ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[accordn2me]

I was just thinking, if it turns out to be the case where K was hurt the worst, maybe that’s partly because she was trying to protect M.

It could just be the differences in the makeup of their bodies.

From an article posted in the last thread:

“Stab wounds are said by some authors to ‘gape open’ depending upon their anatomical location. Lines of tension in the skin are determined by the relative orientation of elastic and collagen fibres, and the cleavage lines of Langer correspond to body surface creases.

Cox (1941) reviewed, and 'mapped' (by making 22,600 puncture wounds in cadavers) the cleavage lines, and noted that it was Dupuytren who first observed (in 1834) that there was a disparity between the shape of an instrument and the shape of the skin wound produced by it. Wounds made with a conical instrument were linear, not circular, in shape and that the direction of these wounds differed in different parts of the body. The lines of cleavage, however, were first published by Langer in 1861.

It was postulated that the lines of cleavage were due to the intrinsic arrangement of collagen fibres in the skin - the majority running parallel to the long axis and the remainder interlacing. The orientation of these fibres was further investigated by Haut (1989), examining the tensile strength (and failure) of rat skin. The tensile failure (giving rise to lacerations) depended upon location, orientation, age and strain rate.”
Read more: https://forensicmed.webnode.page/wounds/sharp-force-trauma/stab-wounds/

 

[PolarButterflie]

Who in the heck goes ’running’ in the dark wearing denim jeans and shirts?

OMG this case is so crazy nothing adds up and I feel almost as if people know and aren’t saying.

JMO

It could have been inebriated college kids trying to avoid getting ticketed for underaged drinking...

 

[Lindadanette]

It's exceedingly rare for someone with schizophrenia to commit mass murder. It's even more exceedingly rare for someone with schizophrenia to be able to premeditate and execute a mass murder like this one where evidence implicating him doesn't seem to be have been left all over the crime scene. That's because someone with decompensated schizophrenia will often not have the organizational skills and executive function necessary to pull off a murder like this.

I was attacked by a person who was experiencing a psychotic break. I would have sworn to anyone that they wouldn't harm a fly. I was trying to distance myself from his increasingly erratic behaviors (voices) and later learned that he had gone off his meds. The person who attacked me had shark eyes and supernatural strength. There was no premeditated plan, just the voices in his head telling him to go to my house and attack me. I have no trouble imagining one male who was out of his mind with psychotic rage quietly entering a place he'd been to before and commiting the murders. It is a miracle that I am alive.

 

[10ofRods]

Husband and I were discussing today , how if you knew somebody in that area,that drove a white Elantra , that year and model, wouldnt you sort of question if they had something to do with it? Even if it seemed totally farfetched for that person , the thought would cross my mind.
I believe eventually someone is going to crack about the car, if they havent already.

Heck, I'm trying to take pictures of Elantras out here in California - regardless of year or plate, cuz I can't assess that fast enough.

I only saw 1 white-looking Elantra today, and it was properly registered, as far as I can tell. My real view is that if Moscow PD needs to know about a particular properly registered Elantra that's just minding its own business 1000 miles away, they can get those records from the California DMV.

If I lived anywhere in Idaho or eastern WA, I'd have been more diligent. I also read LE's instructions - they want us to call in if we know where the car was back in November.

It's exceedingly rare for someone with schizophrenia to commit mass murder. It's even more exceedingly rare for someone with schizophrenia to be able to premeditate and execute a mass murder like this one where evidence implicating him doesn't seem to be have been left all over the crime scene. That's because someone with decompensated schizophrenia will often not have the organizational skills and executive function necessary to pull off a murder like this.

Yes, it is exceedingly rare (and something my own mentor, Dr. Donald Lunde, pondered a great deal after studying serial killers in the Santa Cruz/SF Bay area - where both types existed). Multiple killings at one go by a schizophrenic are unusual (although, arguably, some schizophrenics have persuaded others to do so).

Not all schizophrenics are in a decompensated state when they commit crimes, but the ones who are could not possibly organize a crime like this one, IMO - so I totally agree with you.

I can't think of any schizophrenic mass murderers, only schizophrenic murderers (most of whom were not organized killers). If anyone knows of any schizophrenic mass murderers, please chime in!

 

[10ofRods]

I was attacked by a person who was experiencing a psychotic break. I would have sworn to anyone that they wouldn't harm a fly. I was trying to distance myself from his increasingly erratic behaviors (voices) and later learned that he had gone off his meds. The person who attacked me had shark eyes and supernatural strength. There was no premeditated plan, just the voices in his head telling him to go to my house and attack me. I have no trouble imagining one male who was out of his mind with psychotic rage quietly entering a place he'd been to before and exacting the murders. It is a miracle that I am alive.

I can imagine someone entering a house after being commanded by voices to do so. I have a hard time imagining the same person killing 4 different people with a knife and not leaving a trail of blood evidence (probably right to his house or usual dwelling place).

