ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[x_files]

We're a month in. An innocent someone would've reported the car stolen early on and likely prior to the murders. Anyone who tried to do so afterwards would more than likely be the killer (or accomplice).

This car essentially has to be owned and used by someone, IMO, and even with no specific plate identifiers should've been found by now.

I realize it's only a month in this investigative but I do hope the killer is caught sooner than later.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I agree, if it happened like the interviewer said the mother said her son said it did. See where I'm going with this?

I do.

I say this on multiple cases - the information given is "according to the giver/speaker".

One person's opinion/weigh-in.

You cannot ever assume that because and when Person 1 tells you what Person or Entity 2 "has said', that Person 1 is giving accurate reportage upon it.

 

[FlamingoLady]

A question for the group about the Hyundai.

Would LE appeal to the public if they thought this car was connected to the person(s) who committed this crime? To me, that seems odd.

They would absolutely appeal to the public! They are trying to find who killed 4 people. They are hoping if someone lent their car to someone, or gave someone a ride....etc...that they would come forward and share that info. By appealing to the public, it also lets the poi know the police are onto them, and give them the opportunity to come forward.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

A question for the group about the Hyundai.

Would LE appeal to the public if they thought this car was connected to the person(s) who committed this crime? To me, that seems odd.

If it was important enough and if they have few other options, yes they would.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

Not sure where bruising specific to K comes from?

“Mabbutt said that the victims showed "little bit of bruising" but "nothing significant." She added that some bruising "wouldn't be uncommon during a stabbing."”
11/17/22 Coroner Cathy Mabbutt interview
Coroner Has New Details About Fatal Slaying of 4 U of Idaho Students After Autopsies

If you are the right type of person, you can google "forensic knife wound patterns" or similar (or go to scholar.google.com). Regular google has more pictures, of course.

Someone posted a forensic picture here, early on (of a wound inflicted by a specific size Ka-Bar knife, in which the hilt bruise was clearly visible). Naturally, not every single use of a knife is going to leave crisp forensic evidence, but I do believe it's very easy to know the length of the knife and whether it had a hilt, as well as (usually) the approximate size and shape of the hilt. That's why LE went looking for Ka-Bar or Ka-Bar style knives in the first days after the murder (to at least two different stores - it's on the media thread).

Bruising is not uncommon in a stabbing - not having bruising would be unusual, especially with a hilted knife. The point is, that's the very type of thing forensics people use to figure out what knife was used (and LE act as if they have clues on this).

Further, the existence of bruises next to the knife wound says a lot about the force used.

I'm reluctant to post any articles or pictures here, but you can easily find them with various search terms. "Stab Wound Analysis" should turn up an excellent page with the list of things a coroner is supposed to measure about a wound - and it talks about the impression of the hilt on the skin, which along with other things, can often narrow the knife type down to just a few. It's quite a long list of evidence, actually, just from one knife wound.

I've always assumed that since LE went, within just a few days, to local stores inquiring about a particular knife, that the hilt bruises and taper analysis of the wounds gave them a good idea what knife it was.

 

[Peppery]

.

I would also add that it could have been privately purchased for cash and not titled or registered in the new owner's name.

then that seller better be talking to LE asap before they get caught up in this. Imagine selling a car and ending up a murdered suspect!

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Idaho murders: Police urge public to 'stay vigilant' as families gather for fall graduation

Students are preparing to leave the University of Idaho campus again after fall graduation, about one month since four students were murdered in their off-campus home.

www.foxnews.com

We are vigilant AF. I hope something breaks soon. Kaylee should be enjoying her graduation with her family & friends. Stay strong.

 

[debirlfan]

The occupants who were killed were sharing a room with someone that night, and those who were spared were not. My own opinion is that the bedrooms with the victims were unlocked, while the bedrooms with the survivors were locked prior to the attack. Possibly, the companions in the rooms were the last to enter and did not lock the doors, even if that might have been a regular practice for the primary occupants.

I have a slightly different theory regarding the doors. I believe doors were locked to keep party goers out of personal areas. Downstairs roommates were first to arrive home and go to bed. They had no idea if the others were bringing people back to the house, so they locked up.

The others all arrived home at nearly the same time and probably talked. They were all partied out and headed to bed, so they didn't bother to lock their doors.

 

[Sandy007]

Again want to start thread with hope and prayer before this thread ends there will be another break. Worked last time with car being reported 4 hours later...so

I really hope we are 1 thread away of this case to be solved.

 

[WildWest]

was just gonna ask how possible that was - crush my car, no questions asked service

Early 2000's we picked up a friend whose old used and abused car finally broke and he left it right there on the shoulder. We picked him up, he called a scrap service that picked it up and crushed it, gave him a couple hundred for scrap metal. Not sure what he might of signed when he went to pick up the $$. Grain of salt, that was a long time ago, though it seems like yesterday.

 

[10ofRods]

Here is a link to the type of knife that is referenced on the media thread (pp 1-3, I believe). There are other brands besides Ka-Bar, but apparently Ka-Bar's hilt has a specific shape to it and is also fairly thick/heavy, so often leaves impressions as a bruise.

