ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

[Diddian]

I know we can’t speculate but the dynamic of K and her ex’s relationship would be interesting to know in more detail. Who broke it off initially, why, was there hesitation from one of them about getting back together? She seemed to be starting a new life so was anyone feeling left behind? Was she the one pushing to get back together?

Also, drunk calling an ex and having them passed out and not answer is one thing. But if you suspect the ex is not answering because they are blocking you or mad at you is another - so you try a phone that maybe isn’t blocked like a friends thinking they’ll answer for them. Something about that relationship that we don’t know and I can’t put my finger on it. Like one of them maybe wanted to get back together more than the other one but all of this is pure speculation and me thinking out loud.

So many questions about that part of the story - I do think it interesting that she had moved out but happened to be there that particular night so I feel she was the intended target and rage got the best of the perp and they killed whoever was in his way. I do think X and E were in the wrong place at the wrong time and happened to be where the perp had to enter and exit. Did they say who was killed first?

Here’s what I think happened - intended target was K, M was a victim because she was right there and maybe woke up and saw what was happening.

Wasn’t E the one not in bed? He got up to see what the commotion was and encountered the perp. X was awakened and tried to fend off the attacker hence her defense wounds.

What I can’t wrap my mind around is that there was no screaming? No noise? Any cameras nearby showing a vehicle driving away?

I do think there was one intended target and the others only HAD to be killed because they saw the perp but then the perp realizing he had taken this further than he intended and got out of there quickly to avoid being seen by the other two roommates.

I just feel it’s someone that knew K was there for that night.

When I consider "why" the four victims but not the two spared roommates (and thank goodness their lives WERE spared), I come up with a few possibilities:

If this was a stranger (or relative stranger) who had been peeping and watching the females in the home from the tree-hidden area at the back of the property (and on the edge of the parking lot to the nearby Queen Apartments), he may have been unaware of the bedrooms at the first level (because there are no windows to those bedrooms at the back side of the house). If he saw the front stairs while inside, he may have simply assumed the front stairs went to utility spaces entered from the door from the parking area.

If this was a person known to the females and was a vengeance or rage killing due to a broken relationship, then the fact that the three females who were murdered were also longtime friends who had grown up together around the CdA area might be relevant. Perhaps the friends of the primary target had encouraged her in the breakup, urging her to spread her wings untethered as she launched into her adult working life. Alternatively, maybe they didn't do that, but the perpetrator believed they had. Either way, the perpetrator may have considered the friends at fault for the primary target's rejection of him. In this scenario, EC was killed because he was spending the night and was in the way.

ETA: JMO, in speculating about possibilities. Also, IMO the perpetrator in the second scenario wouldn't necessarily be the rejected boyfriend himself. It could be a close friend who witnessed how troubled the rejected boyfriend was by the breakup. And that could be a close friend at college, or one back home.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Killer found his prey at the bar that night, followed them home and waited til lights went out and proceeded. Like Ted Bundy and Cary Stayner, had been wanting to do this for years. Perp May have already killed before, but I think these victims never met their killer.

I'm not sure about that we haven't heard anything, zilch, zero, nothing where the two surviving housemates where that night or where Xana and Ethan were from 10pm onwards or the party Maddie and Kaylee went to on the Friday night to narrow it down. From the interview with Kaylee's mum this is one of the reasons she drove back, also to show off her car and go to the pi pi party on the Friday night. Too many unknowns.

 

[starviego]

A lot of people are speculating on a serial killer but I just don't see that at all. I don't know the statistics, but I believe serial killers do not usually go for four victims at one time. Technically, that's referred to as a mass murderer.

Though there are rare exceptions. Like BTK, Bundy, & Cory Staynor. No profile is perfect. But I concur with your conclusion.

 

[Oakie]

I know that hunting is a big part of culture in the area, and even in a college setting, a student carrying around a smaller knife wouldn't shock me. However, I have never known for people to carry around a hunting knife of that size on the regular. Am I just uniformed? I think just the size of the weapon in question debunks the "visitor/ house guest that snapped" theory, and indicates some level of pre-meditation.

At the college I attended, back more than 40 years ago, one of the students dressed in buckskins and wore both a bowie knife and a tomahawk on his belt, every day on campus. He was a rustic type from Jackson County, KY, and we viewed him as harmless, if a bit eccentric. I imagine that such a thing would not be accepted nowadays.

