ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes, I have always thought that a sheath or something was left behind. MOO, just speculation

FWIW, I had a similar thought. Ka Bar sheaths come with the name embossed on them, so if the sheath was left behind, that could explain why LE zeroed in on a Ka Bar so quickly.

Also, I won't get graphic here, but I have several military friends who are familiar with KA Bar knives. Every single one of them confirmed to me that a Ka Bar is capable of making the types of wounds SG described.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Because he didn’t actually live in the house, HIS bed was somewhere else, he was in his girlfriend’s bed. It’s actually not as important an issue as K and M being in the same bed as far as a motive clue as it was probably a usual situation for him, but it is technically correct that he was not in his bed.

It is believed that he or Xana bled out against the wall which accounts for the blood drip down the outside of the home. Everyone assumes Ethan but hasn’t been stated. JMO

 

[CityKid]

We know so little about even the most basic of facts that it makes speculation little more than wild guesses.

For instance I watched an interesting video today that makes a compelling case that one of the surviving roommates room was actually the other bedroom on the 2nd floor. If that's true (and I can tell you the evidence supporting it is compelling) that raises a whole bunch of questions that most people have not even considered because they have been assuming those two lived on the first floor.

And per the 9/1 body cam footage for the noise complaint, the room to the right of the door on the lowest level was not occupied on 9/1. Plus, LE has never specifically stated where each person died.

 

[10ofRods]

Not sure how LE could tell it was specifically a K-Bar knife and not a K-Bar type knife. Unless maybe they found a K-Bar sheath, or maybe a piece of the knife broke during the attack?

I believe that at least one store owner/representative said "Ka-bar type knife" was the request.

However, I think they would know what style knife even before a full autopsy based on depth of wounds and especially the typical bruising caused by the hilt of the knife. Early on in the autopsy, I would expect they would have used x-ray or even MRI to document the wounds before the rest of the procedure went on.

But I don't think LE has ever said it was a Ka-Bar or even a Ka-Bar type knife. Which is interesting. I don't recall a grid search of the area, looking for the weapon. I do recall pictures of dogs on scene, but not a full on search of the immediate area around the house for a weapon. Nor has the public been asked to BOLO for a discarded knife.

All of that is very interesting. It's even interesting (if true) that two stores were contacted (two sporting goods stores, apparently) about recent purchase of a knife, almost as if some witness said "So and so recently acquired a certain kind of knife." LE may have just been on a fishing expedition (and hopefully they went to all area stores that sell that style knife - and asked for video footage as far back as it could go).

She is stumbling less in the video of the three walking down Main St.
IMO

Agreed. But that means that the alcohol is kicking in more while they're waiting for food. Still, neither is falling down drunk nor do they appear that they are on the verge of passing out or showing other signs of acute alcohol intoxication. They are, I think, tipsy. KG appears to be above the legal limit but not in danger of passing out. It's always possible they drank after arriving home, I guess. The toxicology reports will be of interest to at least some of us.

Elliott Rodger Was a strange beast indeed. He went out in a crazy and chaotic blaze of glory. He never planned to live through it. His was on a suicide mission hellbent on taking out as many of the untouchables as possible.

This killer…well. This guy is one for the books. JMOO

Right? And so many of these mass murder style killers do intend to die during or after their attacks.

This murder is different, though. It's mystifying. And it's tied in some way to college life, in a college town. I think it's going to be tough to solve and I hope I'm wrong.

 

[NCTeacher]

I love cell phone/tower pings smart watch electronic footprints evidence in cases, and find it tells the whole truth.

I know it's on the record about the many late night, consecutive calls to the ex-boyfriend have supposedly been ruled out, but I'm still intrigued about what seems like to me, the urgency of the calls, and if K wanted to do some personal late night chatting with her ex-boyfriend after the bar, I get it.

What I don't get is why is M also calling K's ex-boyfriend in what seems like to me, urgency succession.

I wonder if they had the vibe they were being watched.

MOO

Yes, this, 100%. I think a flurry of calls in a short period of time, including one from Maddy, to Kaylee's ex suggests they wanted desperately to get ahold of him. Maddy probably called thinking he was ignoring Kaylee and maybe would answer Maddy instead. It may have been customary for the two to sleep in each other's bed, but I think on this night they were fearful in some way and felt safer sleeping in the same room.

 

[CityKid]

MM is visibly stumbling in the food truck video

Literally knocked into the woman in the white coat twice, too.

 

[NuttMegg]

What makes you think k or m weren’t killed in their beds? Sg said wounds were bigger which could indicate she was moving around some but I don’t interpret that as being out of the bed. IMO

i didn't say that. The point I was discussing is that I don't think the coroner meant "their bed" ie possessive, that one of them was in their bed, but the other one was not in " her own" bed.

I think the coroner meant killed/attacked in bed, in a bed, not specifically referring to whose bed it technically was.

Others disagree with me

 

[WildWest]

Yes, I have always thought that a sheath or something was left behind. MOO, just speculation

I was wondering if the sheath was on his belt.

