ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[accordn2me]

I think it’s worse than that.

It’s huge like the biggest one, but the entire top edge is aggressively serrated.

Most knives are singled edged. Not this one. We can’t be sure, but that’s the Rambo Survival knife that was iconic and Kabar made it.

It’s over the top. Not made for camping.

It’s made for penetration and damage, IMO.

I’m no expert but I believe serrated edges are for sawing. From my own experiments, a smooth edge knife cuts deeper (does more damage) when stabbing and slicing.

 

[Zinn]

It’s not a 2011 - 2013 model from my observation.

Thank you! I’m clueless about cars and did not intend to spread misinformation.

 

[shane13]

Or maybe he just kept on going until he found 'the one' he was looking for? Is that possible? If he didn't know which level or room each young woman slept in (and bearing in mind they were bunking in together so that would be impossible to know). If so, 'the one' might be the victim with most defence wounds as there was something he wanted to say to her. Maybe he located her last and once that happened then it's back out of the first floor sliding doors. Maybe perp hadn't even figured there was a downstairs level with sleeping persons, assumed it was the den or TV room.

Could be. Can they prove with forensics the order of kills?

 

[rainwaterstill]

KA-BAR never made survival knives or "Rambo knives". Do we have any real evidence that the blade used in this crime was serrated?

You can walk into any swap meet (indoor flea market) and see knife vendors selling different styles of fixed blade knives, with and without serrated edges. Many are imported knockoffs of well known brands. Knives I have seen for sale at swap meets also include imprints and names of various military branches. Army and Marine Corps knives seemed to be more common at the most recent swap meet I attended pre-covid. There were at least 4 different knife vendors at that market.
Idaho Flea Markets

Treasure Valley Indoor Flea Market
Of particular interest is that the Treasure Valley market is held 5 times per year. October 8-9, 2022 and Nov. 12-13, 2022 were the most recent dates of that market. (BBM)

According to Wikipedia, the Treasure Valley region is in southwestern Idaho and is the most populated part of Idaho.
Treasure Valley - Wikipedia.

 

[dotr]

Just in case a suspect is spotted, fwiw..rbbm

https://home.chicagopolice.org/about/contact-us/how-to-describe-a-suspect/

''To capture a criminal in these highly mobile times, it is of utmost importance for the police to promptly obtain an accurate description. Following are some of the most important identifiers the police need to apprehend criminal suspects. Keep this information in mind so that you can give the police an accurate description of any criminal or criminal incident you may observe.

Location information is critical:​

• Observe where you are and the exact location of the crime. Try to remember if you have ever seen the suspect in the area before.
• Note the time as precisely as possible.
• Observe if the suspect is carrying a weapon and, if so, what type-revolver, handgun, shotgun, knife, etc.
• If the suspect leaves the scene, note the direction of flight.
• If the suspect is in a vehicle, note as much of the following information as possible: vehicle type (auto, truck, van, etc.); color; make and model; condition (dirty, damaged, etc.); and license plate numbers.
• Note also if the vehicle has no license plates or a “license applied for” sticker in the rear windshield.
• Watch for decoys or accomplices.

A variety of general description information about the suspect should be noted:​

• Sex
• Race or national origin
• Age (estimated)
• Height-use comparisons with your own height, a door, or some other standard measure
• Weight (estimated)
• Build-fat, husky, slim, muscular, etc.

Facial information is also important:​

• Hair-note the color, texture, hairline, style; also possible dyes or wigs
• Forehead-note forehead height, and whether the skin is smooth, creased or wrinkled
• Eyes-note the color, shape (round, slanted), whether clear or bloodshot, and the heaviness of eyelashes and eyebrows
• Nose-overall shape (long, wide, flat, etc.) and nostrils (wide, narrow, flared) are important
• Cheeks-is the flesh sunken, filled out, dried or oily? are there wrinkles around nose or mouth? are cheek bones high or low, wide or narrow?
• Ears-note size and prominence (protruding or flat against head)
• Mouth-are lips thin, medium, full? do corners turn up, turn down, or level?
• Chin-what is the shape (round, oval, pointed, square)? double chin, dimpled, cleft?
• Neck-note protruding Adam’s apple or hanging jowls
• Complexion-note pores, pockmarks, acne, razor rash, bumps
• Facial hair-clean shaven? unshaven? beard, mustache, goatee, sideburns?
• Tattoos-shape and style; on what part of the body

