ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[margarita25]

Kristen Smart I believe is the girl you are thinking of.

Yes, thank you Sheila!!!

Now, from her link, as related to this case, BBM:

“Kristin's life, dreams and future were stolen on May 25, 1996, when she was abducted by another student (suspect Paul Rueben Flores) on the Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo campus around 2 am. Campus Police failed to act appropriately and did not contact local law enforcement agencies in a timely manner. The Kristin Smart Campus Safety Act (1998) now requires ALL college campus police to contact and connect with local law enforcement agencies for any case of violence against a student. Paul Flores, the only suspect and last person to be seen with Kristin, continues to be uncooperative and is hiding behind the 5th Amendment.”

About Disappearance — Kristin Smart Scholarship

www.kristinsmart.org

 

[Harikari]

I'm a cold-water swimmer/surfer, and I'd be surprised if it were a wet suit. They are designed to be porous enough to let a thin layer of water in, which your body then warms and uses as an additional layer of insulation. And they are meant to fit super tight to avoid drag in the water (which means they take a few minutes to remove). I could see the use of a dry suit, which can be used to keep water completely out and are not formfitting, but they are pricey ($1,000 and up).

And they’re So hard to move in…out of the water. No way could someone move fast enough to kill 4 people in a cold water suit Without other roomies having time to scream, run.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Being an Idaho resident who travels to Moscow and Pullman on occasion. Typically one would fly to Spokane and then drive there. Drive time from Spokane is 1 hour 30 min to 1 hour 50 minutes depending on which route you go.
View attachment 388723

I always fly in/out of the Moscow/Pullman airport when I travel. Shrug

Also, it’s entertaining to watch the increase in private plane traffic in/out of our local airport on either UI or WSU game weekends.

Both had home games that weekend, IIRC.

Moo.

 

[smokeybandit]

New info on the car will probably lead to a breakthrough. They've been looking for it since the start of the investigation.

Dec 19th article from The Independent: Idaho murders – update: Victim’s father says ‘Adam’ mentioned in new video isn’t a suspect in Moscow stabbings

"A local landlord has now indicated that police may have been focusing on the mystery vehicle long before releasing the details to the public and that the lead may have come from footage he handed over one day after the killings.

Kane Francetich told Fox News that investigators had reached out asking for surveillance footage from a camera on his six-unit rental building on Linda Lane in Moscow. The property is 0.3 miles from the King Road address where the killings took place.

Mr Francetich said he handed over footage from 2am to noon on 13 November.

The video captured a “white” or “light coloured” car driving past at around the time of the murders, he said.

The vehicle was travelling west on Taylor Road sometime between 2.45am and 3.15am, he said. Taylor Road is the main street which connects the home on King Road to Highway 95."

 

[smokeybandit]

Also from Independent (yesterday): Idaho murders – update: Victim’s father says ‘Adam’ mentioned in new video isn’t a suspect in Moscow stabbings

"Investigators gather footage 24 miles away from crime scene​

Sunday 18 December 2022 20:30

Investigators have gathered surveillance footage from as far as 24 miles away from the student rental home where four University of Idaho students were murdered as the hunt for the killer continues.

Security footage has been collected from the Food City store in Kendrick, Fox News reported.

A manager at the store – which is about 24 miles east of Moscow – said that Idaho State Police had reached out on 30 November asking for footage from 12 November to 14 November. (BBM)

The manager said they were able to provide video covering those timeframes.

In the town of Troy – around 12 miles east of Moscow – a gas station employee revealed that law enforcement officials had also come knocking for footage but that the business was unable to help as it does not have cameras outside.

It is not clear whether investigators are honing in on those Idaho towns for any particular reason but the revelation comes amid a search for the occupant or occupants of a white Hyundai Elentra which was spotted “in the immediate area” around King Road at the time of the murders."

 

[PrairieWind]

In some states, cities are separate from counties completely. In other states, cities are in counties, but they have their own government. I’m not sure about Idaho or even who has jurisdiction.

But your question *could* be like asking why the state police isn’t in charge, since the city is in a county which is in a state. Or even why isn’t the FBI in charge because a city is in a county is in a state is in a nation. (MOO. Just sharing possibilities. )

While the city is in the county, there is typically some sort of memorandum of understanding between county and city about jurisdiction. It may be that the city police have better resources.

