ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[lucidium]

Is it any way possible this event was a deliberate underworld assassination 'shout out' (say for example a bad debt or drug turf war) and the wrong household was targeted? Did the perpetrator(s) maybe believe they were wiping out someone's family?

Lots of things are "possible". Likelihood approaches zero in my opinion. Is there some aspect of this case that leads you to believe that possibility?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm not sure about LE, but what convinces me are my observations and beliefs about human behavior, in general. A person, even a deviant person, who is smart enough and bold enough to commit a crime like this also realizes that the easiest way to get caught for a crime like this, now or later, is to involve another person.

I have seen it said that it's rare for murderers to work in pairs or more, except gangsters, as it's pretty statistically impossible for two psychopaths to know someone so equally deviant and agree with each others plans and get along with one another, however, in the UK we have had several examples so it's not completely unheard of.

 

[layer]

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, told Inside Edition that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to Jack, who she described to be a 'young man,' at about half past two on the morning of the brutal massacre.

'Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2.26 am and 2.44 am,' Goncalvez said.

'From 2.44 to 2.52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2.52 am.'
 Idaho murder victim's sister says mystery man called night of murder

This is what I found. It doesn't say if both their phones were used or if any messages were left.

I would like to know, though.

I went back and edited exactly that. But I still think it must have been K's phone because I remember they said they were using "the family password" to access her records. Presumably M would have had a different password, but then they were like sisters.
Then again, maybe LE told them about it.

 

[Awakening]

“The victims of a thrill killer are generally strangers, although the killer may stalk them for a period of time before the attack in order to fuel the excitement of the hunt.

Thrill killers derive intense satisfaction from the process of murder—that is, the acts leading up to it—rather than the killing itself.

They come to crave the euphoric adrenaline rush provided by stalking and capturing their victims.

The primary motive of thrill killers is to induce pain or terror in their victims prior to killing them which provides intense stimulation and excitement. Stalking and hunting their prey becomes an addiction for them much like a narcotic drug.

Normally, the attack of a thrill killer is swift and there is generally no sexual aspect to the murder.

Once the victim is dead, a thrill killer typically loses interest in him/her almost immediately.

Therefore, postmortem mutilation or necrophilia is rarely engaged in by this type of serial killer.”

Why Some People Kill For Thrills

There are psychopaths who stalk and kill humans as if they were big game hunters. These individuals become addicted to murder like a narcotic and cannot stop.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

What? None of that is a response to what I said: "There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen."

Its not that there may be no evidence. Police have not stated the vehicle, may or may not be stolen.

Who said the vehicle was stolen?

 

[Vivyinsect]

Well, I do agree with that as well. I am just saying a little clarification might save some time for them. They did say this:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.

Ultimately, I understand IF this car is involved AND they want to speak w/ the occupant/s THEY will likely NOT turn themself/ves in. It will take OTHERS reporting the vehicle from WHEREVER they may see it which will then lead to the occupants. If that makes sense. Therefore, my interpretation and what I personally would do would be this. If I lived in Florida, New York, etc. AND I saw a vehicle fitting description w/out a tag or w/ a paper tag, I am taking a picture and submitting a tip. If I am a car dealer and I sold or bought a vehicle that isn't registered (honestly not sure how that works) I would be submitting a tip. If I bought or sold a vehicle privately I would be submitting a tip. What I hope is that property managers, including malls, airports, apartments, etc are scanning their lots for this vehicle possibly abandoned.

Just think of the couple that noticed Gabby Petito’s van on their dash video.

 

[debbiediablo]

And I’d like to add to this, the sleeping position.
Statistically speaking, at least one or more of the victims were sleeping on their stomach, this would give the killer total control and the sleeping victim none whatsoever, they’d be dead before they even knew what was happening. JMO

Without going back to look, I'm thinking cause of death was stabbing to chest or upper body?? I didn't think about stomach sleepers but yes, I think you've got a salient point. Upper body would mean back, IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

There are private industry satellites (think Google Maps) that take point in time snapshots. They do not hover over the same area for any length of time (and it's difficult to overstate how tiny the area they image at any one time is compared to the surface of the earth). If you have [USA] government spy satellites in mind, those would not be over Idaho. I can't imagine any satellites would be focused on Moscow, Idaho for an extended period of time.

