ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

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Slash and Tear are synonyms

Synonymous relations for Slash and Tear on the Thesaurus.plus!
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LynnWhite said:
I've felt from the beginning that the knife itself likely tells a lot about whomever bought it, so was a little disappointed when they disclosed that it wasn't necessarily a Ka-Bar, as I'd hoped early on it might help lead them to the killer. There are a LOT of different types of long, fixed blade knives, and reasons for owning them, and knowing exactly what it was could, I believe, open the door to understanding this individual's hobbies, where and how they spend their time, possible online activity, etc. I'd personally be obsessing over answering exactly what he used, along with all the rest of the things they're having to look into.

So this will seem random to anyone who's not familiar with knives and knife collectors, but for any of you who are - doesn't that description sound like it could be more of a heavy chopper, like a ESEE, kukri, or even a hatchet? All my opinion as always, but I'm not speculating wildly here - I own all three (and several ka-bars) because I've spent a lifetime enjoying camping and backpacking. "Tears" is an odd word to use IMO, and I'm not all that sure how you get there with an actual combat knife - when I read the above post again a moment ago it dawned on me that their actual description of "edged weapon like a knife" leaves the door open to many very specific types of bladed tools. Someone early on said something to the effect of "find the knife and you find the killer" and I've agreed with it all along. 2 cents on a Thursday afternoon!
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Slash and Tear are synonyms

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If this was actually the case, I could respect LE if they came out and said,

We got nothing. No suspects, no suspicious social media activity, no confirmed DNA, nothing. Video surveillance would indicate that there was a white Elantra in the area and we’d like to speak to the driver of that car. We’re working our butts off, but we’re also in desperate need of a Christmas miracle.
 
nisco said:
You have that backwards. Both on 3rd floor were found in Maddie’s bed.
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And based on this and the flurry of calls Kaylee made, I strongly suspect they were both a little uncomfortable and spooked about something. I know when I'm spooked, I want to sleep in close proximity to someone else.
 
Olivia Reed said:
‘Lots of people knew the inside of the house’….resulting in a Ton of DNA for Forensics to go through, can understand that it would take LE substantial time to identify and Interview the owners of such DNA or those identified in he Police Footage!
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Would be nearly impossible to find the identities of so many strangers. That's why the only hope, DNA-wise, is that the intimate zone around the victims (their bodies, their beds, the floors in their room) contain only one person's stranger DNA or at least, only a handful of possible profiles.

Given that the DNA in question (from the murderer) is likely scant (esp if he wore gloves, long sleeves, a gaiter or ski mask or a hat), this case is not one where DNA Is going to be open/shut/plainly identify the killer. It will likely be touch DNA from the intimate zone but there are *so* many innocent explanations for why someone's DNA could start out in one place in a house and end up mixed in with other DNA in another part of a house,

I think witnesses are going to be crucial here. First, to challenge any alibis, and second, to provide the "patterns" that LE say they are beginning to see.

Which_pancake said:
Snipped for focus

Full twitch stream
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Thank you SO much.
 
PrairieWind said:
Didn't the store owner state that right after the murders the police came and asked if they sold K-bar knives? Not Kbar type knives, but Kbar.
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Not sure how LE could tell it was specifically a K-Bar knife and not a K-Bar type knife. Unless maybe they found a K-Bar sheath, or maybe a piece of the knife broke during the attack?
 
nisco said:
Here is what you said:

“The official police statement says that all four were likely attacked while they slept“

Do you not see how that is different from what both the coroner and the MPD actually said? That they were likely asleep (presumably when the attack began) is very different from being attacked while they slept, particularly if they were all not found in their beds. Some were attacked while they slept. Not all four.
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Precisely. I have always interpreted this as the murderer entered the home and started murdering while the occupants were asleep. It doesn't mean someone didn't wake up before the murderer got to him/her and was ready to fight back.

For the record, there is no way to tell whether a person was asleep or not. They may have been wide awake in bed for all we (or the police) know.
 
Sjöberg said:
What intrigues me about this take, is that the only high risk aspect here is the location. Kinda rhymes with the PD saying the residence was the target. But also with the general idea that had it been just a thrill killer, it is unlikely to pick that particular house. While if someone wanted to target the resident(s) of this house, is makes all the sense to attack while they're drunk and asleep, while it's ca 3-4 AM, and mostly even to use knife (still hints at personal/damage/sadistic, but a gun at 3AM in a house with 6 people is also a bad idea).
So I still get the feeling of targeted. There was a reason to go to this house. And there might have been a reason for the knife (if the aim was to just kill one of them, they could have shot that person in any secluded location - why didn't they and what do these possible reasons tell us?).
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Agreed, and it may be the method matches the location and victims.
Maybe that is what they did right, managed risks well?

