ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

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I hadn't heard of that - what's the source for it? The slider is on the second floor, opens onto the kitchen. I know that LE said they think he came in that way - but I hadn't heard there was an almost full palm print.

Anyone? Anyone got that link?
 
I have been wondering since the information was released that the victims were "sleeping", how that could possibly be determined. Another websleuth poster pointed out that Apple watches can track sleep-- but then in that case, if all 4 victims were described as "sleeping" each would have had to have an Apple watch on, correct? One might assume that the victims were sleeping because of the late hour, or the alcohol consumption, but in reality just because people were found in bed it doesn't necessarily mean that they were asleep. MOO
Lack of defensive wounds could help determine if they were sleeping. Although I learned in an earlier thread that they could have defensive wounds & still have been sleeping.

MOO
 
No disagreement here, but schizophrenia typically manifests in men in their mid to late 20s. Woman a little later, if I recall correctly.

I am not saying that men in their late teens/early 20s aren't developmentally capable of mass murder. I am saying that they aren't developmentally capable of this kind of mass murder.

My opinion.
Men in their early 20s are capable of this type of mass murder (see link in original comment) quickly using a knife on one victim after the other until they are mortally wounded, then fleeing the scene.
 
You know how cautious LE can be. The exact phrasing used was "likely sleeping when they were attacked", if that helps.
I agree. The word likely is the key. They may assume that since the victims were found in bed and didn't have defensive wounds, that would lead LE to believe they were asleep when attacked. But there was mention of defensive wounds on at least one of the victims? So apparently that victim was awake?
 
I agree. The word likely is the key. They may assume that since the victims were found in bed and didn't have defensive wounds, that would lead LE to believe they were asleep when attacked. But there was mention of defensive wounds on at least one of the victims? So apparently that victim was awake?
Defensive wounds can come while someone is alive, but unable to call out, and already mortally wounded.

The possibility is there someone was attacked while sleeping and still tried to block a knife thrust.

Just saying.

MOO
 
It would have been much different. Bullets as opposed to a knife. Silencer. In and out as this one was, but using the knife is messy and can lead to much more risk than using a gun. MOO

Maybe. Most guns eject cartridges, which must then be picked up. In the dark. I believe this perp came in after the house was darkened and didn't want flash and light (visible not only from apartments nearby - but possibly from one or two windows of the Sigma Chi frat house).

If the perp is caught any time soon, gunpowder residue is detectable for at least a couple of days.

Noise wakes up the other intended victims.

Silencers do not completely silence - would be audible from upstairs or downstairs, IMO.

This killer was very attached to his knife as a weapon and knew its limitations and what to guard for. A bullet can easily get stuck inside of a person and be traced back to any eventual gun found (so the gun would need to be disposed of - I get the feeling this person was attached to their weapon). Was comfortable with the knife, IOW.

Guns are messy too, is my point. They also splatter, etc. It's true that it could have been more risky with a knife - but so far, doesn't seem so.
 
What baffles me most is that someone could slaughter 4 pepole and not leave any blood trail while leaving……we don’t see any markings by police outside. No indication that they even identified one drop of blood anywhere. Not one site marked for identification. it doesn’t seem possible. Not even outside the sliding door where I am assuming the killer escaped, or the 3rd floor porch if he/she leaped out on the hill to head for Walenta Drive.

How does one do that?
There have been a handful of photos released by various media of police placing evidence markers outside. Here is an article that shows at least one evidence marker being placed outside and photos being taken of the ground.

I know there have been more, just having trouble finding them with so, so much coverage over the last month. IMO there was a trail, but not an obvious one.
 
First breaks tend to be earlier in men -- 18-20. Women tend to be diagnosed a bit later.


Gotcha thanks. First psychotic breaks are typically on the milder side by comparison but terrifying (of course) from what I've seen, and functioning is only mildly impaired. Early breaks are also generally successfully controlled with meds until symptoms begin to intensify and persist in the mid to late 20s.

There is also research to suggest psychoactives like THC can usher in early full blown onset if predisposed. I suppose that might just apply to a bunch of college kids. :)

Oh, just saw you are a neuroscientist, so I'm not saying anything you don't already know (and surely far more!)
 
