles), probably because of his background (i.e. he is into hunting and outdoor activities) and/or maybe because of his job (outdoors store, military surplus, etc). If so, maybe LE should expand the search to talk to outdoors stores further afield in Idaho (at least w/in reasonable driving distance) and not just locally. Maybe this is already happening.

Along these lines, maybe the killer stalked or waited for all of them to go to sleep, and then after he committed the murders he returned back to CDA or wherever he lives. Perhaps this is why LE initially thought there was no imminent threat to the local area?

He could not have her and she was leaving soon, so no one else could.

This is all IMO only.

bolding mine.
Great first post !
Welcome to Websleuths !!!

 

[Manwel]

My pure speculation is that the dog was at her parents house. Per all the articles posted - Kaylee was just back for the weekend to show off her new car - she was graduating and moving on

Learning more details about Kaylee being in town just for the weekend is both terribly depressing to learn because she was almost done and on her way out of school, but it does also make it sound like she could have been the target.

But all the dog-lovers out here are happy to hear the dog is safe.

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

Regarding the food truck video. Everyone keeps talking about the guy that put his hood up. I noticed him, too, but, I also noticed the bigger built guy. The girls seemed pretty friendly with just about everyone else except for him. The one girl walks back and forth in front of him really close and doesn't appear to even acknowledge him. It just seems like they're really friendly with everyone, but it seems like they're purposely avoiding the bigger built guy. Maybe they don't know him and I'm reading too much into it?

 

[Eric Trott]

I think your starting point and destination may be flipped. No biggie, just trying to help.

The way they walked across the street also leads to plenty of spots to sit and eat, bars either direction, etc. Just like with the direction hoody/jacket fella walked off screen (towards public restroom, large parking lot, eventually campus, etc), I don't think it's quite as meaningful as everybody is hoping.

But yeah, if there are cameras at Hwy 95 & Sweet or Hwy 95 & Troy Rd like somebody said before, it's certainly possible the car would be seen. Unless they drove through campus, which I doubt a cab/Uber/whatever would do unless necessary.

An Uber is definitely taking the fastest route. They don't get paid per hour.

And, yeah, I'm pretty sure my route was flipped when I tried to "find route." That makes much more sense now. I guess that's what I get trying to do it at 1am.

 

[Khammer]

I would think this too, but in an interview kaylees sister said they got home and let the dog out which leads me to believe murphy was there

I interpreted the whole “took Ubers back and forth, let dog out, locked the doors” thing as an overview of their daily safety habits, and not what the did the night of their murders. JMO

 

[BeSweets]

Regarding the food truck video. Everyone keeps talking about the guy that put his hood up. I noticed him, too, but, I also noticed the bigger built guy. The girls seemed pretty friendly with just about everyone else except for him. The one girl walks back and forth in front of him really close and doesn't appear to even acknowledge him. It just seems like they're really friendly with everyone, but it seems like they're purposely avoiding the bigger built guy. Maybe they don't know him and I'm reading too much into it?

It looked to me as if the heavier set man and the man with the hoodie engaged in conversation at one point. They also stood at each side of the girls, if you will, at one point. He initially creeped me out first and more. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one.

 

[Emj]

Thanks for the information. Going off on a limb....

As noted, the knife was made famous in WWII as a fighting knife.

I don't think its a knife that most hunters would use. It is large, adds weight and the blade is bigger than needed. Hunters usually view knives as tools (some brands of tools can be costly), but they are not prone to carry over kill knives "because I can" style.

Rather, I think a Kabar would be owned by either:

A- A knife nut who is interested in knives in general and buys a variety of knives. Some maybe be modern, others maybe historical (Kabar, Bowie, Gurkha, etc). The vast majority of certified knife nuts are harmless.

B- A macho, Alpha male type who purchased it because it simply because looks mega cool and is associated with the Marines.

Though some As and Bs may overlap, a "Kabar Kabar" would probably have to of been purchased on line or from a knife catalog such as SMKW. Local stores would probably stock hunting knive and pocket knives. Likewise, the "Kabars" that I have seen in pawn shops were all knock offs and not really Kabars.

Great insight about the KaBar not being particularly useful as a hunting knife. One thing I'd add that slightly contradicts your insight; one can purchase a genuine, full-size Ka-Bar knife on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/KA-BAR-Marine-Corps-Fighting-Straight/dp/B001H53Q6M
IMO, their ease of purchase could make it a bit more difficult to pinpoint who might have purchased one. On the other hand, it does beg a question: can law enforcement (FBI) get access to Amazon purchases shipped to a specific geographic region? For example, if I know they item number of a Kabar knife, can I get a list of all shipments of that item number sent to zip code XXXXXX in the last six months? It SEEMS to me that once an investigator has narrowed down the item and a specific city/set of zip codes, they should be able to find out if any of that item was shipped regionally.
Seeing as the suspect could get that particular knife anywhere, Amazon may not be the only retailer, but if you could at least check them it might create a really small suspect pool. Especially if any purchasers overlap with your POIs.

 

[Sarahlou]

Anyone seen some disturbing comments left on Kaylee's last Instagram post? It's probably just a sick troll though. Some very twisted people out there.