Clothing information is also very important:​

• Hat-note color, style, ornaments, how it is worn (bill forward, backward, to one side)
• Coat-note color and style (suit coat, jacket, topcoat, overcoat)
• Shirt/Blouse/Dress-note color, design, sleeves, collar
• Trousers/Slacks/Skirt-note color, style, cuffs
• Socks-note color, pattern, length
• Shoes-note color, style, brand name for sneakers (if possible), condition
• Accessories-sweater, scarf, gloves, necktie
• Jewelry-rings, watches, bracelets, necklaces
• General appearance-neat or sloppy? clean or dirty?
• Oddities-look for clothing too large or too small; odd colors; patchwork

Look for other physical features or peculiarities:​

• Voice-pitch, tone, rasp, lisp
• Speech-articulate, uneducated, accent, use of slang
• Gait-slow, fast, limp

You will never be able to remember all of these details about any one suspect you may see. But remembering as many as possible can be particularly helpful to the police and to your community.''

 

[shane13]

<modsnip - rumor>

"At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road. It was previously reported that Ethan resided at the home; however, it has been determined that he was only visiting."

Material facts:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Could not see the two persons on the ground floor? Or had to come back down which was too much risk? Risk that police already called? Time was passing.

AIMOO

That's what I' m sayi ng or implying. The house was targeted for killing whoever was there and pepr may have observed for some time or been in house?. All for maximum effect as itt was a soft target house and all asleep and inebriated. With this theory there woulldn't be a personal grudge type thing. Just a possibility that I mull lover. MOO

 

[shane13]

I feel as you do, that it was a lot for just one person to be a target. I try to look at it as the killer would have been nervous to some degree, rushed, and possibly sweating at some point and when adrenalin takes over sometimes your mindset is super focused on an objective. I would assume not getting caught would be at the top of that list of objectives. We do not know who was first but I do know It takes a certain amount of fortitude and strength to kill in the manner in which the victims were injured. Let's say the last one put up a fairly good fight and it was just too much physically to finish the whole house. But additionally, you can think if there was a target K or M, they were not expected to be in the bed together so that may explain both being targeted. They have to go back downstairs, perhaps E and X woke up, one put up a fight the other a witness so both became the next targets, leaving no witnesses, and silencing them from alerting the police allowing them time to get away. I can not imagine killing all 4 unless the original plan of killing 1 went afoul and the rest were collateral damage or they wanted everyone and did not have the fortitude to complete the task. E was the most unexpecting individual staying the night. Anyone who knew of, or observed this home believed it to be a house of all girls.

RE "fortitude": if th is was a trained guy as I noted in my OP, this wasn't so special for him then. MOO

 

[layer]

Seems like tremendous overkill if there was a gripe against just 1 person. Thinking the whole house--all its residents-- were the targets.

This continual focus on "who was the target?" strikes me as a fool's errand. Reading too much into the damage done to any individual victim does a disservice to the investigation. The killer could have been in any of their orbits. They need to thoroughly examine the places and people associated with all of the victims, and I can't imagine they aren't doing exactly that.

Take a look at the crime scene of BTK's first murders. It was obvious to investigators that special attention was paid to the young girl, who was taken to the basement, hanged, and underwear removed. The rest of the family members were dispatched unceremoniously. The problem is that the killer had previously had no contact with the girl. Unknown to investigators at the time, however, is that the mother was Dennis Rader's coworker, and he had stalked her before the crime.

JMHO, carry on!

 

[Janitor101]

Seems like tremendous overkill if there was a gripe against just 1 person. Thinking the whole house--all its residents-- were the targets. Maybe the 2 survivors got lucky and with doors locked, perp decided 4 was enough and not worth risking being seen or apprehended.

I tend to agree with you here although I go back and forth every other day trying to zero in on a possible motive. It's entirely possible he was attempting to eliminate one of the female victims when the other female suddenly woke up. Maybe it was K who woke up and when he turned his attention to her, she kicked him in the face. That would have totally enraged the killer and would have resulted in the overkill described by her dad. In that case, maybe he wasn't singling out a specific victim, and he was just trying to kill as many victims as possible. Greg McCrary, the former FBI profiler, said in his experience in homicde investigations, the victim wasn't the target at all and instead, the victim who fought back the hardest suffered the most overkill.