I feel that these murders were too carefully executed (waiting until lights out; watching from outside; departing quickly; using a weapon that requires exquisite coordination to land the wounds where intended, etc).

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Oh, I totally agree. I'm only saying that an introverted, planning sadist can ALSO be an incel, or a doctor, or a truck driver, or a lawyer, or a student or anyone else. These are not exclusive categories.

I do not think this is an impulsive rage killer, exactly (although again, you can have people who are great planners also fly off into rages - it's actually a scary personality blend, IMO).

I totally agree that this was planned - and my own word would be...meticulously planned. Researched on the internet. Telegraphed to others in only the most hidden ways - a challenge to people around him, "See who I am? You don't even look at me - you don't see who I am!"

Internalized, longstanding, lingering - YES. A grievance collector who decided that he was eventually going to lose it and commit some bloody crime - so he spent the last year or so planning it very well.

This argues for a long refractory period, as seen with other killers. Eventually (maybe), the rage will rise again - right now, he's just very concerned with executing this plan and not getting caught.

As to whether his quest had to do with the identity of the victims or not - I go back and forth.

You are describing (and I totally agree) a really disturbed and relatively rare individual. It's hard to believe that this rando rage sadist could be in the inner circle of the victims, but he's somewhere - lurking around some people, somewhere. He doesn't live in a tent. He has internet, I'm convinced of it. He stalked them online, most likely. It's possible he's from out of state - and that something in their profiles/backgrounds/follower base...caught his attention. When people permit strangers from around the nation to share in their Instagram world (esp if there are DM's), all of a sudden, many people are now involved with convos with...bad actors. Something either drew this killer to Moscow (if he didn't already live there) or he's a sadist crazy killer who is a local of some kind (not necessarily born there of course).

These days, there are a lot of people who think it's funny to flip people off or stand up to them verbally in public - people in general are less demure than in the past (MOO, but based on available research). The easily offended sadistic grievance collector is rare - but they are out there. This guy needs to be caught.

Not sure of whether we can discuss actual theories about a serial killer thoroughly at this point.

imo this is 100% spot on. I'm not an expert, but you are, and that you're seeing it this way validates lots of my own thoughts, and also scares the beejeebies out of me. Meticulously planned and IMO it was stalking via IG/tiktok. NOT victim blaming at all, but KG had 70k followers -- one of them could be very twisted and have the means to get to Moscow id to meet his dream date IMO. I can think of three locations for home where I would look if I were just spitballing.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

The body cam video that we’ve been talking about. Just that.

Was there a physical call? The video showed patrol officers just happening onto the college kids at Band Field is my understanding. The incident begins at approximately 2:54a and lasts until 3:15a.

The timeline has always seemed a little strange to me. Maybe I’m still stuck on law enforcement’s unwillingness (despite apparent evidence) to shift M+K’s arrival at 1122 to 1:56a though.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Heck, I'm trying to take pictures of Elantras out here in California - regardless of year or plate, cuz I can't assess that fast enough.

I only saw 1 white-looking Elantra today, and it was properly registered, as far as I can tell. My real view is that if Moscow PD needs to know about a particular properly registered Elantra that's just minding its own business 1000 miles away, they can get those records from the California DMV.

If I lived anywhere in Idaho or eastern WA, I'd have been more diligent. I also read LE's instructions - they want us to call in if we know where the car was back in November.



Yes, it is exceedingly rare (and something my own mentor, Dr. Donald Lunde, pondered a great deal after studying serial killers in the Santa Cruz/SF Bay area - where both types existed). Multiple killings at one go by a schizophrenic are unusual (although, arguably, some schizophrenics have persuaded others to do so).

Not all schizophrenics are in a decompensated state when they commit crimes, but the ones who are could not possibly organize a crime like this one, IMO - so I totally agree with you.

I can't think of any schizophrenic mass murderers, only schizophrenic murderers (most of whom were not organized killers). If anyone knows of any schizophrenic mass murderers, please chime in!

Exactly. Usually when someone with schizophrenia kills, it's an impulse thing, like (for example) shoving someone in front of a train. It isn't this planned out attack against multiple people that leaves no easily found (as far as we know) clue as to their identity.

 

[rahod1]

I have been wondering since the information was released that the victims were "sleeping", how that could possibly be determined. Another websleuth poster pointed out that Apple watches can track sleep-- but then in that case, if all 4 victims were described as "sleeping" each would have had to have an Apple watch on, correct? One might assume that the victims were sleeping because of the late hour, or the alcohol consumption, but in reality just because people were found in bed it doesn't necessarily mean that they were asleep. MOO

I think killer accessed that ALL were asleep before they made their move. This was central and key to the attack, almost insuring a kill with little or no resistance (no sounds to alert others in the house). MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

What baffles me most is that someone could slaughter 4 pepole and not leave any blood trail while leaving……we don’t see any markings by police outside. No indication that they even identified one drop of blood anywhere. Not one site marked for identification. it doesn’t seem possible. Not even outside the sliding door where I am assuming the killer escaped, or the 3rd floor porch if he/she leaped out on the hill to head for Walenta Drive.

