ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 28

[Mad Hettie]

Me too. And it's chilling to hear from SG that K suffered wounds that meet certain "pro's and con's" according to those instructions. I do wonder if LE can speak to the owner of that website to see if they can provide data about incoming hits (and then look at the ones that are from the Moscow area first).

Probably not, probably way too big a reach for that to happen.



Good to know. I live on the West Coast (I actually live 5 miles from the ocean). So, such places are scarce here. The place in Moscow does not, to my knowledge, serve beer - but it appears they allow people to order takeout from anywhere else and rules don't say they ban alcohol.

Can you say how long these bars have been open, more or less? I just checked - Los Angeles County and Orange County do allow them, with LA having a few (not many, considering how many people live here).

I am not in any way saying that areas that have axe throwing clubs are more likely to produce murderers who use knives, just that if the issue is appearing confident with a knife, walking around with a sheathed knife, etc., these places would be good places to start.

The first one I noticed in our area showed up two years ago. It's in a well-lit place and looks like a nice establishment, for the most part.
Just the other day I drove by one that's hidden away in the back of an old strip mall and is attached to one of those gambling arcades that only operate in the middle of the night. Definitely felt a little more sketchy.

 

[SuziQ]

Clearly he's frustrated and I imagine a lot of us would feel that same way if we were in this situation. To me the really sad thing is that we learn more from him than we do LE.

We are not entitled to any of the investigative information. And for good reason. Imo

 

[Emerald1328]

Certainly he could view Kaylee's body, but not MM's.

I’m a doofus, I thought OP was talking about Kaylee’s body, not Maddie’s.

 

[Strong1]

Because LE wants/needs to keep some details from the public. Leaking to the media the girls' injuries does nothing to help find the killer.

Do you think LE is telling the families everything they know? I really doubt that.

 

[SRWCF]

The FBI was involved very early in this case. Are you saying you'd want to expand the FBI to do all local homicides? That would be an incredible change in recruitment and training (each FBI agent gets a *lot* of training - often coming from a prior LE background outside the bureau). There are wait lists for all this training and new agents are hard to find.

Are you saying every homicide should be investigated by the federal government?

At any rate, the Chief of Police in Moscow, ID has himself graduated the FBI academy and he called in the FBI right away. There are some 40+ FBI people on this case (about twice as many as the local LE staff) and some 15 US Marshals.

The number of steps involved in calling in and then responding to a homicide would prevent the FBI from arriving first. In this case, the roommates first called friends to try and open the doors of the non-responsive roommates. Then, 911 was called and LE/EMT's came. It was a shocking crime scene, certainly. But there's no evidence that local LE screwed up their initial response. And they are still holding the house as a crime scene.

You are absolutely correct. Attached is a screen shot from the Moscow Police Department's Nov. 18, 2022 homicide update. IMO, that's a huge amount of law enforcement to bring into a case that soon.

Here's the link where all PD updates can be found: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[human]

Certainly he could view Kaylee's body, but not MM's.

If the parents allowed it since Maddie was like a daughter, no way?

 

[scapa]

I suppose it's possible he's going just on the death certificates (although how he has standing to get M's would vary from locale to locale - can't be done in my state).

That's why I take everything SG says with a large grain of salt - he is comparing wounds, but he is not a professional in studying wounds and it's entirely possible that he has only seen one body and only knows the extent of one set of wounds completely.

OTOH, I do believe he said he had two urns (K's and M's) at his house during one of his statements to News Nation. So it's possible that M's family allowed her body to be released to him and his chosen mortuary for final arrangements. So, perhaps he went down to the mortuary for viewing before cremation (many people would).

BBM.

I am a doc, but my path training and experience are different and far more limited than a trained ME. Any examination of an injured person I might make would be geared to diagnosis / treatment and not evidence gathering, and while I might ask a different set of questions of an ME than a strict layperson, I not presume to explain fatal wounds in anything but the most elementary manner to an audience based on a cursory examination and analysis of a death certificate.

In addition, I would not do so comparatively, and I'd approach a death certificate -- much less detailed than an autopsy report -- with significant caution as a means of ascertaining the investigative truth of a case. A DC is a conclusion or even best guess of CoD based on available facts at the time, in these cases likely immediate rather than underlying. It can be useful but it's a sketch rather than a full portrait.

I can (literally) feel SG's pain through his interviews. I would not necessarily take his word as an expert on anything beyond his knowledge of and obvious love for his daughter and MM, and I would encourage him to resist further interviews.

 

[SpicyFruit]

I am not sure where the idea Kaylee's dad saw Maddie's body stems from. He could have seen Kaylee's body, sure, she is his own daughter. But nobody would be displaying an undressed corpse to a person not related to the deceased and not being a LE member. Especially not in such a medial case, where the probability of it being revealed is so high. The person responsible would be risking their job.

The two families are extremely close. I wonder if he could have been allowed if say the Father or Mother said "this is family." or even given consent? If not, I would think they just verbally or physically shared information given by a private autopsy or from the funeral director. But I think someone in here mentioned even a private autopsy might not be shared because it is an active crime. I don't know the rules around that one.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Does anyone else think that the person responsible was already inside the home when they returned that night? Someone mentioned there being no signs of forced entry, but I've also seen people talk about how "safe" this town was and that people regularly left their doors unlocked. I agree that the person was probably familiar with the layout of the home so they may also know if they leave their doors unlocked. I really hate this notion that in all of these horrific crimes we hear about that the town "was so safe" and all of that. A town may be safe statistically on paper but that doesn't mean that a sadistic killer isn't lying in wait. Take Abby & Libby's case for example. The killer was the sole pharmacist in their town and someone that most people probably knew. This is in no way victim shaming and it is awful that we are forced to live in constant fear but I'm just tired of this "it was such a safe town" crap when every other horrific crime happens in a "safe, small town, where everyone knows everyone." Anyways, this is just my current thought.