Lowering all the risks would look like this…
-children or the elderly
-one person alone
-asleep
-rural area
To a hunter this may be boring? Where is the hunt, where is the risk/thrill?

Stabbing with a knife is not a utility killing, it is a up close covered in blood.
A gun with a silencer could have accomplished the same end, but less messy and risk of victim being able to defend themselves.

Disgusting to imagine
JMO
 
Strong1 said:
Not sure how LE could tell it was specifically a K-Bar knife and not a K-Bar type knife. Unless maybe they found a K-Bar sheath, or maybe a piece of the knife broke during the attack?
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A broken blade remnant was the first thing I thought. Remember how KGs dads said her wounds were more like gouges than stabs? Broken knife.
 
NCTeacher said:
Precisely. I have always interpreted this as the murderer entered the home and started murdering while the occupants were asleep. It doesn't mean someone didn't wake up before the murderer got to him/her and was ready to fight back.

For the record, there is no way to tell whether a person was asleep or not. They may have been wide awake in bed for all we (or the police) know.
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Absolutely. They’ve always and only stated that the attacks “began” while the victims were asleep in their beds. After the attack began, the events which unfolded are anyone’s guess. Jmoo
 
AngTxGal said:
Lone mass killers that Survived- Blaze of Glory type killers
Parkland Florida School Shooting- 2018- Cruz
Santa Fe, TX School Shooting- 2018- Dimitrios
Highland Park July 4th Shooting- 2022- Crimo
Colorado Springs nightclub Shooting- 2022- Aldrich

Above appear to suffer mental illness- but not warranting an insanity defense

Lone mass stabbing killers
Reading, UK stabbing-2020- 3 killed knew them- Saadallah
Sagamihara, Japan stabbings- 2016- 19 killed, Uematsu

JMO
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Missing a big one, but maybe it's too long ago. Richard Speck stabbed 8 nurses in Chicago 1966. He did not know any of them, did not stalk them. Survived to be captured.
 
Semantics? Lack of Attribution of Statements?
drmrgrl said:
We are arguing about semantics IMO
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@drmrgrl Semantics? Well, personally don't wanna have a debate about definition or meaning of semantics, but can offer one point about some posts of the last several hours.

1. A post said (WTTE) LE said vics were attacked while sleeping.
2. A post said (WTTE) LE said ditto, but also specified "likely."
3. A post quoted & linked LE's press release: "...The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep..."

Yes, it was the coroner who said that. The release did not say LE concluded vics were sleeping; it repeated a stmt from the coroner, and explicitly ATTRIBUTED that stmt to her. Posts 1 & 2 neglected to mention that.*

By tracking & checking actual sources, like LE's press release itself in this instance, instead of relying on our often mistaken or incomplete memories, we can have more informed discussions.
In these 35 threads, there have been many similar posts w misleading or inaccurate stmts about details like this.

Admittedly, during my 11 years on WS, I've posted some booboos of my own, but w so few known facts re these tragic deaths, seems we should try to keep them straight. imo jmo moo

ETA: * Moscow PD Press Release, Dec. 6, page 2.
"... The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep,..."
 
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OckhamsRazor22 said:
“The coroner told him that the perpetrator was a "strong individual," but police have yet to identify the suspect's gender.”


Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

The father of slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves said the victims had "big open gouges" that were clearly the work of a "sadistic male" and called police "cowards" for not sharing more with the public.
www.fox5atlanta.com www.fox5atlanta.com
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How much precedent is there for women committing crimes of this level of savagery? Not much would be my guess.
 
PrairieWind said:
Didn't the store owner state that right after the murders the police came and asked if they sold K-bar knives? Not Kbar type knives, but Kbar.
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I thought I remembered that as well. It was reported soon after the murders but before the autopsy (on Wednesday?). And yet that is what they are looking for. Coroner measured the depth and width of wounds? Killer wiped the blade off on bedding leaving an imprint of the knife? Something led LE to go to that weapon and not a butcher knife or Bowie knife. And before the autopsy.
 
OrlandoJames said:
How much precedent is there for women committing crimes of this level of savagery? Not much would be my guess.
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Recent memory- Courtney Clenney killed her bf with a 6 inch steak knife
DV situation- not sure if it was mutual physical violence, or he was mainly the victim

JMO
 
NuttMegg said:
i know we talked about this before, I just don't put any validity to the use of "their" in the context of that sentence. She meant, imo, some were killed/not killed "in beds". The coroner, imo, does not seem to use precise descriptive language.
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What makes you think k or m weren’t killed in their beds? Sg said wounds were bigger which could indicate she was moving around some but I don’t interpret that as being out of the bed. IMO
 
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