One of my friends there on campus had grown up without much and for a while, as a student, lived off campus in an old school bus. He never wore shoes, no matter how cold the weather; I have many memories of seeing him walk around barefoot in snow and single-digit temperatures.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I think the calls to Jack are a red herring from an investigative standpoint, and I'd like to point out that people in Maddie & Kaylee's lives have all been cleared, and yet there is zip, nada mention of anyone in Xana or Ethan's lives being cleared. Social media and online-sleuths-wise, the attention has almost exclusively been on Kaylee and Maddie; Xana and Ethan are considered by many to just having had been at the wrong place at the wrong time and got "unlucky". But we truly do not know that.
We seemed to have just assumed, largely as a whole, Maddie and Kaylee were the targets because they were a set of gorgeous best friends.
However, Xana was also very beautiful (just in a more classic way, not so much the 'blonde hair and fake eyelashes' sort of pretty) and very strong, very funny (from what I gathered from her friends, family, and social media accounts), and Ethan was a handsome kid who was also hilarious and "the life of the party", "lit up any room he walked into" ~ quotes by his parents. I could easily see them being the target of aggression and vengeance by someone jealous of something one, or both, of them had.

Sorry for the long spiel! I cannot stop studying this case. I brought it up to a few of my professors and they said they both admitted to late nights scrolling and reading for hours about it too. It is captivating in the sickest and saddest possible way.

MOO
A house full of pretty, popular young girls seems an obvious target for a deranged, homicidal misfit- a stalker or rejected suitor. Maybe too obvious.

If I understand correctly, Ethan didn't live in the home but may have regularly stayed there to be with his girlfriend. I suppose it's possible that someone who has known Ethan since before he went to college or before he had any "sleep-over" type relationships could have a festering rage/jealousy that evolved into a plan to get away with the violent, bloody murders without appearing to be an obvious suspect. Did someone ( probably a male, considering the crime), from Ethan's past feel abandoned? This can happen even in platonic relationships.

Let's face it- most of us, including myself, didn't think of Ethan being the primary target and the girls as collateral damage. Maybe that was the killer's plan from the beginning. Did Ethan have someone from his past who felt abandoned?

If the killer has a mental health issue that was either undiagnosed or previously controlled with meds and therapy, the significant life change of leaving the parental home and watching friends move on to new relationships could trigger a relapse or escalation. Meds for Generalised Anxiety/Depression, ADHD, OCD, and Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) or Conduct Disorders don't mix well with alcohol or recreational drugs. MOO

 

[Friday Fan]

A lot of people are speculating on a serial killer but I just don't see that at all. I don't know the statistics, but I believe serial killers do not usually go for four victims at one time. Technically, that's referred to as a mass murderer. In any case, I just don't think it was a serial killer. I think it was a neighbor or someone they know

We don't know if this is the killer's first

 

[scapa]

Maybe

I’m not able to see any comments.

Me neither -- I'm a WaPo sub, and while there are 3 comments listed, none are visible and readers are invited to "be the first to comment." Maybe pulled after moderation?

 

[livewiiiiire]

A video i saved a few days ago of the forensics swabbing and taking photos of what i believe to be living area on the 2nd floor, I originally thought it was Kaylee's room but it seems the two rooms both have the good vibes art decor.

The second photo makes me wonder if the Good Vibes LED sign was on when the murders took place (apologies if this has been discussed, trying to keep up!). It also makes me wonder if any other decorative lights were left on in the house, I know when I was younger and living with roommates, we usually left fairy lights/beer signs on at night. That would definitely help visibility if a stranger were walking through the house.

 

[Sillybilly]

Admin Note > Horse's mouth:

LE has said the skinned dog is not related.

Detectives are aware of a Latah County Sheriff’s Office incident of the report of a skinned dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident. Contact Latah County Sheriff’s Office for further details. Additionally, Detectives are also aware of a Moscow Police incident of the report of deceased animals left on a resident’s property. This was determined to be wildlife activity and unrelated to the incident.

Members have been advised before not to discuss it any further. If you still wish to discuss it further, call the Sheriff's Office but don't post about it here or you may lose posting privileges.

Thank you.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I’m curious As To what was said on The voicemails, Hey J We just got Home And The Dog Is missing… This might tell investigators that the person (s) responsible Were already inside The House lying In wait..

I'm wondering if voice messages were left or if the girls are who actually made the calls.

 

[acutename]

Have LE said they were? I was thinking it was the coroner who'd said that and she looked like she wasn't sure in the interview I saw what she should and shouldn't share, or how much detail. I thought maybe she stopped herself from elaborating on specifics and E was in the hallway but the rest were in their beds, but I think the only source of E in the hallway has come from his parents, from what I can tell, and really early on, so I'm really not sure if it's accurate.