I can only guess, but I think spy ones might hover over WA or California. Probably even Oregon Coast (I have no clue about defense, but Pacific Coast is a logical assumption).

Would it make sense to look at the images of
major roads, such as I-90, I-5 or even Route 2 in the days preceding/after murders?

Idaho has no strategic pools of water nearby and boarders a friendly neighbor, but I'd personally consider all major highways important, so maybe I-95? If they are driving East to Montana, probably there were no photos to expect. JMHO.

The PD of Idaho would know more about the time frame, but I think even if locals, they'd lie low or move out of the area for a while.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Oh, sure. The ownerS *very much a plural*.

I am sure that's plan B - but, given the number of different states' licenses one sees in the inter-mountain West, it's a lot of separate people to go try and find. Legal owner - yes. Actual driver/owner? Maybe.

Lots of college students just leave a car for their younger fraternity brother, and so it goes.

I figure there's a glitch like that, or LE would never have asked for help.

IME with overlapping deep background database research, it would be possible to rate and rank based on the information available, and check in with those owners first. literally, run each car and dig into another file for more info on the person. it's fast. is it foolproof, no, but faster than hotline tips and more reliable, and then do like anything else, start with the most likely, and broaden the scope, as needed. for example, imo a 90 yo woman living in the outer banks of nc is less likely and lower priority than a 30 something yo man living in a college town in WA, and IMO and IME it would be easier to take a lot of shots at it before crowdsourcing it. If you've had the experience working a help line for any reason, you know how bogged down that can be. IMO they know the car was there, they may suspect the car was some version of 'borrowed', and their luck may have ended there, hence the need for crowdsourcing.

of course, imo, if I'm a killer with any wits about me, I'm def not taking my own car nor am I taking a car that can be tied back to me. My planning would def take into account 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. Someone who looks like me in a random white car seen at the house - my defense atty can shoot big holes in that. Someone who looks like me in my own car seen at the house, that's throwing some reasonable doubt out the windows with both hands.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

Thank you for this info, having read it, I'm still completely confused as to what happened when 'On November 13th the surviving room mates summoned friends because they believed one of the second floor victims had passed out and was not waking up...'

I know it's been debated to the nth degree but something right there doesn't stack up.

I believe that they were asked if the victims were conscience. They called friends because their roommates didn't respond to their call. Something was out of place, they saw stains in the hallway, they may have been in shock, denial. Perhaps more was said but unconscious was recorded. I suggest that it's left as that because we really don't know now but perhaps the roommates may relate the report later.

The interesting note is.

Police believed it was a targeted event.

They are looking for footage of a larger block area after 3.

The events occurred after everyone was home and settled

It was an unusual quiet night.

 

[debirlfan]

Ahhh, this is a very good point. We don't know how the family found this out. They could have found out from LE because LE offers that information, or K's ex-boyfriend, JD, could have told K's family that M also tried to call him.

Considering how close they were, might M have been on K's family cell phone plan.

 

[Walela]

It is possible they realized the jacket had been laying there long enough (based on the condition of the jacket and the area it was found) to not be relevant to the crime which only happened a day earlier.

Totally possible.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Lots of things are "possible". Likelihood approaches zero in my opinion. Is there some aspect of this case that leads you to believe that possibility?

No not really, just the high body count and extreme and swift plus 'professional' technique nature of it, plus the lack of obvious motivation. When million dollar deals are at stake and people are living in the gangland world, an order to take out someone's family as a form of retribution could be done quite mercilessly by someone who is a hired assassin.

 

[cottonweaver]

That means the suspect is going on google maps + viewing traffic cams online to plan his attack.

I just think we're giving this killer too much credit. Driving your car that deep into the neighborhood is just dumb and risky.

If this killer's car is on camera then we need to see it. The memphis police showed the photo they had of the killer's SUV that led to the capture of the killer several months ago when that female jogger was killed. That was early in their investigation. If Moscow has something, they need to make it public. There's nothing to gain by holding it back.

in relation to your last point, I noticed this opinion from another LE commentator earlier

at around 3m 45secs

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Could the length of the blade be determined by forensic analysis?

