ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[LynnWhite]

As someone who knows nothing about knives, would you be able to tell me what the difference between a survivalist knife and a hunting knife would be?

As someone who knows nothing about knives, would you be able to tell me what the difference between a survivalist knife and a hunting knife would be?

I just wrote a small essay on this, but realized it was way too detailed and boring I'll try to be more succinct!

Endless debate on exactly what makes a great camp/survival knife, so this is all generality. A modern survival knife is typically going to be thick side to side (likely more than 1/4"), relatively heavy, likely somewhere from 4-6 inches in blade length, and of a versatile shape for all kinds of things around a camp from prepping food to making tent pegs to actually splitting wood by "batoning." Very strong and stout, and not particularly pointy. Such a varied range of things a lot of people are going to have multiple knives, but a good example of a classic modern, do-it-all survival knife you'd find from someone into the outdoors is something like an ESEE 6. Then there's a whole field of survival called "bushcraft" that has become popular where you basically create everything you need from the materials available. (We used to just call that camping, but now they call it bushcraft, lol.) Anyway, that segment tends to be VERY into their knives, and Idaho is full of them.

A hunting knife is going to typically more specific to dressing a kill, so will usually have more sweep and belly to the blade, and will be generally thinner side to side allowing it easily slice, slide under the skin, etc. And honestly, a Ka-Bar USMC isn't ideal for either use for several reasons, but it used to be about all we had.

And of course at the end of the day any good sharp knife can be made to do all of the above in the right hands, but knife people can get pretty into their tools, which is why I was really curious early on why they said "Ka-Bar." That suggests someone who just got their first knife to me, or took one from grandpa, but as has been posted several times, they've since clarified that they didn't mean Ka-Bar specifically.

Still too long - hope that was helpful!

 

[NCTeacher]

I disagree. I think they were calling to clarify what was said to the bartender.

Well that would be odd, given they both had their cell phones on them the entire time but decided to panic/flurry call to clarify what was said 40 minutes after they got home... Why suddenly flurry call so long after the surveillance video conversation?

And what does the bartender have to do with the ex? From my understanding the bartender is a different Adam from her ex's roommate.

I find it striking that they were murdered within an hour or so of the last call.

 

[AngTxGal]

Wasn't it the police that said K-bar? And a k-bar is more of a survivalist knife than a good hunting knife.

As far as we know no one has seen the knife that was used- except of course the killer.
First it was described as a sharp edged weapon
Then descriptions of Rambo-style and KBar came out

Coroner or autopsy would give info on type of weapon.
- Bruising on the edges of the wounds was described
- We know they were fatal stabs to the torso
- Dimensions of wounds we don’t know

It was described as having a hilt- which caused the bruising next to the wounds
The depth of wounds must give evidence of a long fixed blade
We do know it would have to withstand this type of use without the blade breaking
Features on the knife have been speculated- tactical, military, hunting- we don’t know.

Curious enough, the earliest online Press Releases have no description of a knife, just lethal stab wounds.
Moscow Homicide Update Nov 18, 2022

JMO

 

[Emerald1328]

I've not read it reported that way. In fact, it;'s been said repeatedly (by the coroner and others) that the victims were killed in their beds.

if you have info to contradict that, please post a link.

Coroner: Idaho students were stabbed to death in their beds

Four University of Idaho students found dead in a rental house last Sunday were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep when the attacks occurred.

www.seattletimes.com

I posted this 9 pages ago. I won’t copy over my conclusion of what the two statements mean in relation to each other, no one needs to read that for the fourth time.


Re: in bed/not in bed, asleep/not asleep, I’ve posted this twice before and thought I’d post again. The conclusion is just my opinion, but links are included for the actual statements and timeframes:

This all originated when the coroner gave an interview to Ashleigh Banfield with NewsNation on Thursday, 11/17. In that interview she tells Banfield that the victims were found in their beds.

Coroner: Idaho college students were likely sleeping | Banfield

Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt tells #Banfield that the University of Idaho student murder victims were found in bed, and it's likely they were asleep.

www.newsnationnow.com

Then, the next day, Friday, 11/18, the coroner gave an interview to CBS News and said that earlier reports (I.e. her statement to Banfield the day before) stating that all 4 were murdered in their beds was not accurate.

“Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.”

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Balthazar]

Snipped for focus.

Has anyone considered that LE has the knife? If the person wore gloves and made sure their prints weren’t on the knife, maybe it was left at the scene. How it was left might have looked like a “message” of sorts and that prompted LE to call in FBI and BAU quickly. Just throwing this thought out there. moo.

If they had the knife, LE would not have gone to stores in Moscow looking for a store that had recently sold a KaBar.

