ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[pamelado2]

How so?

Because normal defense wounds to the hands/ arms in a stabbing are cuts not bruising.

 

[TL4S]

Interesting hypothesis, but I feel that if any of them were awake enough to get up and defend themselves against a single perpetrator that one or more would have escaped or had time to call someone. Likewise, I imagine the girls under them would have heard some screams or similar.

My opinion.

I agree, I don't think any of them were up long enough to get a handle on the situation and make the necessary moves to get help.

But, we have LE not wanting to release the 911 calls, and unwilling to release where or how the victims were found within the house other than two on the 2nd floor and two on the 3rd floor, some in bed, but not all. Only the killer would know where everyone ended up.

As one random example: the killer came in the 2nd floor door, attacked E in bed and X tried to fight some and then flee, but the killer caught her and killed her on the bedroom floor by the door. The killer goes to leave out the same door, but while passing the stairs to the third floor, he sees either M or K standing at the top of the stairs looking down to see what is going on. He rushes up the stairs, following her as she runs to the room where the other roommate is asleep. He kills them both in one room. The next morning, surviving roommate comes up the stairs and sees X in the bedroom doorway. Like I said, just one of many possible scenarios. But I don't know how much screaming necessarily took place. Not everyone screams when scared, and quick stab wounds to the upper torso would likely prevent screaming, as well. Jmo.

 

[Emerald15]

Hi,

New poster here. Does anyone know if there are any curtains on the windows and sliding glass door?

 

[hopewell]

Because normal defense wounds to the hands/ arms in a stabbing are cuts not bruising.

Going to need a source on that, because to me if someone is on top of someone stabbing them with a great deal of force - which it would have to be a great deal of force - and someone reflexively put their arms up to defend themselves, then bruising would certainly be possible (if not a virtual certainty).

My opinion.

 

[GGbankster]

I'm with you on LE always not always being forthcoming and withholding key bits of evidence and information, but they are not going to say things like they were likely asleep if they weren't in fact likely asleep. A defense attorney would have a field day with things like that if they weren't factual.

My opinion.

If the court allows everything that was said by a coroner and LE during a press release to the public , we will never be able to jail murderers. There’s a reason why certain wording were “we believe” “we do not believe at the moment” vague and it gives room for error.

There is a reason incorrect info are circulated by LE, they want a killer to come out with an information only a killer would know. MOO

 

[Joyful Simpleton]

Not assuming a male here. Anecdotally, we were eating at a sports bar a couple of days ago, and they happened to have womens MMA on the TV. I have no doubt a female could do this

I agree. Jodi Arias and Courtney Clenney come to mind.

 

[Diddian]

Just a thought. Woke up in the middle of the night and started thinking about the dog. On Fox last night, with Lawrence Jones, he specifically asked if the dog was in the house the whole time and the State Police spokesperson said “Yes” <modsnip - off limits> My reasoning is because whoever this was did NOT hurt Murphy. I also believe that the killer was familiar to Murphy and liked him.

If Murphy was in the house throughout the attacks, then I wonder if he was there throughout the evening. We know K and M were away from roughly 10 pm until just before 2 am (at a downtown bar and then food truck) and that E and X were away from 9 pm until 1:45 am for the sorority and Sigma Chi parties (although don’t have confirmation either or both were away all of that time) and we know the surviving roommates were out and returned around 1 am.

So, was Murphy locked inside alone from at least 10 pm until at least 1 am? Typically, if all members of my family aren’t in bed, my dogs remain awake and need to take outside potty breaks in the late evening. Did the residents leave the second floor sliding door propped open so Murphy would have access to outside? I wonder if adjacent neighbors noticed that being done that night or other nights if that was a common practice.

 

[meade]

I don’t remember this from the early-days of the investigation. I looked in the media thread and didn’t see it but I could have missed it.

Was there being a struggle prior to the murders ever retracted by LE? If not, this is a huge piece of of the puzzle. But again, I don’t remember this. Story was done 6 days after the incident.

MSN

The barstools placed to block the sliding door are a HUGE piece of the puzzle. This means they were actively in fear and trying to keep someone out, OR was it standard practice for some other reason?

 

[Gypsy Road]

I think the puppy hid in fear. Animals can sense death and predators and I’ve seen dogs hide during violence.
I think the survivors could have been having trauma responses and how they reacted to the trauma shouldn’t be considered through a logic lens. When we are in fight, flight or freeze mode our frontal lobes/ logic brains aren’t in control. Once I got a call about a death and it literally took my brain a few minutes before I could process what the caller was saying. To see what they might have seen, I can only imagine it was difficult to think/ process/ make sense of what they saw. So calling friends makes sense to me.