Thank you Otto but I think you missed the spirit of my post. I understand the prosecutor’s account was a “miscommunication”. The spirit of my post was to try to give context to the targeted occupants vs targeted residence thread that LE has been steadfast about. I was just pondering whether IF they had seen in a neighbor’s security cam that a certain car had driven by over and over, slowed down by the house, stopped, etc… could that, in theory, be enough evidence for LE to firmly believe it was a targeted attack? It would certainly make the occupants vs residence statements make a little more sense IMO.

I’m not splitting hairs though Otto. I appreciate you taking the time to post and link for clarification. I don’t dispute that PD made it clear the prosecutor was miscommunicating. They didn’t specifically roll back the comment about “suspect(s) specifically looked at the residence” though, so maybe I AM splitting hairs lol. IMO they seem to really just roll back the prosecutor’s notion that it was the occupants (as opposed to the residence) that were “undoubtedly” targeted. Here’s their press release when they updated about the miscommunication. It was released on the “Wednesday” noted in the CNN article you cited.

Obviously I don’t know anything about anything. I’m just pondering that there’s likely some type of hard evidence that is leading them to believe it was a targeted crime. All just my opinion.
Thanks! Quite true ... police have said the murders were targeted, but have not said whether the residence, or an individual at the residence, is the target.

The most likely reason police would say that it was targeted is because one victim had more severe injuries than the others. Police have not said why they believe it is targeted. Perhaps, to avoid speculation about which victim had more severe injuries, police have added that the residence might be the target.

For example, it's easy to sit on the hill behind the house and see directly into the third floor bedrooms at the back of the house. Perhaps someone realized how easy it was to see into the bedrooms, spent some times there, and developed a strange idea about murder. That is, someone looking for break-in vulnerability found that residence, and took a desire to kill to the next step. Why are the two victims on the first floor alive? Killer might not have known they were there.
 
TRANSCRIPT.

CAPTAIN GIVES BRIEF UPDATE

12TH DECEMBER.

Captain - Good morning, my name's Roger Lanier. I'm the Captain with the Moscow Police Department. I'm in charge of the Operations Division. And today is Dec. 12th, Monday. I want to give you an update on the King Rd. homicide investigations, at least the information that we have to this point. Over the weekend, investigators still continued to sort through numerous tips, calls and online tips in regard to this investigation.

There's been a lot of questions about the white car that we've been interested in. We're looking for that car because we believe, through our investigation, that that car was in the area during the time of the murders and we also believe that the occupant or occupants may have seen something. They may not know they've seen something. So, we specifically want to talk to them and we want to know who they are and what they might know or might be able to contribute to the investigation.

Over the weekend, investigators have sorted through and prioritised numerous tips. Some are tips that came in earlier and we've been working on. Other tips are new and are relevant. It's overwhelming sometimes with the amount of information that comes in on these tip lines. So, our analysts have spent hours sorting through and trying to come up with the most relevant tips first for the investigators to follow up on. They have re-interviewed some of the folks we've interviewed earlier in this investigation to clarify information. Sometimes when new information comes forward, the people that we've spoken to beforehand may have new insight on that. So, it does often seem like we're backtracking but we're really just trying to get the most important details and the best timeline that we can come up with.

We have literally an army of analysts who have been sorting through videos that have been submitted through the fbi.gov.moscow upload site. Those videos are from all over town, gas stations and specifically the area around King Rd. We've been trying to use those videos to garner new information. As you can imagine, there's hours and hours and hours of videos, so it does take a lot of time.

I want to talk a minute about safety. There's been a lot of speculation about what is the safety to the public right now or the risk to the public right now. I would just like to add that we should always be vigilant. Certainly we should be vigilant now, but we should make that a way of life for us. We should always be walking with our head up, sticking to lighted paths and walking in groups, if we can. In addition, letting people know when you've arrived home if you have not made prior arrangements. This is not an indication of a specific elevated risk, but something that we should be vigilant with just in our daily lives.

I want let everybody know that we are still 100% committed to solving this crime. There's a lot of information to sort through and the information keeps coming in and not all of the information is relevant. But you don't know if a tip is valid until you take the time to examine that tip and see how it relates to other information that you might have. We have teams in Moscow, Salt Lake City and in Virginia, as well as other locations across the country and we're prepared to do interviews and follow up on information at any point, anywhere. The ISP and FBI investigators along with the Moscow Police Department investigators, includes dozens of analysts, tip line operators and others. And they're working around the clock, seven days a week, to sort through the volumes of information. MPD has detectives, support personnel and a communications team to try to keep everything together, but it is still a daunting task. The FBI, their investigators, are ready at a moments notice at any place in the country to go conduct an interview should the tips and leads take us there. And, the Idaho State Police has, besides working on the investigation, had several uniformed troopers in the area to help with safety concerns around the city and on the University of Idaho campus.