I have thought that the person responsible was already inside. Perhaps they came in at a more opportune moment-- door left ajar for the dog, someone not paying attention, whatever- and waited, rather than to have to somehow follow someone inside. I have also thought that maybe the killer accompanied one of the roommates inside that night on some pretext; maybe another student asking to borrow a textbook, money, whatever. MOO

 

[crimesnooper]

Absolutely! It makes me feel really uneasy and a bit suspicious when I read articles and watch videos of family members. A former homicide detective said that constantly being before a throng of cameras can become intoxicating for some people and be seen as downright peculiar.

It's been my experience that people who have a propensity for attention seeking behavior, drawn to knee jerk reactions and the need to self focus often haz those personality characteristics exacerbated under and during times of high stress.
The same is often true of those who are more reticent...they become more so under stress.
What I do find interesting is if one were to step back this case in general seems to always be the " Kaylee" case. The other three victims seem to get lost.

 

[SuziQ]

Maybe he read her autopsy that Maddie’s family shared with him? Idk

LE would not share the autopsy with family at this stage. It is part of an active investigation. Imo.

 

[Schlep16]

Would you or anyone else hear with a legal background know if a judge could throw out certain crime scene photos at trial due to descriptions of the victims wounds having already been released to the press?

Attorney here (not giving legal advice, of course); I would not expect a judge to throw out crime scene photos at trial due to media release. Sharing too many details can compromise an investigation, though!

 

[SpicyFruit]

Do you think LE is telling the families everything they know? I doubt that.

LE might think it was someone close to the victims, so keeping information from the family makes a lot of sense, unfortunately. What if it was a brother or a cousin, and they give info to Dad who accidentally tells his sister who tells another relative?

So I agree with you. It sucks for the family, but it sort of makes sense.

 

[Strong1]

We are not entitled to any of the investigative information. And for good reason. Imo

I understand that we are not entitled to any investigative information, nor should we be. All I was saying was that he has a right to say whatever he likes. We may not agree with it, we may feel that it is wrong, but in the end it was his daughter that was murdered and if wants to say something regarding her he has that right.

 

[SuziQ]

Do you think LE is telling the families everything they know? I really doubt that.

No. LE is not telling the families everything they know. In an active investigation, the families have no right to that information. Imo

 

[calmdownjudy]

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

www.foxnews.com

One thing that really stood out to me in this article:

"Kernodle, who had defensive wounds, and Chapin were found on the second floor of 1122 King Road. "It was a hell of a battle going on down there from what the coroner told us," Goncalves said."

To me, that says that K&M were attacked first. E&X went to check and a fight ensued OR the killer knocked on the locked bedroom door, forcing E&X to wake up and open the door.

 

[PrairieWind]

Wouldn’t he be able to view her full body at the funeral home? I cannot imagine a next of kin would not be able to view the full body of the deceased. What law is there that would prevent that?

It is unfortunate that we allow small local sheriff and police depts. to investigates homicides just because the crime occurred in that area. It leads to mistakes in almost every case I have followed. Some murders are never solved because of mistakes and missteps by LE that have never handled a homicide before. IMO a more uniform and effective approach would be a Federal agency that only investigates homicides . I am sure most victims family would agree, as well as most small town LE agencies.

I couldn't disagree more.

Do you think LE is telling the families everything they know? I really doubt that.

Of course not, and that is why the father is angry. But I guaranty that they are telling him even less now.

 

[SuziQ]

I understand that we are not entitled to any investigative information, nor should we be. All I was saying was that he has a right to say whatever he likes. We may not agree with it, we may feel that it is wrong, but in the end it was his daughter that was murdered and if wants to say something regarding her he has that right.

It's a free country and he can say whatever he wants. But what good is it going to do? Imo. What good does it do to release info only the killer might know? When LE interviews a suspect he might slip up and say something ok only LE knows. Then they know they have their guy. Imo.

 

[human]

I have thought that the person responsible was already inside. Perhaps they came in at a more opportune moment-- door left ajar for the dog, someone not paying attention, whatever- and waited, rather than to have to somehow follow someone inside. I have also thought that maybe the killer accompanied one of the roommates inside that night on some pretext; maybe another student asking to borrow a textbook, money, whatever. MOO

I have thought that also, but why did he not kill the first ones home? They seemed like they were home at least over an hour before the others arrived.

Did he go in earlier because he knew the code and left the slider open?

The code door makes a whirring sound when unlocked and locked to let you know it is working. It is distinctive,

Also, if you don’t open the door at the right time, you have to enter the code again as it does not unlock. I have this kind of lock and with many failures, have learned to listen for the right moment to release the door handle and unlock the door.

As far as the open front door. if I don’t pull my door shut enough, it does not close all the way and will come open.If someone is in a hurry, I can see why they would not close the door enough.

Did he go downstairs to finish the job? Was Ethan not injured enough and he got up and the killer heard a noise upstairs?

Going out the front door seems really risky .

 

[Celt1997]

I understand that we are not entitled to any investigative information, nor should we be. All I was saying was that he has a right to say whatever he likes. We may not agree with it, we may feel that it is wrong, but in the end it was his daughter that was murdered and if wants to say something regarding her he has that right.

I agree with what you have said here. He has every right to try and get information through legal means, and to grieve how he sees fit
.
IMO, though, he crosses the line when he chastises and derides LE. LE, mind you, that for a month has put forth a large amount of resources (manpower and otherwise) to help get him the information he desires.

To see all of the resources listed at the end of every press release and to then call them "cowards" or imply that they are unable to conduct a proper investigation is gross.