How does one do that?

Killing the victims in their beds decreases the chance the killer tracked blood through the house as most of blood would likely seep into the bedding and mattresses. There would likely be blood cast off from the knife being thrust back and forth and blood spatter on walls and nearby items. If the killer had blood on his clothes or body he could have transferred it onto other objects, such as the sliding glass door. He may have cleaned off the knife at the scene.

LE said they collected about 112 pieces of evidence from the crime scene. Many of those items probably have blood on them.

I'm pretty sure there were evidence markers on the sliding glass door, so it's possible they did find blood there.

 

[drmrgrl]

Also the comments by her father re the wounds, would they have not been opened further during an autopsy for any dna or fibres/clues etc ?

IMO, if the killer had stabbed the roommates through the covers, it’s possible that the knife was hard to withdraw further enlarging the wounds

 

[marloweclover]

As far as the car owner/driver not coming forward, I live in the state, and the case is only getting minimal news coverage at this point in my city. IMO, it's entirely possible, maybe even probable, that someone living here (or anywhere except the immediate vicinity of Moscow, websleuths excluded) with that car hasn't even heard they're looking for it. My friends aren't talking about the case, it's not breakroom conversation at work, college students here aren't noticeably behaving differently.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

We need to know a lot more.

I’m starting to wonder if this crime scene wasn‘t badly interfered with or staged before LE arrived… maybe a frat thing ? Wanting to deal with this privately their own way? Could that happen?

I've known a number of frat boys in my time, and can't imagine it, just saying. IMO the killer may have done some staging we haven't heard about -- jmo -- and that's one reason for FBI BAU right away. just a guess.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I was attacked by a person who was experiencing a psychotic break. I would have sworn to anyone that they wouldn't harm a fly. I was trying to distance myself from his increasingly erratic behaviors (voices) and later learned that he had gone off his meds. The person who attacked me had shark eyes and supernatural strength. There was no premeditated plan, just the voices in his head telling him to go to my house and attack me. I have no trouble imagining one male who was out of his mind with psychotic rage quietly entering a place he'd been to before and commiting the murders. It is a miracle that I am alive.

I am sorry you were attacked. Truly, that must have been horrifying.

Think about what you said though. There was no premeditation. You were one person. For someone to commit multiple murders due to psychosis, in a situation like this, he would have to have organizational skills, the ability to think ahead, the ability to plan, and the ability to reality test in order to escape undetected. These things, in my professional experience, are not found in a person with decompensated schizophrenia. And if they aren't decompensating, then we can't blame the schizophrenia.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Was there a physical call? The video showed patrol officers just happening onto the college kids at Band Field is my understanding. The incident begins at approximately 2:54a and lasts until 3:15a.

The timeline has always seemed a little strange to me. Maybe I’m still stuck on law enforcement’s unwillingness (despite apparent evidence) to shift M+K’s arrival at 1122 to 1:56a though.

Yes, there was a 911 call made. They call it the 3:01 AM call but I think it was time stamped earlier on body cam.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I meant to say that the suspect could be in his/her early 20s. I would be surprised if the suspect is that young. This mass murderer seems like he/she might be someone who crossed paths with one of the tenants one day, who developed an unhealthy interest, and who retaliated against imagined wrongs. If this happened, it's unlikely that this is the first time the suspect has imagined being wronged by other people.

That's an interesting thought. It could be true. Either way though, that isn't schizophrenia or psychosis. It's just a disturbed individual.

 

[TIGER0822]

I think he had two targets, and they happened to be in two different rooms. He took the other two lives as they were in the way.

 

[drmrgrl]

I agree, at this stage LE have this on their site.

• We have not changed our belief that the murders were a targeted attack. However, investigators have not concluded if the target was the residence or its occupants. King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

So, IOW, it could have been a past resident that set something off

 

[vls12345]

Pages ago, someone asked for a link about the handprint on one of the windows...

Idaho murders: Handprint spotted next to evidence tape at house where four students were killed

At the Moscow, Idaho home where four University of Idaho students were killed, a hand print can be seen next to an evidence tape on the window of the King Road house.

www.foxnews.com

 

[10ofRods]

But she didn’t correct her earlier comment that they were likely sleeping… Very unpopular opinion: I think this meant K wasn’t in her bed - she was in M’s bed.

MOO

What are you trying to say? K had moved out. That means she didn't have a room or a bed at 1122 King Road, IMO. There are two "empty bedrooms" (one is K's former room).

It's been said by the father that they were in M's bed. It's been reported that way from the beginning. How is this an unpopular opinion?