I think so, if (for example) the tip broke off during course of committing the murder. JMO

 

[L.laricina]

In cases of emergency services they can smash doors to smithereens in no time, they are used to attending premises that are locked up, bolted, and secure. The person on the inside must always be able to get out but a door wedge wouldn't prevent that - it's deadlocks with no release that are dangerous if the resident doesn't keep the key sitting inside the lock. Whereas most stealth attackers are not coming to noisily and furiously smash your door in so a wedge will keep them at bay for a while.

I get that EMS is going to come in, no matter what. That's what a fire ax is for. I'm thinking more about people in the burning building getting out before they expire. I have two children in the house so it would seem irresponsible to block the door with a wedge. I get that there are locks that have to be unlocked, anyway--which may be difficult enough in a panic. I just don't like the idea of a door wedge, the use of which isn't as common as a door lock, being another barrier to egress in a non mass-murder emergency. It seems more likely that I would suffer a house fire than an attack of this nature.

The OP inquired as to why LE wouldn't recommend the public use door wedges. My response was to the effect that there may be a fire code issue, assuming LE even thought about it, because I had not, until accordn2 mentioned it. Then I thought about how they had come up in an active shooter training and demo that I took.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank you. I worked with many government agencies, and familiar with tracking and Common working files. Most of us have little idea of the tracking by government agencies and the data is quickly available with a stroke of the key.

Moo...I think the car was stolen. The day they announced the car, a poster found a report of a matching car stolen about 90 miles away a few days prior. I've tried to find the link. I feel FBI has every stolen vehicle with that description and the LE report for each, looking for the needle in a bag stack. I would think they have researched all vehicles within a given radius, local LE follow in up in surrounding areas, all before it was crowdsourced.
The best they can hope for are leads, descriptions, location from citizen reports.

MOO.....Ain't no way in the world the person/s in the vehicle is coming forward. The killer is to smart for that.

totally agree on all points. I don't use SM because of the work I've done in the past, and as I like to share, one of the databases actually had a last seen in public date and description. Whenever I'm in a similar facility, I jokingly ask them to make me younger, thinner and taller in the description. I usually just get a stare back. anyway, I'd love to see the report of the matching stolen car.

 

[Emerald1328]

Exactly. It is just one of several scenarios that could explain this perplexing request.

A car model, color and year. No license or serial number. No known owner. No plates ever seen? Or no plates at all? Or, perhaps, just not seen so could be either?

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.


Oh, I know what you mean. The other mention of bruising.

That's coming from her father. I believe that the coroner said there was "bruising" on the victims (and did not specify how many, I am assuming all of them). SG decided that meant "she fought defensively." Yet, the Coroner has only specifically mentioned 1 person with defensive wounds (X).

The bruises mentioned by the coroner are not equivalent to "defensive wounds" (which were mentioned separately). I am guessing the bruises that were most important were those caused by the hilt of the knife, the killing instrument. So LE got confirmation from the Coroner (IMO) that it was a hilted knife, due to bruises. K's father has misunderstood, IMO.

I believe they all had bruises, most likely, due to the weapon used and their stationary position on or in a bed.

I don’t think Kaylee’s father said anything about her having bruises or defensive wounds (that I remember). It was Xana’s father:

"Bruises, torn by the knife," Jeff Kernodle told Arizona news outlet 3TV/ CBS 5, adding that her injuries showed signs of putting up a fight against her attacker. "She’s a tough kid. Whatever she wanted to do, she could do it,"

University of Idaho victim's father says Xana Kernodle had 'bruises,' put up a fight against killer | Fox News

University of Idaho murder victim Xana Kernodle's father said the 20-year-old had 'bruises' and was 'torn by the knife' while putting up an apparent fight with her attacker.

www.foxnews.com

 

[ChitBrick]

Where can I read about the wounds and bruises on their body’s? I haven’t seen any of this yet.

 

[Emerald1328]

1122 King Road

<modsnip> November 2022

Maybe just coincidence.

What?