ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 31

[otto]

If we rule out - K & M being followed home - because there is this car involved and is there 1 hour after they are home.

If we rule out someone staking out and waiting in street near by - again because the car came past 1 hour after K & M get home.

Could whoever was in the white car - have seen the messages between K & M to J and drove over in his place. I don't know if that is possible?? or dropped someone off at 1122 king??? MOO

I've wondered that too - about the timing of 6-7 text messages to an ex-boyfriend at the same time that a vehicle seems to be heading to the house to murder them - seems unusual. 3 AM messages to ex, car spotted at 2:45-3:15 heading to the murders - which is minutes away.

If the white vehicle is involved and the time stamps are correct, the car seems to be heading to the house roughly 45 minutes after the third floor tenants left the food trucks ... to go home, eat pasta and play mid-night phone tag. Maybe it would be interesting to look at the walking and travel time between the food trucks and the mass murder house.

That would give a radius of where the suspect might be ... based on the assumption that the killer knew that the girls picked up pasta after the pub. Was that a usual thing ... stop at the food trucks to load up on pasta after a night of drinking? I'm curious. If the girls typically walked from the pub to the food trucks before getting an uber home, someone not on film at the food trucks could have been expecting them?

 

[Arkay]

I get a weird vibe from this interview… not sure if it’s just this guy trying to get his 15 minutes or what. Seems strange that the girls would bring a stalker issue up to this essential stranger and odd that he brings up the Corner Club where it’s widely known they were that night. Anyone else?

What caught my attention was that he said it was 3 weeks before the murders, but then, in another quote, he said he was telling them all to have a happy Thanksgiving. Three weeks before the murders would have been BEFORE Halloween which seems too early to be wishing people a happy Thanksgiving.

Young - and actually even older - people often talk freely about themselves to clerks at businesses they frequent often. I know this because I own a business that has many return customers and they tell me a lot of personal info/stories. Plus I ask a lot of questions because it’s interesting and I care about my customers. I’m chatty. Just like this guy.
Perhaps LE could check this store’s video security if they have it - and being a vape store I would think they do - perhaps this ‘stalker’ may have followed her there to the vape store on one or more occasions?

Just from my experience as a woman, I cannot imagine these girls telling SUCH detail about a stalker to this store clerk.

Yes, the girls seemed vivacious and extroverted, from what we see, and I could MAYBE see them answering that they're in a group because one had a stalker.

However, this clerk went into great detail regarding said stalker, and it just feels off to me. At most I would think the girls would just say "we feel safer in a group" and leave it at that.

I agree about being friendly and chatty with clerks whom we see frequently, as @seemstome said, so I figured that perhaps they went there daily.
Once he said they've been there a total of 6 or 7 times, I felt like nope, that's not frequent enough to spill every minute detail about where and when there was a stalker.

Also I totally agree with @jcamh---they died mid-November, he claims he last saw them three weeks prior---he would've definitely said something about have a fun Halloween rather than leaping straight to Thanksgiving.

I agree with @las726 that the vibe is weird. I don't think he's a bad dude or a suspect and it could just be the 15 minutes of fame, wanting to feel that he has something important to add to the conversation or whatever, but it just, in my opinion, seems like an implausible scenario. Not impossible but unlikely.

Jmo

ETA: @seemstome Just wanted to add that I respect your owning a business. I would infer that to have achieved that, you are probably older than 21, but I don't know (and not my business, not asking for an answer) if you are a female or not. Just wanted to state that, in my own opinion and experience, if I were still young and wanted to pour my heart out to the store clerk about a stalker, I would ONLY do that, if I were going to talk about it at all, with a female. And one that I felt was trustworthy, such as one who owns a business I frequented.

Not EVER to a male clerk who appears to be about the same age.

That's just me, though; others may feel differently. I still just don't see it here.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

As I understand it, the car caught on gas station video is on highway 8 going towards the house at 3:45 as it turns left off of highway 8. A post back a few pages has a map showing the possible route of the car from highway 8, to the left turn that takes you up to Taylor.

The gas station car isn't a Hyundai Elantra in my opinion

 

[Aquarian]

Every county is different but here’s the government services offered to victims in Latah County.
City of Moscow Victim Assistance
Besides LE returning your possessions if they aren’t needed for the investigation, its focus is on assisting during trial when many victims are witnesses for the state.
There may be some private groups that offer more comprehensive assistance, like mental health counseling or support groups but I’ve only found that in Idaho for DV, SA and child abuse. Because the population is so small, if it exists, you probably need to go to a city like Boise. Jmo
Most people’s health insurance would cover counseling/therapy though, both private or government Medicaid/Medicare.