I thought it was the parents' interview but I just re-watched that and it is not. I do think that news items get edited and re-released sometimes so when you go back to find something it was "updated" and it is not there. IMO

 

[JSTANOVICE]

I'm wondering if voice messages were left or if the girls are who actually made the calls.

Good Point, It Could’ve been made by The killer, Not leaving a voicemail might be a clue

 

[truthteller1]

The most logical explanation I still believe is that bf/gf Ethan and Xana were the primary targets.

This was a crime of intense passion and furious anger, in my analytical opinion. Someone that couldn’t have Xana or lost the opportunity, IMO. Intense feeling of rejection and was jealous she was happy with new boyfriend, IMO.

Madison and Kaylee were collateral damage, probably witnessed something off and called that old boyfriend 10 times before suffering same fate, IMO.

This is someone that desired Xana, IMO. We need to be looking into Xana’s hometown and former relationships. Everything IMO.

I also think this is the most likely scenario.

 

[sandmannc]

Doubtful, this was a very violent and personal murder. Murder for hire would maybe cut their throats. This personal overkilled and acted with an intense amount of rage. IMO

+
You were replying to my brother's post here...my opinion was that the suspect is a female student who goes to UoI and has a boyfriend at the college too. Maddie or Kaylee could have flirted with this female's boyfriend and maybe they continued this flirting with him and had been warned by her to quit the flirting but they continued. She went home (home being western Washington or elsewhere) where she discussed this problems with her friends during fall break and told them that Maddie/Kaylee had to go. So she found a male friend from home that said he could take care of the problem for her. So she saves the money from what her parents give her for her monthly allowance for school and tells '"friend" here is $5,000 maybe only $2,000 to take care of my problem. He does the deed and afterwards heads back home to Washington state or surrounding other states. This is just my theory.

 

[Friday Fan]

This thread moves so fast so forgive me, but I am so puzzled about the lack of security cameras or ring cameras. Did the apartment building next door have any security cameras? Is it a large complex? For all we know the perp could have lived in that complex and had been spying on the house for a long while. I hope to goodness the police have more than what they are telling us and are close to closing in on the perp.

Ring cameras and CCTV are very overrated. Cameras are best for property crime. This was a rent district so Ring is not as common. CCTV are there to protect business. Many traffic cams do not record. (At least in Texas they don't)

In a nutshell: The cameras are designed for property crime and theft detection.
CCTV at businesses are designed for crimes that occur at the business. They are not designed to see random people on streets and sidewalks. We had the problem with Lina. Business cameras point inward, not outward. Unless a perp stopped at a business, we likely won't see him.

 

[newredtabby]

@KREMAmandaRoley


Every woman on the University of Idaho campus will get a key chain alarm—all thanks to a group of alumni who want current students to feel safe. https://bit.ly/3U75zvr
@KREM2

View attachment 382143

krem.com
University of Idaho alumni look to provide key chain alarms for Greek life students
The safety alarm key chains are called She's Birdies. When you pull it apart, an alarm sounds and flashes a bright light.

8:08 AM · Nov 23, 2022

This is great, but why only women? Surely the men on campus are worthy of this security as well.

 

[Boodles]

Maybe there was no target. Maybe all of them were the target. Maybe it was someone just wanting to kill someone, no matter who it was.

Like Ted Bundy.

 

[sweeper818]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but IMO I do believe that LE knows way more than what they're letting on. I think they have a suspect, and they're collecting as much concrete evidence as possible before they make an arrest. I think they are watching and tracking this individual.

I've been thinking this as well considering they said they think it was a targeted attack and no threat to the public

 

[Tbone144]

I wonder if they are looking/comparing the unsolved Katherine Janness case. She was stabbed 50 times in Atlanta park, seemingly no DNA left behind. Police have released info that they will be analyzing dog for dna from killer so killer opts to not kill dog and risk bite or transfer this time.

'We are getting close': Atlanta police say Piedmont Park murder investigation still 'very active'

Atlanta Police Department investigators said Katie Janness' murder investigation is still “very active.” Investigators are still assessing biological, physical and electronic evidence.

www.fox5atlanta.com

Idaho might be a good place to hide out if you are wanted for murder in Atlanta.

Just something that crossed my mind while thinking on this case.

IMOO

 

[JSTANOVICE]

One Of The Members brought up a good point about questioning Who Made The several calls To The ex b.f J .. Which makes Me Wonder If The killer was jealous Of K ex boyfriend, Maybe She still had strong feelings for Her Ex… And This Admirer Grew tired of it.. I’m sure someone has thought of the Already, just So Many ways This multiple murder Can Go! It’s So Sad but Fascinating