ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 28

[The Observer]

Presuming they have one, yes. But as was mentioned before, it is not generally used at this juncture. I hate to even think about this case becoming cold.

BBM. Did you hear retired FBI agent Bobby Chacon on News Nation? I liked what he had to say re: case going cold. He was level headed and didn't pretend to know things like other experts.
News Nation

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

“The use of sharp objects tends to be correlated with the offenders knowing their victims,” Melanie-Angela Neuilly, chair of the criminal justice and criminology department at Washington State University, said. “And having a closer relationship with their victims than (using) a gun, for instance.” A month later, investigators and experts agree UI homicide case is far from cold

And then there're no tell-tale gunshots echoing through the darkness.

Why else might a knife have been the weapon of choice? Could it be that the perpetrator took that weapon as a means of intimidation only, and that the murders were unplanned?

Or is at as simple as he had no access to a gun?

Personally, that's what I suspect. He may have even been banned or declined from gun ownership?

I live in the UK and here we aren't allowed hand guns with some exceptions for hunting and land management, I wouldn't know much about.

However, what's the likelihood of a youngish person having their own gun or being able to acquire one? Shooting everyone would have been a much easier way of enacting rage but it would leave behind bullets that would possibly be a greater form of evidence that nothing but stab wounds. Would the perp even be thinking along those lines?

 

[layer]

BBM. Did you hear retired FBI agent Bobby Chacon on News Nation? I liked what he had to say re: case going cold. He was level headed and didn't pretend to know things like other experts.
News Nation

No, hadn't seen that. Very refreshing interview. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jawds78]

I think the perp didn't know they were there. I think he targeted the 3rd floor girls (one or both) and then encountered the 2nd floor couple and needed to remove them as witnesses.

I said this somewhere else. I also think he was recognized due to where one was found compared to the other. Doorway of room and Then inside by wall, didn't need to do that if unrecognized, could just keep going out. Just a theory as none of us have every detail. MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Here's a theory that I have been tossing around. So let's assume that Kaylee was the target. She arrives back in Moscow to show off her car to her friends. The person or persons that have an issue with her see that she is back and decide that this may be their last opportunity to get to her. So they follow her when she and Maddie go out. Once the girls get home they watch the house and wait until it's quiet and go into the house through the sliding door on the 2nd floor. They go up to the 3rd floor and find that K and M are asleep in the same room. At this point they feel they have reached the point of no return and murder both K and M. Meanwhile on the 2nd floor either Ethan or Xana or both are awoken by the noise upstairs, or maybe the dog heard something and started barking. As the the Killer or Killers came down the stairs to leave the house they run into E or X who are up investigating the noise. Maybe E and X can identify them so the murder them. They leave the house the same way they came in.

Again just a theory and this assumes that Kaylee was the target and the that Killer or Killer's knew the layout and where the victims slept.

I'm not saying Kaylee is the target but this process is pretty much what I've been thinking. People wonder why the 1st floor residents were not murdered but it could be as simple as - came in the 2nd floor in a murderous rage, went up to the 3rd floor to 'get' whomsoever they believed was up there, did what they did, needed to go back downstairs to leave the way they came, heard people on the 2nd floor moving around making noise having maybe woken or even just calling out - or - maybe someone on the 3 floor had let out screams or maybe the dog had started barking. So they were worried any 2nd floor occupants may be able to identify them or even confront and prevent them leaving and they dealt with that accordingly. People usually leave the way they came in.

Why would anyone even a murderous psychopath take the risk of descending to a lower floor again (the first floor) probably not knowing for certain who is down there, what they will find, whether they'd be ambushed, and no idea if they'd be able to exit or go back up to the 2nd floor to exit without some form of alarm having been raised. That would make no sense. All they would want to do is get out fast and undetected. Seems they did.

The point to take from that is that the perpetrated wanted and needed to go up to the third floor for some reason and did NOT want to or need to go down to the 1st floor. They had achieved their goal on the 3rd and 2nd floors then left. They did not think the person or persons they were wanting to harm were downstairs for whatever reasons, prior knowledge, watching the house, or simply being unaware there were sleeping areas down on the 1st floor.

JMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

“The use of sharp objects tends to be correlated with the offenders knowing their victims,” Melanie-Angela Neuilly, chair of the criminal justice and criminology department at Washington State University, said. “And having a closer relationship with their victims than (using) a gun, for instance.” A month later, investigators and experts agree UI homicide case is far from cold

And then there're no tell-tale gunshots echoing through the darkness.

Why else might a knife have been the weapon of choice? Could it be that the perpetrator took that weapon as a means of intimidation only, and that the murders were unplanned?

Or is at as simple as he had no access to a gun?

It may be something the killer is very comfortable with and prizes. He could carry it around, lots do in more rural states.

 

[Hexe]

I think the perp didn't know they were there. I think he targeted the 3rd floor girls (one or both) and then encountered the 2nd floor couple and needed to remove them as witnesses.

From the Moscow PD page:

Autopsies were conducted on November 17th. The Latah County Coroner confirmed the identity of the four murdered individuals and their cause and manner of death as homicide by stabbing. The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times.

Bolded by me. How did the murderer encounter Ethan and Xana, if they were asleep when they were attacked?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The females are very small. Quite common for cowardice thrill killers.

This is the last time the group will be together. Its now or never!

This the killers opportune moment, but the window of time is tight.

1. The sun comes up in just over two hours.

2. The girls would not be in this house again next year

3. It was the weekend and this was it

This was a big gamble for the perpetrator, but this was the final opportune moment to carry out the attack. Kaylee would not be back. It was graduation.

I totally agree. The ending of a relationship, as we all know here on WS, is the flashpoint for interpersonal violence and when most women are murdered by someone they were in some form of relationship with, statistically speaking.

The time pressure could have added a whole new dimension and may explain the perpetrator stepping up into the level of intensity needed to do this horrific crime.

What is remarkable / unusual thus far is usually that type of crime is easily and quickly detected due to the suddenness. If that is the case, I believe LE know *exactly* who has done this.

 

[layer]

Personally, that's what I suspect. He may have even been banned or declined from gun ownership?

I live in the UK and here we aren't allowed hand guns with some exceptions for hunting and land management, I wouldn't know much about.

However, what's the likelihood of a youngish person having their own gun or being able to acquire one? Shooting everyone would have been a much easier way of enacting rage but it would leave behind bullets that would possibly be a greater form of evidence that nothing but stab wounds. Would the perp even be thinking along those lines?

I disagree.

I think the main reason a knife was used was stealth. Gunfire, especially indoors, is loud. Really loud. Everybody inside that house would have been jarred wide awake by the first gunshot. The neighbors would likely also have heard the gunfire, called 911, and some might have even looked outside their windows. As it is, nobody heard anything. The neighbors remained asleep. The surviving roommates remained asleep. 911 wasn't called until some 8-9 hours later.

Stealth, not just regarding the choice of weapon, seems to be a large part of this killer's MO. Again, nobody saw or heard anything.

JMHO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

From the Moscow PD page:



Bolded by me. How did the murderer encounter Ethan and Xana, if they were asleep when they were attacked?

Well... went in their rooms one by one in turn is how I've always been viewing it? JMO

Suffice to say had achieved end goal on levels 2 and 3 then left.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I disagree.

I think the main reason a knife was used was stealth. Gunfire, especially indoors, is loud. Really loud. Everybody inside that house would have been jarred wide awake by the first gunshot. The neighbors would likely also have heard the gunfire, called 911, and some might have even looked outside their windows. As it is, nobody heard anything. The neighbors remained asleep. The surviving roommates remained asleep. 911 wasn't called until some 8-9 hours later.

Stealth, not just regarding the choice of weapon, seems to be a large part of this killer's MO. Again, nobody saw or heard anything.

I agree. Stealth is the defining word for this crime and a confident knife handler.

That's why I believe the perpetrator will also be very physically fit and have a lot of experience of hunting with knives and is someone with some form of physical skills such as Parkour or ballet dancing or acrobatics or martial arts. Light on their feet and very confident with their body skills, quick reactions, and very used to handling knives to kill things.