Thanks- interesting.

 

[TooMuchGun]

The gas station car isn't a Hyundai Elantra in my opinion

it looks like an Veloster but they share parts. Could be the speed distorted the car as it drove by

 

[LynnWhite]

One explanation, he thinks the people on the first floor heard something, and Cops will come via Taylor.

Opinion only

That’s a solid take IMO.

Also, the NBC Nightly News reporter said LE told her the vehicle description associated in this case was the result of multiple tips called into LE. I’m hoping this isn’t like the purple PT cruiser, ETC. in Abby’s and Libby’s case.

My point, I’m hoping this is a good lead, but not putting all my eggs in this basket if you know what I mean.

Snipped. I’ve had the same suspicions - a 10 year old white Hyundai Elantra is a pretty generic looking car, and if they’re basing it on eyewitness testimony from the middle of the night, my personal feeling is it could be any number of similar makes, models, and years.

 

[EBW321]

MOO/IMO….

Now I realize my lack of knowledge on who is and is not important to publicly clear is pretty much zero.

So this could mean nothing or it could mean something.. those of you who do have experience feel free to inform me of who would need to be publicly cleared vs. those who wouldn’t.

MOO:
if LE has confirmation of E and X at fraternity house all evening… people there confirming these encounters have undoubtedly been identified and listed as someone who was possibly the last to see them alive, know what was going on those last few hours….

Wouldn’t they need to be on the cleared list?

The guy who drove K&M home is..

The food truck guy, the guy in surveillance food truck video, all surviving roommates…

So why not have those to last see X & E alive on the cleared list?

Maybe they are simply unimportant because they didn’t see anything of importance. Possibly because there are so many who saw them leaving the party acting perfectly normal… if 10 people see 2 people leave a party acting completely normal…giving the exact same statements to LE… I don’t see a need to list all those people on a cleared list… clearly enough of them said the exact same things to lead LE to believe none of them were involved…

If that was the case.. wouldn’t a general statement that no one at the frat house or party are believed to be involved …. Be something they would add to the list?

It may help settle down some rumors flying around about X and E’s last few hours over the internet the last week.

My curiosity about why they wouldn’t reference anyone at the frat house as cleared, really came from the most recent case updates and press release wording:

“Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi
House on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred.”

The statement “add context to what occurred” really struck me.

Occurred meaning… something happened they know about and many others do not?

Occurred meaning…what they did at the house that night? Who they were around all night?

Occurred meaning… the killings ?

Occurred meaning… did you see anyone acting strange or x and e acting unusual?

For me personally… MOO… I think LE knows something, they are just looking for someone to confirm something they already know. For someone in the fraternity house that night to fill in that small gap/ tid bit of information that could be significant to catching who did this.

I’ve honestly never thought anyone at the fraternity party had anything to do with this… ever. It was too far fetched and I thought for sure if it was a college kid they’d have been caught by now.

Still feel that way…

But what if I’m wrong?

Still gets me though… with everyone cleared from the case… I do find it unusual that the police have not made statements on anyone at the fraternity house being cleared.

I doubt I’m not the only one curious if any of those people needed to be cleared of anything to begin with. (Like I said previously I’m very doubtful anyone in the frat did this)… VERY

So… does LE have info on someone nearby or someone who attended the party that others may have reported in their statements as odd. Maybe the LE has received or has evidenced already of someone at the party either seeing someone or something out of place or unusual that night.

It’s a Fraternity party, I doubt they have a guest list at the door of who can and cannot come in.

But it’s also doubtful someone out of place wouldn’t also standout to someone.

MOO…. The request for more info tells me they know what they are looking for, have solid evidence and information pointing them back to the house. Just need someone to corroborate it and fill in some small gap or bit of information they are missing.

As in… they may have seen something or someone they didn’t know was valuable to the case. Something or someone the LE knows the public does not.

Just strange. Possibly wayyyyy overthinking it.

Interested to hear others thoughts.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

Just from my experience as a woman, I cannot imagine these girls telling SUCH detail about a stalker to this store clerk.

Yes, the girls seemed vivacious and extroverted, from what we see, and I could MAYBE see them answering that they're in a group because one had a stalker.

However, this clerk went into great detail regarding said stalker, and it just feels off to me. At most I would think the girls would just say "we feel safer in a group" and leave it at that.