 

[margarita25]

Adding to post above, when I think about my “role” here at WS, I think of this place being a big sounding board and place to jump off each other’s thoughts, come up with ideas, document, and possibly come up with things that we can submit to LE.

Anything on these boards that is noteworthy or possibly important/relevant gets submitted to LE, working off the information that LE provides.

I hate that other platforms that don’t have rules and is a big free for all and doxxing, say some FB groups, or whatever, gives all the people who do work in conjunction with LE a bad name. I was thinking this when Brian Entin had that feature about sleuths being a pain to LE, but was glad when he said some really try to help (paraphrasing). I don’t want to be in that category of compromising an investigation or being a pain to LE. The goal is the absolute opposite.

 

[Louise369]

Let’s analyze the difference in LE’s wording of where both sets of victims were during the night.


“On the evening of November 12th, Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were at a local bar called Corner Club at 202 N. Main Street, in downtown Moscow, between 10 p.m. and 1:30 a.m.”


“Investigators have determined that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were seen at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road”

……

“Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi
house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred.”

Is the reason that they can make these definitive statements about where M and k were because corner club surveillance video proves they were there? Meanwhile, no cameras at Sigma Chi house , so LE simply can’t prove it with anything (besides witness accounts)?

Or is the reason because they know they went elsewhere- and are not providing the public with the information on where they went for good reason?

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I’m not insinuating anything by sharing this. However, I am curious if anyone has ever attended one of these events and just how violent or traumatic it might be. Anyone with insight?

Events at the University of Idaho

Find a variety of university hosted events such as campus recreation, speaker presentations, alumni get-togethers and performances.

www.uidaho.edu

 

[smokeybandit]

Someone should make an updated map of areas where police requested and obtained footage, and highlight possible arrival and departure routes from the house.

For example, this map should include pins of known traffic/house cameras, the area to the south police wanted footage from at the start of the investigation, and this new area east of Moscow that includes Kendrick and Troy, with a pin on particular locations like the Food City in Kendrick. Then highlight possible routes the vehicle drove approaching the house and use a different color for routes the vehicle probably took leaving.

I'm not really interested in putting pins in places like the food truck and the Corner Club. Just want to see arrival/departure routes and pins for the cameras related to the car that LE are interested in on the same map.

 

[RainbowRoad]

<snipped for focus>

I don't recall LE taking action to lockdown the city. I do remember that the university went into an immediate lockdown for a short time when the murders were announced. But not the city. Don't think that would be possible.

Yes exactly what I’m saying. Not enough was down in the immediate sense. No one mentioned locking down the city.

 

[CrownCowboy1]

Let’s analyze the difference in LE’s wording of where both sets of victims were during the night.


“On the evening of November 12th, Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were at a local bar called Corner Club at 202 N. Main Street, in downtown Moscow, between 10 p.m. and 1:30 a.m.”


“Investigators have determined that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were seen at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road”

……

“Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi
house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred.”

Is the reason that they can make these definitive statements about where M and k were because corner club surveillance video proves they were there? Meanwhile, no cameras at Sigma Chi house , so LE simply can’t prove it with anything (besides witness accounts)?

Or is the reason because they know they went elsewhere- and are not providing the public with the information on where they went for good reason?

In my opinion, I am pretty confident that they know more about the whereabouts of Ethan and Xana during the timeframe in question than they are letting on. Considering the resources at their disposal, the amount of people they have probably interviewed, etc. I would be shocked if they haven't put together their actions and movements for that timeframe.

The question is why aren't they telling the public if that's the case. Must be something more to it in regards to the crime perhaps. All just my opinion of course.

 

[margarita25]

I don't know what "be vigilant" even means. I'm not trying to be difficult about this but it's so ambiguous it means nothing. Should we go around assuming that everyone we come into contact with including the police, are sadistic serial killers, just to be on the safe side? In the morning before going to work should I request a police presence to watch me walk from my door to my car, just in case someone is watching. Is that me exercising due diligence? Without context their words are nothing more than empty platitudes.

Interesting you mention “be vigilant”.

I’ve actually talked about this before, based on what I learned from Jessica Ridgeway’s case. I’ve said before, that when LE says “be vigilant”, that is code for “Houston we have a problem” and “there’s a dangerous person on the loose” that could strike again, imo. I’ve even waited for LE to say this in certain PCs, specifically to gauge if this is what they think, that the killer could strike again. I’ve said before here “If LE says ‘Be vigilant’, then we’re in trouble.”