Just a quick reminder. Please stick to official news releases for information. Tracking down rumours and quelling rumours about specific individuals or specific events that may or may not have happened is a huge distraction for investigators and oftentimes is the result of social media propagation and it is very, very frustrating to investigators and hard to stay on track.

Finally I just want to add that we do have a lot of information and we are specifically keeping that information safe. We're not releasing specific details because we do not want to compromise this investigation. It's what we must do. We owe that to the families and we owe that to the victims. We want more than just an arrest. We want a conviction. We owe that justice to Xana, Kaylee, Madison and Ethan.

And finally, I would just like remind anybody with information - you can call the tip line at 208-883-7180 and that is directly to the tip line office in the FBI. There's been some frustration about having to wade through the tip line, but remember this is not the only investigation in the country. So, please be patient. We want that information. Anything could break this open for us and then also the e-mail tip line is tipline@CI.moscow.ID.US. Thank you for your continued patience in this investigation.
Thank you.
 
Husband and I were discussing today , how if you knew somebody in that area,that drove a white Elantra , that year and model, wouldnt you sort of question if they had something to do with it? Even if it seemed totally farfetched for that person , the thought would cross my mind.
I believe eventually someone is going to crack about the car, if they havent already.
 
But she didn’t correct her earlier comment that they were likely sleeping… Very unpopular opinion: I think this meant K wasn’t in her bed - she was in M’s bed.

MOO


We know K and M were in the same bed.

"And in the end, they died together, in the same room, in the same bed. And it's a shame, and it hurts. But the beauty of the two always being together is something that will – it comforts us, it lets us know that they were with their best friends in the whole world."
 
Husband and I were discussing today , how if you knew somebody in that area,that drove a white Elantra , that year and model, wouldnt you sort of question if they had something to do with it? Even if it seemed totally farfetched for that person , the thought would cross my mind.
I believe eventually someone is going to crack about the car, if they havent already.
Absolutely. I am very surprised that an acquaintance, a neighbor, an enemy hasn’t dropped a dime.
 
This is all my own opinion and thoughts and I hope this is allowed…

My mind keeps going to the Cassie Jo Stoddart ‘Scream Murders’. Obviously not like-for-like, but I’m starting to lean towards 1-2 male perps.

In the Stoddart case the 2 boys/men involved had a list of ‘targets’ on their kill list.They targeted Stoddart (and attempted to target her boyfriend as well that night) purely because it was an easy opportunity for them with her house sitting home alone.

Could it be that 1-2 killers targeted that residence as they knew who was home that night after either being with them throughout the evening or stalking the house? Given it was usually a party house it seems like the fact it was quiet that night gave them the opportunity. In my random theory, I can see 2 perps egging each other on. I also can imagine that style knife being a prized possession to someone obsessed with killing or wanting to kill. I hesitate to go as far as a SK, I’m thinking more loser acquaintance/s who wanted to kill for the first time.

IMO the info LE have released about the Hyundai tells me they’re fairly certain from CCTV that there is more than 1 person in that car and that it ‘stalked’ the house in the days prior. The LE use of the word ‘residence’ in relation to it being targeted also makes me suspect a theory where they were young males, loosely known to the victims who had an obsession with killing and finally struck upon the ‘perfect’ opportunity to follow through with their sick fantasy given the house was quiet.

There is so much debate about the motive behind this and the specific target, but what if the motive was nothing more than he/they wanted to kill and the opportunity presented itself that night?

All my own opinion.
 
Men in their early 20s are capable of this type of mass murder (see link in original comment) quickly using a knife on one victim after the other until they are mortally wounded, then fleeing the scene.

Indeed. I agree that folks in their early 20s can commit knife mass murders of their peers. Your link certainly illustrates that. I don't, however, believe that someone in their early 20s can meticulously plan and execute something as sadistic and depraved as this. It takes a lot of years to build up that kind of convolution and those kinds of grievances.

My opinion.
 
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