I agree about being friendly and chatty with clerks whom we see frequently, as @seemstome said, so I figured that perhaps they went there daily.
Once he said they've been there a total of 6 or 7 times, I felt like nope, that's not frequent enough to spill every minute detail about where and when there was a stalker.

Also I totally agree with @jcamh---they died mid-November, he claims he last saw them three weeks prior---he would've definitely said something about have a fun Halloween rather than leaping straight to Thanksgiving.

I agree with @las726 that the vibe is weird. I don't think he's a bad dude or a suspect and it could just be the 15 minutes of fame, wanting to feel that he has something important to add to the conversation or whatever, but it just, in my opinion, seems like an implausible scenario. Not impossible but unlikely.

Jmo

I found it hard to decipher what was actually fact or what he had inferred.
He has an odd rambling way of speaking, inarticulate.
He says "more or less" a lot.
He seemed to be embellishing things a little for a bit of attention.

It doesn't matter really. Kaylee's friends will have more detail on the stalking incident and I'm sure have informed police.

 

[everybodhi]

K was a social butterfly. Very outgoing from what we know. She probably made friends very easily. I can see that she would carry on a conversation with the vape store employee if she frequented that store regularly.

Wasn't the employee being interviewed by the reporter?

The owner of the white Elantra probably has it in a garage and are vacuuming it very meticulously, wiping it down to remove fingerprints. Removing the seats if possible, to clean under and around them. I remember reading a book about Ted Bundy and how LE knew he was guilty, but did not have enough evidence, and had sit and watch him clean his VW bug of all evidence. He knew they were watching and that they could do nothing.

In a News Nation interview with Brian Entin, twice, the vape store manager quoted Maddie, the first time at minute

1:15 “we’ve had a friend be stalked before that’s why we all travel together. It was Maddie who actually said that and kinda motioned towards her”. [KG]

He repeated this, pretty much verbatim, again later in the interview.
Idaho store manager says Kaylee Goncalves complained of stalker

 

[GhostGhost]

That’s a solid take IMO.

This latest information really shows a man on a mission.

-

 

[pentimento]

I've wondered that too - about the timing of 6-7 text messages to an ex-boyfriend at the same time that a vehicle seems to be heading to the house to murder them - seems unusual. 3 AM messages to ex, car spotted at 2:45-3:15 heading to the murders - which is minutes away.

This also just made me think of how the killer would know who was in the house. Previously, we've thought that they were hiding in that back area, watching what was going on inside. But if they drove over there and pretty much immediately killed them, how would they know who was home, who might be with them or what they were doing?

 

[branmuffin]

Killers do not have to preform a sex act to get an arousal. Some killers are aroused by the act of killing itself, strangulation for example, others are aroused by the power they hold over taking a human life and yet others are aroused by the corpse itself. Just because there was no sex act preformed does not make this a non-sexual crime the perpetrator could have got sexual satisfaction out of this.

A crime of passion doesn't necessarily have a sexual connotation. A woman who murders an abusive husband while being assaulted is a crime of passion. A heated argument between family members which ends in assault with a deadly weapon is a crime of passion. Even road rage incidents could be considered crimes of passion.

The definition of a crime of passion is the act of murder that takes place when a person is emotionally charged or responds to a provocation and reacts without thinking. The person who commits the crime is reacting to a stimuli; they simply act without premeditation.

I don't see these murders as a crime of passion. The murders don't appear random or opportunistic to me. They appear calculated and planned. Although I do believe that at least one of the victims is collateral damage.

 

[LynnWhite]

it looks like an Veloster but they share parts. Could be the speed distorted the car as it drove by

To me that black A pillar says it all . . . I really think you’re right, that car is a Hyundai Veloster.

 

[JackieBrown]

What we know so far about white car, time and direction.

View attachment 387913

This route smacks of two opposing options:

1. Someone that is familiar with the quickest route to the house.

OR

2. Someone who is unfamiliar with the area, but has a destination address using Google Maps to route the shortest distance.

Perhaps when LE indicates “the scope of the investigation” they mean requesting forensic data. I’m sure Google could pull all requests for the address.

*edited to clarify #2

 

[Curiosa20]

Why not take this to the logical conclusion?: "a car zipping around a college town in the middle of the night" is not the "ONLY thing that sparked the search".