 

[Balthazar]

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

I asked Moscow Police Chief James Fry whether they believe the killer is still in the Idaho area or far away. “We are not disclosing any of that. Some of that we just don’t know at this point.” My full interview when I fill in for Dan Abrams on
@NewsNation
at 9pmET.










853 views

This just screams that LE doesn't have a suspect.

 

[WildWest]

MM is visibly stumbling in the food truck video

And she might have stumbled in the very beginning of the sidewalk video.

New Clue About 'Adam' in Murder Case Of 4 Idaho College Students

A tantalizing new clue has surfaced in the murders of 4 Idaho college students ... two of the victims were seemingly caught on video discussing a person named "Adam" just hours before they were slaughtered.

www.tmz.com

 

[Jessthinkin]

And based on this and the flurry of calls Kaylee made, I strongly suspect they were both a little uncomfortable and spooked about something. I know when I'm spooked, I want to sleep in close proximity to someone else.

My guess is that Kaylee's room was all packed up to move/not set up for sleeping anymore, so she left her dog in there (possibly crated) and slept in Maddie's bed.

 

[AngTxGal]

However, I think they would know what style knife even before a full autopsy based on depth of wounds and especially the typical bruising caused by the hilt of the knife.
…
The toxicology reports will be of interest to at least some of us.
…
Right? And so many of these mass murder style killers do intend to die during or after their attacks.
…
This murder is different, though. It's mystifying. And it's tied in some way to college life, in a college town. I think it's going to be tough to solve and I hope I'm wrong.

I think someone who doesn’t know Idaho or knives said KBar. It is a fixed blade hunting style knife. The number of them in a single county in Idaho would be mind boggling. Checking recent sales imo was laughable- they would be in pawn shops, antique stores, WalMart, sporting goods stores, Amazon, handed down in families, garage sales.
Unless someone saw it being used in these murders, or they identify the perp and find it in home or car, or there is confession and they tell where they tossed it, or it is found still covered with victim blood- how could you identify it?

Yes, Tox report will tell how intoxicated the victims were and if other things are in their system. High vulnerability

This is not a one and done Blaze of Glory event, IMO. It is horrific bloody up close physical crime and a cat and mouse game, the killer has no intention of losing his life or getting caught. He walked (or drove) away into the night and is hiding or blending back into society.

JMO

 

[Jessthinkin]

Absolutely. They’ve always and only stated that the attacks “began” while the victims were asleep in their beds. After the attack began, the events which unfolded are anyone’s guess. Jmoo

I've not read it reported that way. In fact, it;'s been said repeatedly (by the coroner and others) that the victims were killed in their beds.

if you have info to contradict that, please post a link.

Coroner: Idaho students were stabbed to death in their beds

Four University of Idaho students found dead in a rental house last Sunday were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep when the attacks occurred.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[NCTeacher]

My guess is that Kaylee's room was all packed up to move/not set up for sleeping anymore, so she left her dog in there (possibly crated) and slept in Maddie's bed.

Wasn't she still a month away from moving out? It's purely speculation of course, but beds tend to be the first thing to set up and the last thing to take down when moving...

 

[Balthazar]

I believe that at least one store owner/representative said "Ka-bar type knife" was the request.

However, I think they would know what style knife even before a full autopsy based on depth of wounds and especially the typical bruising caused by the hilt of the knife. Early on in the autopsy, I would expect they would have used x-ray or even MRI to document the wounds before the rest of the procedure went on.

But I don't think LE has ever said it was a Ka-Bar or even a Ka-Bar type knife. Which is interesting. I don't recall a grid search of the area, looking for the weapon. I do recall pictures of dogs on scene, but not a full on search of the immediate area around the house for a weapon. Nor has the public been asked to BOLO for a discarded knife.

All of that is very interesting. It's even interesting (if true) that two stores were contacted (two sporting goods stores, apparently) about recent purchase of a knife, almost as if some witness said "So and so recently acquired a certain kind of knife." LE may have just been on a fishing expedition (and hopefully they went to all area stores that sell that style knife - and asked for video footage as far back as it could go).



Agreed. But that means that the alcohol is kicking in more while they're waiting for food. Still, neither is falling down drunk nor do they appear that they are on the verge of passing out or showing other signs of acute alcohol intoxication. They are, I think, tipsy. KG appears to be above the legal limit but not in danger of passing out. It's always possible they drank after arriving home, I guess. The toxicology reports will be of interest to at least some of us.



Right? And so many of these mass murder style killers do intend to die during or after their attacks.

This murder is different, though. It's mystifying. And it's tied in some way to college life, in a college town. I think it's going to be tough to solve and I hope I'm wrong.

Early on police asked the residents of Moscow to have a look around their yards and in their trash for anything that was out of place and police were seen going through dumpsters and trash cans.

 

[gliving]

MM is visibly stumbling in the food truck video

Right, plus the eye witness who saw them at the bar and grub truck:

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

New details have now emerged about Goncalves and Mogen's last night out from (JV), a local man who saw the two coeds out on the town and in the hours before the attack.