 

[DeDee]

I love cell phone/tower pings smart watch electronic footprints evidence in cases, and find it tells the whole truth.

I know it's on the record about the many late night, consecutive calls to the ex-boyfriend have supposedly been ruled out, but I'm still intrigued about what seems like to me, the urgency of the calls, and if K wanted to do some personal late night chatting with her ex-boyfriend after the bar, I get it.

What I don't get is why is M also calling K's ex-boyfriend in what seems like to me, urgency succession.

I wonder if they had the vibe they were being watched.

MOO

I love electronic trails in investigations. More importantly, Jurors are better able to understand the complex data easier than they could 10 or 20 yrs ago.

In every investigation I've followed, there is always incidental bits of information or clues that remain innocuous and unrelated to the actual event(s). Everything matters until it doesn't. Some sleuths and true crime followers don't believe in coincidences in murder investigations.

Is it a coincidence that M said to K that she told A "everything" while they were at CC then, four students including M&K are murdered within hours?

I agree with your thoughts in that there seemed a matter of urgency and frantic calling, esp. when M also tried calling the same person. The calls could have been made in order to manage damage control but the damage was already done. They just didn't know it yet.

MHOO

 

[Bliss_Perth]

the police have repeatedly stated that the weapon has not been recovered.

There was a slip of the tongue made by Chief James Fry on his Nov 16th press conference...."what we do know" rephrased to to "what we don't know" He also had to check notes about Ethans name i found peculiar if they thought Ethan was the main target he would remember his name....

Maybe I'm looking to deep into things MOO

 

[annpats]

I just wrote a small essay on this, but realized it was way too detailed and boring I'll try to be more succinct!

Endless debate on exactly what makes a great camp/survival knife, so this is all generality. A modern survival knife is typically going to be thick side to side (likely more than 1/4"), relatively heavy, likely somewhere from 4-6 inches in blade length, and of a versatile shape for all kinds of things around a camp from prepping food to making tent pegs to actually splitting wood by "batoning." Very strong and stout. Such a varied range of things a lot of people are going to have multiple knives, but a good example of a classic modern, do-it-all survival knife you'd find from someone into the outdoors is something like an ESEE 6. Then there's a whole field of survival called "bushcraft" that has become popular where you basically create everything you need from the materials available. (We used to just call that camping, but now they call it bushcraft, lol.) Anyway, that segment tends to be VERY into their knives, and Idaho is full of them.

A hunting knife is going to typically more specific to dressing a kill, so will usually have more sweep and belly to the blade, and will be generally thinner side to side allowing it easily slice, slide under the skin, etc. And honestly, a Ka-Bar USMC isn't ideal for either use for several reasons, but it used to be about all we had.

And of course at the end of the day any good sharp knife can be made to do all of the above in the right hands, but knife people can get pretty into their tools, which is why I was really curious early on why they said "Ka-Bar." That suggests someone who just got their first knife to me, or took one from grandpa, but as has been posted several times, they've since clarified that they didn't mean Ka-Bar specifically.

Still too long - hope that was helpful!

Oh, that was perfect, thank you.

I've had a quick look on Google images between the 2 types of knives and I think a hunting knife would be more trustworthy to do the job. Even more so if it had a long blade and was serrated on the edge. Well, that's the style I would choose anyway.....

MOO.

 

[Which_pancake]

Kaylee's room was not all packed up and was set up for sleeping per her father.

Goncalves surmised that they died in Mogen's bedroom on the third floor because "there are photos of Kaylee's room with no blood on the bed."

Source

Wait, he just "surmised" that they were in the same bed? I had assumed he was told by police

 

[Down To Earth]

Has anyone considered that LE has the knife? If the person wore gloves and made sure their prints weren’t on the knife, maybe it was left at the scene. How it was left might have looked like a “message” of sorts and that prompted LE to call in FBI and BAU quickly. Just throwing this thought out there. moo.

As of today 12/22/22 per Moscow PD:
"Currently, no suspects are in custody, and no weapon has been located."

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[Balthazar]

'We will solve this': Moscow police chief is confident the murder case will come to a close

Moscow Police Chief James Fry said they hear all the rumors about the department, but that doesn't stop them from believing the case will be solved.

www.ktvb.com

 

[The Observer]

Wait, he just "surmised" that they were in the same bed? I had assumed he was told by police

I know what you're getting at, I think he is trying to insinuate he's drawn these conclusions himself and that LE isn't giving him extra info. If that makes sense!? I'm going to hazard a guess he does in fact know for sure. All MOO.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

Well that would be odd, given they both had their cell phones on them the entire time but decided to panic/flurry call to clarify what was said 40 minutes after they got home... Why suddenly flurry call so long after the surveillance video conversation?