Which brings me to the next point - I was watching “Predator At Large”, about the abduction and murder of poor little Samantha Runyon. LE clearly outright said they think he will do this again. Now, this was based on different things, child predator, sexual assault, and particularly her body been disgustingly “staged”. I was thinking about how in other cases I’ve heard LE say for sure they think this predator will strike again.

So I was thinking, has LE come out outright and said this here? If they have I missed it, and I’m wondering, as far as the “targeted” thing, if this contradicts this assumption that he will strike again. But then they say “Be Vigilant,” which imo and experience is cop language for “be very very careful because he is still out there and could strike again”.

—-

Eta: Perhaps LE is using this term more generally in this case, in an answer to the community about “what we as community members can do in this situation”. But I DO wonder specifically based on what I mentioned above, and also wonder because often BAU/FBI, one of the main things they do is evaluate the probability of whether or not they think a predator is likely to commit the crime again, but the cases I refer to usually involve sexually motivated abductions and murders. Sometimes LE comes flat out and says this, “we think this person could strike again”, if not hinting with code words “Be vigilant”, imo.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I have been baffled by the absence of the County Sheriff in the investigation. The Sheriff has jurisdiction over the county, although the city of Moscow has local PD.
Anybody have a thought about that?

MPD has jurisdiction within city limits, not the Sheriff’s Office.

The Sheriff’s Office did help out early; IIRC, their mobile command trailer was on site until ISP’s arrived & they might have helped with personnel early as well.

MOO

 

[Down To Earth]

I’m not insinuating anything by sharing this. However, I am curious if anyone has ever attended one of these events and just how violent or traumatic it might be. Anyone with insight?

Events at the University of Idaho

Find a variety of university hosted events such as campus recreation, speaker presentations, alumni get-togethers and performances.

www.uidaho.edu

View attachment 388754

That's interesting sleuthing. Nice work. May have no relevance but I like the diligence and you just never know...

 

[GhostGhost]

Also from Independent (yesterday): Idaho murders – update: Victim’s father says ‘Adam’ mentioned in new video isn’t a suspect in Moscow stabbings

"Investigators gather footage 24 miles away from crime scene​

Sunday 18 December 2022 20:30

Investigators have gathered surveillance footage from as far as 24 miles away from the student rental home where four University of Idaho students were murdered as the hunt for the killer continues.

Security footage has been collected from the Food City store in Kendrick, Fox News reported.

A manager at the store – which is about 24 miles east of Moscow – said that Idaho State Police had reached out on 30 November asking for footage from 12 November to 14 November. (BBM)

The manager said they were able to provide video covering those timeframes.

In the town of Troy – around 12 miles east of Moscow – a gas station employee revealed that law enforcement officials had also come knocking for footage but that the business was unable to help as it does not have cameras outside.

It is not clear whether investigators are honing in on those Idaho towns for any particular reason but the revelation comes amid a search for the occupant or occupants of a white Hyundai Elentra which was spotted “in the immediate area” around King Road at the time of the murders."

Troy and Kendrick can lead someone to believe that was him at the Mobil.

Even entering and not departing via Taylor can add to that Mobil car being possibly Legit.

MPD has something called Rumor control on their releases. They haven’t said that car isn’t an Elantra as they did with the car in the Police Body cam footage at band field.

My opinion

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Yes exactly what I’m saying. Not enough was down in the immediate sense. No one mentioned locking down the city.

Boston did an amazing job shutting down the city when they were chasing the marathon bombers. Worked very well. But totally different situation, they were actually chasing the brothers and ferreting them out.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The "public's right to know" discussion has derailed this thread for pages now. That is a social justice issue (which will never be solved via discussion at Websleuths) ... when the actual topic of this discussion is the tragic killing of 4 young adults.

Move on to discuss the actual case.

Thank you.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

That white car just seems to have vanished. Somebody in Moscow must recognize it? How is it possible no one knows who’s car it is?

 

[BondGirl007]

I have been baffled by the absence of the County Sheriff in the investigation. The Sheriff has jurisdiction over the county, although the city of Moscow has local PD.
Anybody have a thought about that?

In my area, the Sheriff only has jurisdiction in the county outside the city limits.