 

[Emerald1328]

Thank you! I’m clueless about cars and did not intend to spread misinformation.

You’re fine! I saw the car about a week ago and thought the same thing. I looked at several 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantras online for awhile and IMO, the lights don’t match.

 

[shane13]

I tend to agree with you here although I go back and forth every other day trying to zero in on a possible motive. It's entirely possible he was attempting to eliminate one of the female victims when the other female suddenly woke up. Maybe it was K who woke up and when he turned his attention to her, she kicked him in the face. That would have totally enraged the killer and would have resulted in the overkill described by her dad. In that case, maybe he wasn't singling out a specific victim, and he was just trying to kill as many victims as possible. Greg McCrary, the former FBI profiler, said in his experience in homicde investigations, the victim wasn't the target at all and instead, the victim who fought back the hardest suffered the most overkill.

That scenario is def a possibility. We just now don't know if anyone even woke up. A stealthy knife expert only needs a half second to fatally stab both people in a single bed. The overkill if personal would be post-mortem. MOO

 

[detectivehomemom]

I feel the killer was already in the house, or knew the code for downstairs door. Targeted makes sense as most home invaders etc would not approach a home with that many vehicles and people. Leaving any survivors seems as if person had been in the home previously. Nothing stolen. This reeks of the Missy Bevers case. There’s so much evil in our world.

 

[nightrider17]

Maybe the car was reported stolen a few days before the murders by original owner.

So possibly the murders were planned for an earlier day/time - but was not able to be carried out.


MOO

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Could you clarify what you meant my friend??
I am referring to your last paragraph.

There were two occupants on the ground floor that were unhurt.

Allegedly, although fact is slim, the perpetrator entered via an open sliding door on the first floor.

Allegedly, by commentators, the first floor occupants were murdered, then second floor occupants were murdered upstairs.

Much of this information is unconfirmed by police.

Material facts here: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[Kittycat40]

I feel the killer was already in the house, or knew the code for downstairs door. Targeted makes sense as most home invaders etc would not approach a home with that many vehicles and people. Leaving any survivors seems as if person had been in the home previously. Nothing stolen. This reeks of the Missy Bevers case. There’s so much evil in our world.

If he was already in the house prior to everyone getting home then why were the girls on the 1st floor spared. My understanding is every single person was out of the house till 1am ish. So if he was in the house lying in wait he would have heard/seen every person who came into the home that night including the two on the first floor.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

snip

?? After the fact element; not sure it's causal. Perhaps it was just quadruple homicide for quadruple homicide's sake.

Four people killed with a knife. Is there such a thing as 'just' stab four people with a knife?

An assassination could have been suppressed firearm. Less risk, less chance dna, less chance blood?
Imo

 

[Kittycat40]

There were two occupants on the ground floor that were unhurt.

Allegedly, although fact is slim, the perpetrator entered via an open sliding door on the first floor.

Allegedly, by commentators, the first floor occupants were murdered, then second floor occupants were murdered upstairs.

Much of this information is unconfirmed by police.

Material facts here: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

My understanding is that the sliding glass door was on the 2nd floor.

 

[Cryptic]

KA-BAR never made survival knives or "Rambo knives". Do we have any real evidence that the blade used in this crime was serrated?

There are Ka Bars and then there are, well, still more Ka Bars.

Though Ka Bar may of never made a stated Rambo Knife, their design of the knife presented as the WWII USMC knife has evidently varied to include releases with serrated edges.

This could be because the originals also included variants with serrated edges (sometimes military requirements can change), or simply because the knife has had a 80 year plus production run.

 

[Moonglow630]

My understanding is that the sliding glass door was on the 2nd floor.

Correct

 

[crimesnooper]

The car can go to the soup pot, but I have questions about that dog...when was he locked up, was it his default sleeping location, and if no one knows how he got locked in the non-crime scene room then it might have been the killer...who knew house and dog well enough to do it without setting off a lot of barking and door scratching, maybe even chewing if young enough to still have some separation anxiety.

Agree. This is a puppy. Most not all are created at night unless they are completely potty trained. Or, as many have suggested, the laundry room was the dogs normal nighttime spot.
I think the dog's activities are important because it's a window into knowledge of the house norms.
And who or how would know enough of that info? Pre casing? Stalking? Not a stranger? Pure luck? A serial killer with dog treats and experience with calming dogs?