 

[OldCop]

Question for any former LE on this page or anyone with experience or knowledge of how the agencies work together on high profile cases like this.

When FBI and or FBI behavioral analyst are working with local PD/LE on a case of this magnitude……

Do they also assist in the weekly press release / formal updates local LE makes to the public?

Do they advise on what information to withhold and release to the public?

Do they review it before it is released to the media/public?

Usually yes, to all of the above.

 

[Hexe]

Well... went in their rooms one by one in turn is how I've always been viewing it? JMO

Suffice to say had achieved end goal on levels 2 and 3 then left.

But you said he killed them because they were witnesses. They witnessed nothing if they were asleep.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

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Please review the links below this post for guidelines.

 

[10ofRods]

I just wanted to say that K's dad never said her injuries were "more brutal." If he did say that, I can't find it anywhere.
What he did say is that K's injuries "didn't match" M's injuries and that perhaps his daughter fought back (coroner mentions defensive wounds only on X). I can think of lots of reasons why K and M's injuries wouldn't "match."

Assuming K is the target is a big stretch, IMO and purely speculation.

 

[mendicant]

I just wanted to say that K's dad never said her injuries were "more brutal." If he did say that, I can't find it anywhere.
What he did say is that K's injuries "didn't match" M's injuries and that perhaps his daughter fought back (coroner mentions defensive wounds only on X). I can think of lots of reasons why K and M's injuries wouldn't "match."

Assuming K is the target is a big stretch, IMO and purely speculation.

Yes, that language ("significantly more brutal") occurs in NewsNation's Brian Entin's report last week:

Kaylee Goncalves stabbing "more brutal" than other Idaho murders—report

Police have said they believe the murders of four University of Idaho students was a "targeted" attack.

www.newsweek.com

 

[layer]

I just wanted to say that K's dad never said her injuries were "more brutal." If he did say that, I can't find it anywhere.
What he did say is that K's injuries "didn't match" M's injuries and that perhaps his daughter fought back (coroner mentions defensive wounds only on X). I can think of lots of reasons why K and M's injuries wouldn't "match."

Assuming K is the target is a big stretch, IMO and purely speculation.

Entin reported it, I personally have seen no source for their reporting.

 

[Dexter12]

Is there a presser today!

 

[Schlep16]

*sbm*

Even the kid in the Jayme Closs case had the sense to shave his head though.

moo.

*edited simply to correct spelling of Jayme’s surname*

I keep thinking of that case and how LEO likely never would’ve identified JP. I really hope that this case doesn’t go that way. So obscure.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, that language ("significantly more brutal") occurs in NewsNation's Brian Entin's report last week:

Kaylee Goncalves stabbing "more brutal" than other Idaho murders—report

Police have said they believe the murders of four University of Idaho students was a "targeted" attack.

www.newsweek.com

So, Entin spoke to Dad and that was his takeaway? I don't see an actual quote from SG, either.

Sigh. So far, we have no LE confirmation of such a fact (indeed, they walked back their idea that one person was targeted to "house was targeted"). It's troubling that News Nation/Entin do not provide a source for this "confirmed" fact. Very troubling to anyone who likes traditional journalism.

"More brutal" as assessed by a parent viewing two bodies is difficult to assess. In each pair of victims, I'd expect that one died first (and had fewer injuries, perhaps, than the other). Second person might get more injuries simply due to being second. A key factor would be which injuries were fatal (and when). If the perp had to reach across a bed (for example), then that could explain why one victim was not killed as instantaneously as the other. I keep in mind that one of the earliest things SG said was "they didn't suffer." I now wonder where he's getting all this - and I totally get *why* he's saying these things, as he desperately needs to understand what happened and is providing his own, much-deserved narrative. No shade on SG, just a simple reminder that SG is likely not the best source for Entin to be using for such broad statements.

SG has no way of comparing K and M's injuries to those of X and E, either.

And thanks, Mendicant and Layer, for providing that link. Apparently Entin's announcement has not been picked up by the local press or any other MSM outlets.