They come in various sizes, apparently, but all have a hilt. Since the information about the knife came out even before the autopsy was done, I figure that the investigating officers, EMT's and detectives all immediately recognized the general type of knife (hilt, single blade, etc).

Maybe one of our WS knife experts will weigh in again.

 

[Walela]

We're a month in. An innocent someone would've reported the car stolen early on and likely prior to the murders. Anyone who tried to do so afterwards would more than likely be the killer (or accomplice).

This car essentially has to be owned and used by someone, IMO, and even with no specific plate identifiers should've been found by now.

IF the car was stolen one would think the owner would have reported it by now unless it was parked somewhere long term, like at an airport or stored in a garage and they do not know it isn't there anymore.

 

[SRWCF]

I would also add that it could have been privately purchased for cash and not titled or registered in the new owner's name.

Hmmm...however, the prior owner would likely send in notice to their state DMV office that they sold the car, thus declaring they are no longer liable for what happens with/to the car. There's a paper/electronic trail somewhere even if the new owner never titled or registered the vehicle.

As a side note, if this is an Idaho vehicle, we own our license plates (2 are required - front and back) in Idaho and when you sell a car, the license plates stay with the seller (they do not go to the buyer). I say this because it would be unusual for this vehicle to be driving around without any license plates because they would risk being pulled over by LE and sited.

That being said, there are a million scenarios where an old license plate not matching the vehicle could be slapped on the car for the evening to cover the driver(s) tracks during the crime. Again, risky if LE ran the plates and they didn't match. I think this criminal is much smarter than that.

{{ ALL MY OPINION ONLY }}

 

[L.laricina]

I figured they were trying to find potential witnesses, but the longer they go without locating it the more I wonder.

You're right. The fact that LE is, presumably, still looking for the vehicle may indicate that it wasn't occupied by a mere witness. I would hope that anyone, who was not involved in the crime, would step right up in an effort to clear suspicion.

 

[L.laricina]

In an earlier thread here there was discussion of combat knives being one edge sharp and the top edge serrated, made sense to me the serrated side was making the bruises, but I just looked up the brand they referenced, no serrated top, it's smooth. I'm back on hilt theororizing.

Could the length of the blade be determined by forensic analysis?

 

[Peppery]

.

I would also add that it could have been privately purchased for cash and not titled or registered in the new owner's name.

then that seller better be talking to LE asap before they get caught up in this. Imagine selling a car and ending up a murdered suspect!

 

[WildWest]

Could the length of the blad be determined by forensic analysis?

I'm sorry, I don't know. I'm super impressed they id'd as a combat knife but no idea on how they do that.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

just for reference: National Crime Information Center (NCIC) - FBI Information Systems

canada is specifically mentioned.

There is also interesting information in here about Idaho:

Federal Register :: Request Access

and the link for NMVTIS which I think is also the same as above.

National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) | Overview

The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) was created under the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992.

bja.ojp.gov

A warrant will be needed to search an individual's vehicle data - specific to place to be searched and things too be searched for by LE - but if the car is being driven, then some exceptions to the warrant requirement will prevail (imp to check appropriate state law, however, because it does vary). My hope is that the killer is toodling around an area with lots of cameras like the ones where I live and LE spots and stops. My fear is that the killer ditched that ride asap in a pre-planned location and drove away unseen.

 

[10ofRods]

IF the car was stolen one would think the owner would have reported it by now unless it was parked somewhere long term, like at an airport or stored in a garage and they do not know it isn't there anymore.

We need to add that to our list of possibilities.

I figure that the Elantra has 'issues'. Surely there are cameras somewhere in Moscow, ID that would have picked it up near a gas station or driving around town (unless it was only there on one night - which begs the question of how LE even know it was there, right?)

They have certainly gotten cell phone data from every phone in the square mile around the house, and some of those phones were moving in cars at the time they pinged - so they can try to match that up to any real time security video they might have. Some cars might have visible license plates - but what if one car is missing the front plate and has obscured the rear plate?

That could be indicative of a stolen car, right? But an innocent person who was just out driving around would see the call for info and clear it up...

If it's a stolen car with no cell data traveling along with it, that's unusual, since almost everyone has a cell phone. Someone might have deliberately left their phone at home, as part of an alibi.

Could the length of the blad be determined by forensic analysis?

Yes. One of the easier things to do, actually.

 

[L.laricina]

They would absolutely appeal to the public! They are trying to find who killed 4 people. They are hoping if someone lent their car to someone, or gave someone a ride....etc...that they would come forward and share that info. By appealing to the public, it also lets the poi know the police are onto them, and give them the opportunity to come forward.

I can get behind every point except your last one. I'm not sure that telegraphing, to the POI, that LE was onto them would do anything other than make the POI go to ground. My feeling is that someone who planned and brought this crime about has no intention of giving themselves up, and that this would be a working assumption on the part of LE.

I feel like it would be more likely, if LE thought the occupant(s) were involved, they would keep knowledge of this vehicle to themselves and use it to help confirm the identity of a POI whom LE had other evidence pointing to.