Very true. Until someone has been in their same exact shoes, we wouldn’t begin to know what was going through their mind. Like you, I got a phone call on a Sunday evening that my siblings spouse committed suicide and I needed to come quickly. I don’t recall too much of what I did immediately after the phone call, but I remember finding myself minutes later literally walking in circles from room to room not being able enough of mind to change out of my pajamas, get dressed, find my car keys and go to her aid. It’s a vivid memory I have because usually I can step into action pretty quickly. My mind was paralyzed and I went in circles for I don’t know how long. For some reason after I circled for I don’t know how long ..I checked on my cats, cleaned their litter box and filled their bowls. My husband finally pulled me back into reality and helped me get dressed and shoved me in the car. People do weird things when faced with the unimaginable,

 

[JaimeInLA]

Everyone, including X, was likely asleep according to the coroner. Following that, defensive wounds would've likely been instinctive and involuntary, or she could have been minimally conscious for a brief period of time. In any case, she didn't get up to fight anyone off, according to official reports.

We have been over this 1000 times. The coroner said they were likely asleep when attacked. Not when they died. Being attacked with a large knife, or sleeping next to somebody who is attacked with a large knife, is likely to wake somebody up.

Yes, they were all in a bed sleeping when attacked. That doesn’t mean they just stayed asleep the whole time.

Since the coroner made that statement, we have also been told that “some” of the deceased victims were located NOT in a bed.

 

[hopewell]

If the court allows everything that was said by a coroner and LE during a press release to the public , we will never be able to jail murderers.

There is a reason incorrect info are circulated by LE, they want a killer to come out with an information only a killer would know. MOO

Of course the court would allow official public statements to be admissible! Why would a court not allow potentially exculpatory evidence for a defense attorney? Because LE tells the judge "we lied just to catch him!"? That's not how it works. I mean, sure, the courts have ruled that LE can lie to a suspect in an interrogation, but a court can't exclude LE statements of fact, whether relayed to the public or otherwise.

My opinion.

 

[rescuemom]

“Her and Ethan were together about a year, give or take. And she, really, when I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot. She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,” he said."

From father of X. It makes me wonder what was in his mind to make that comparison. What may have happened in her life previously to make him say " that she had a life" and "to have a boyfriend you live with" I'm no prude as to what young college students can and will do once they get away from home or out on their own, but it struck me as odd that he referenced the boyfriend situation as " she really turned around"

If it has been mentioned, I missed it, so what is known about X previously? Was she shy? Was she opinionated? Was she independent and mature or sheltered and immature? Had her behavior previously been considered risky?? Was she a leader or a follower? I'm surprised there haven't been comments, interviews or impressions from friends or acquaintances who knew her in high school or area that she came from. Is her family intact or is she from a broken home? What is known about her??

 

[ScorpioRising]

Media asking to post your questions

https://twitter.com/x/status/1596933063107575808

 

[JenJones]

Latest on the University of Idaho Killings: What We Know

Sigh. I cannot find anything to support date and time for sorority dance EC attended. NYTimes article says evening of the 12th, but is just quoting SC.

 

[GGbankster]

Of course the court would allow official public statements to be admissible! Why would a court not allow potentially exculpatory evidence for a defense attorney? Because LE tells the judge "we lied just to catch him!"? That's not how it works. I mean, sure, the courts have ruled that LE can lie to a suspect in an interrogation, but a court can't exclude LE statements of fact, whether relayed to the public or otherwise.

I have read what the coroner have said and what LE had relayed to the public. There’s a reason their language is strategically worded. They didn’t say this for a “fact”, for example the coroner said they were “likely” asleep. She didn’t say it as 100% factual. Same with LE, their words always contains “we believe” “we do not believe” vague and not 100% certainty.

My husband is a police detective for a major crime unit in a city with 300 homicides just in 2022. I asked him these questions and he had explained why certain words were used at times when they’re in the investigation phase.

 

[huckleberryhound]

In a press conference, it was confirmed by LE that all victims were release to their respective family but only seen Ethan funerals on the news. Has any of the girls family held a funeral yet? Is it open casket ? Im wondering about their body conditions as it may give some clues who the main target was.

There was an obituary for M in the Coeur d'Alene News-Press. It says that there will be a Celebration of Life for all four victims on Friday, Dec 2 in Post Falls

 

[pamelado2]

Going to need a source on that, because to me if someone is on top of someone stabbing them with a great deal of force - which it would have to be a great deal of force - and someone reflexively put their arms up to defend themselves, then bruising would certainly be possible (if not a virtual certainty).

My opinion.

[Self-defense injuries in homicides caused by penetrating forces] - PubMed

101 homicides caused by stabbing were examined for the presence of defence-injuries. 50 victims showed 174 defence-injuries on hands and forearms (133 incision wounds, 26 stab wounds and 15 cutting through). More than two thirds of lesions were found on left arm. That those lesions mostly were...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[rescuemom]

Unless the killer had heavy duty gloves on, I could see that the knife could cause cuts on their hands. An appeal could be made to look for injuries to hands all of a sudden.

 

[sds71]

Latest on the University of Idaho Killings: What We Know

Sigh. I cannot find anything to support date and time for sorority dance EC attended. NYTimes article says evening of the 12th, but is just quoting SC.

The Sorority has pictures from the dance on their Facebook page

 

[layer]

I'm with you on LE always not always being forthcoming and withholding key bits of evidence and information, but they are not going to say things like they were likely asleep if they weren't in fact likely asleep.

Agree! I can see them giving misleading information for a specific purpose; I don't see any reason why they would be doing that with this statement.