Except that based on what has been said officially, it is what sparked excitement. I don’t see the logic in the conclusion.
Searching through 22,000 vehicle registrations, no known suspect, no weapon, no motive. That’s where it’s at unless we make assumptions.
A mystery car is a lead. Hopefully promising and will lead to a break. IMO
JMO MOO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

<modsnip> This is not a criticism of LE whatsoever, not sure why people think it is...

I'm genuine wondering why gas stations on main artery roads/highways weren't first checked is all at beginning and might give a clue what LE were maybe thinking at first (perp was on foot maybe they thought) or if thinking non-relevant. I'm curious the train of thought at the beginning as things seems to have changed (maybe I'm wrong, thinking out loud and MOO)

The gas station is close to the house, only minutes about 15 mins away. Looks like 2-3 close by and other businesses. I'm hoping all businesses everywhere are checking their videos more now after the car release image.

View attachment 387835

I'm willing to bet that LE has more video than necessary, even from major highways. LE not only has to find the perp but must have proof of the perp in the area and video footage, purchase receipts and phone pings are routinely used. I'm a big "The First 48 Hours" fan and after every crime, detectives round up video, phone records and receipts from the crime scene fanning outwards to gather identifying info.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

What we know so far about white car, time and direction.

View attachment 387913

The car direction on White Ave. is disputed. Fox News clearly reports the car was traveling on HWY 8 when the photo was taken of a car at high speed. Fox quoted the night manager's testimony "The car drove by "real quick," she said, and turned down a side street off Highway 8" Whether you believe that is a 2 or 3 lane road, it is not clear from the image because the complete road and the angle can mislead this presumption. The only fact that is clear is the quoted detailed testimony of the manager, passing by on Hwy 8 and turning off a side street. To me, it makes sense to be traveling east away from the location and continuing the pattern of side streets. It demonstrates that they were very familiar with the path and the fastest way to go east. After the Exon station they may continue to go east or travel north along main roads or disappear within those neighborhoods. So, this may indicate it was a local not necessarily affiliated with the University community and very familiar with the area. Motive ? some exchange between the university students and locals potentially ? thoughts

Idaho murders: Cops take hours of video from gas station after clerk spots white car on night of stabbings

An Idaho gas station clerk says she found a white sedan on surveillance video taken on the night of a quadruple homicide nearby and sent it to police.

www.foxnews.com

 

[gtg427s]

And wasn’t this the place that had no available video- haha? Actually, IMO this dude might be high as a kite MOO.

Two different vape shops

https://twitter.com/x/status/1603593523286003712

 

[OldCop]

I am trying to picture a timeline based on the assumption that this is the car investigators are interested in.
White Car seen sometime between 2.45am-3.15am heading west
Final call KG made 2:52am
White car seen near gas station (5 (?)mins away). 3.45am - presumably heading away from the premises.
Both the ‘arrival time’ and ‘departure time’ of the car (3.15am-/ 3.45am) would match with being at the house ‘between 3am-4am). This is likely the same car. I feel like an arrest could be made before Christmas

The car seen on White near the gas station at 3:45 seemed to be traveling west towards 1122, not away from it.
ICBW but I personally don’t think that this vehicle is the one Moscow PD is looking for. For all we know, they have 10 or 15 videos of small, older, white vehicles from that night that they have retrieved or people have turned in.
We know about this one because the manager told the press who are stationed all over Moscow waiting like hungry dogs for any little crumb that might be tossed at them.

 

[GhostGhost]

I've wondered that too - about the timing of 6-7 text messages to an ex-boyfriend at the same time that a vehicle seems to be heading to the house to murder them - seems unusual. 3 AM messages to ex, car spotted at 2:45-3:15 heading to the murders - which is minutes away.

If the white vehicle is involved and the time stamps are correct, the car seems to be heading to the house roughly 45 minutes after the third floor tenants left the food trucks ... to go home, eat pasta and play mid-night phone tag. Maybe it would be interesting to look at the walking and travel time between the food trucks and the mass murder house.

That would give a radius of where the suspect might be ... based on the assumption that the killer knew that the girls picked up pasta after the pub. Was that a usual thing ... stop at the food trucks to load up on pasta after a night of drinking? I'm curious. If the girls typically walked from the pub to the food trucks before getting an uber home, someone not on film at the food trucks could have been expecting them?

Good ideas, but I’m 100% on the White Elantra.

It goes in and doesn’t come out Taylor - and no one comes forward in this small town to explain they were innocently driving by, and I can explain all that.

I think we’re going to find out they see it on King or Queen and that’s when they launched the Car hunt.

They said immediate area of residence.

Thanks

MOO.