Police had previously said that the women were partying at the Corner Club bar the night before the attack.

(JV) was also there and said that the women were catching the attention of many of the men at the bar.

'A lot of guys were talking to them at the Corner Club,' he told DailyMail.com, adding that Goncalves was visibly drunk. 'The taller girl with the pink on, she was glass-eyed. I audibly said "Eww' out loud." She was just stumbling through.'

He said he left the Corner Club ahead of the girls and was with a neighbor who had just moved to Moscow, showing her the Grub Bus, a food truck popular with student with the late-night munchies.

'I was just there waiting because the Grub Bus takes forever when a bunch of drunk zombies show up there,' he said, noting that he was '100% sober.'

That's when the women showed up with a guy in a hoodie, who has been the subject of much speculation among internet sleuths as a suspect.

Police have not named the man, but said that he is not considered a suspect.

'I saw the (hoodie) guy show up with the two of them. The vibe I got from him is that he's super nice. He was trying to help them get home safe,' (JV) said.

 

[RainbowRoad]

<snipped for focus>

They locked down the university initially and then released it when they learned the murder was off campus and that local LE stated that it was a targeted attack, IIRC. The university's senior leadership was able to make the decisions, likely after conversations with local LE who also operate as campus police through a negotiated contract between the Mosco Police Department and the University of Idaho.

Also, I am sure that the president of the university was in constant contact with the chair of the university's Board of Regents while making the decisions. This is how things work with the chief executive officer of a university and his/her senior leadership team, and the Board to whom they report.

I see no reason to criticize the senior leadership at the University of Idaho, and wIth regard to b) finances - that would not have been a consideration at a time like this.

With regard to c) the university leadership would not know where the perp was, but was making their decision based on what they were told by LE, that this was an off campus crime and that it was targeted.

All JMO.

Sorry, I was referring to LE finances and leadership in my post. Not university. I am sure the university did the best they could.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think someone who doesn’t know Idaho or knives said KBar. It is a fixed blade hunting style knife. The number of them in a single county in Idaho would be mind boggling. Checking recent sales imo was laughable- they would be in pawn shops, antique stores, WalMart, sporting goods stores, Amazon, handed down in families, garage sales.
Unless someone saw it being used in these murders, or they identify the perp and find it in home or car, or there is confession and they tell where they tossed it, or it is found still covered with victim blood- how could you identify it?

Yes, Tox report will tell how intoxicated the victims were and if other things are in their system. High vulnerability

This is not a one and done Blaze of Glory event, IMO. It is horrific bloody up close physical crime and a cat and mouse game, the killer has no intention of losing his life or getting caught. He walked (or drove) away into the night and is hiding or blending back into society.

JMO

Wasn't it the police that said K-bar? And a k-bar is more of a survivalist knife than a good hunting knife.

 

[LynnWhite]

Didn't the store owner state that right after the murders the police came and asked if they sold K-bar knives? Not Kbar type knives, but Kbar.

He did, and early on I had made a post that questioned how certain they were, and what they even meant, when they said it was a Ka-Bar. First Ka-Bar is a brand, not a model, and even if it were the Ka-Bar USMC Fighting Knife, which the company is famous for, it seemed very specific unless they had a sheath, the exact imprint of the quillon or guard (which some were mistakenly calling a "hilt,"), etc. Then they came out and very specifically clarified that it wasn't necessarily a Ka-Bar knife per se, just an "edged weapon, like a knife." The link I posted to the Idaho Statesman article in my post earlier today captured that clarification that it wasn't specifically a Ka-Bar with the quote below - and there are more descriptive links buried in these threads, trying to find one now!

From that Statesman link:

Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell told the Statesman on Thursday that detectives visited several local hardware stores that may carry “fixed-blade type knives,” but that they weren’t solely asking about Ka-Bar knives.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I think someone who doesn’t know Idaho or knives said KBar. It is a fixed blade hunting style knife. The number of them in a single county in Idaho would be mind boggling. Checking recent sales imo was laughable- they would be in pawn shops, antique stores, WalMart, sporting goods stores, Amazon, handed down in families, garage sales.
Unless someone saw it being used in these murders, or they identify the perp and find it in home or car, or there is confession and they tell where they tossed it, or it is found still covered with victim blood- how could you identify it?

Yes, Tox report will tell how intoxicated the victims were and if other things are in their system. High vulnerability

This is not a one and done Blaze of Glory event, IMO. It is horrific bloody up close physical crime and a cat and mouse game, the killer has no intention of losing his life or getting caught. He walked (or drove) away into the night and is hiding or blending back into society.

JMO

I pretty much agree with all the above. We do not know what was said to the shop owners other than a K-BAR type knife was the subject and that could cover a multitude of knife types. To my knowledge the LE did not ask for military type knife sales but merely K-BAR types.
If the perp was a glory seeker he or she could have gone into the house with a firearm and shot all the occupants and then surrender. This perp does not want to be found and probably sauntered away in the darkiness after the murders. No need to hurry away as the murders would not be discovered for hours. JMHO.