And what does the bartender have to do with the ex? From my understanding the bartender is a different Adam from her ex's roommate.

I find it striking that they were murdered within an hour or so of the last call.

I don’t think it’s odd at all for their ages and the fact that they were under the influence. I didn’t say anything about the bartender being a roommate bc that hasn’t been established by LE. All my own opinions, but I think that if the girls had been frightened, they were mature enough to either wake the other roommates or dial 911, not fall asleep a few minutes later.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

I know what you're getting at, I think he is trying to insinuate he's drawn these conclusions himself and that LE isn't giving him extra info. If that makes sense!? I'm going to hazard a guess he does in fact know for sure. All MOO.

I believe SG said he surmised

If they had the knife, LE would not have gone to stores in Moscow looking for a store that had recently sold a KaBar.

Certainly they would if there was no useful evidence on it!

 

[10ofRods]

He actually said KA-BAR style:

“They were specifically asking whether or not we carry KA-BAR-style knives, which we do not,” Jutte told the paper. “If we did, we could’ve reviewed surveillance footage. But it wasn’t something I could help them with.”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html

Thank you. Very important (small) detail. Consistent with LE knowing the general type of knife, as opposed to the exact knife - which is normal for that stage of the investigation.

The locks on the doors may have been electronic padlock rather than the kind used in the video that you linked.

And yet the Zillow and other captures of the house from fall of 2022 do not show electronic padlocks (I don't think there are electronic padlocks - but there are electronic locks).

At any rate, I don't see keypads anywhere in that house and would love to know where the evidence is of keypad locks. We know a 2019 resident says there were such locks, then there were the now-obscured Zillow photos, and no evidence whatsoever of current keypad locks. Do they appear in the Sept 1 bodycam video? Or in any social media that's allowed here?

If they had the knife, LE would not have gone to stores in Moscow looking for a

Well, it would be a traditional and quicker way of tying someone to the knife (there's some urgency, I think) rather than waiting for DNA (perhaps questionable) results. It was very early in the investigation.

Well that would be odd, given they both had their cell phones on them the entire time but decided to panic/flurry call to clarify what was said 40 minutes after they got home... Why suddenly flurry call so long after the surveillance video conversation?

And what does the bartender have to do with the ex? From my understanding the bartender is a different Adam from her ex's roommate.

I find it striking that they were murdered within an hour or so of the last call.

It's not my understanding that there are two Adam's. But who knows. IMO.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think this is a very solid theory. If a scenario like this were true, I find it hard to believe the perp would have been partying with E and X and not had his phone with him. And if he had his phone, wouldn't LE have the ping and been able by now to blow holes in whatever alibi they were using? Carrying a knife isn't out of the question, although slightly unlikely just in MOO, going home (or somewhere) to get a knife seems slightly more likely. But unless this perp had planned in advance of meeting up with E and X, I think they would have their phone with them. If there was an altercation (perhaps with E as you suggest) prior to the night of the murders, and the altercation was enough that perp was prompted to murder, it seems unlikely that they'd be invited into the home at any point on the night of the murders.

I think you still have a very sound theory, but there are some particulars I'm having trouble with.

First on the phone/ping. Cell phones ping off the closest tower. If the perp lived within walking distance say next door or across the street, his phone would have pinged off the same tower whether he was at home or at the murder house. GPS on a phone MIGHT help, but then he could just say he was somewhere nearby, such as the frat house across the street, I think. After all E&X were at that frat party until they returned home.

I may not have been clear on the altercation. I did not mean prior to, but night of. As in perp was partying at murder house, got into an altercation with either E or X, as it has been stated there was a lot of drinking going on, so still angry, waits until E&X retires to strike. Even if he had to walk home to get a knife out of his collection, he could have done so in just a few minutes and returned after leaving sliding door open for easy access back in.

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

A Twitter user even began calling the local bar that Mogen and GonCalves were seen at that night, the Corner Club, and asking the owner if he could provide last names for people she believes the bar is "covering" for.

"Love starting the day being called a piece of sh-- because I won't give some crazy lady a last name," a Corner Club tweet said. "She’s 'watched all the TikTok’s and knows everything'. Yo, the tip line is 208.883.7180 if you think you know something. All you’re going to get here is a hard time."

'We will solve this': Moscow police chief is confident the murder case will come to a close

Moscow Police Chief James Fry said they hear all the rumors about the department, but that doesn't stop them from believing the case will be solved.

www.ktvb.com

 

[Which_pancake]

I know what you're getting at, I think he is trying to insinuate he's drawn these conclusions himself and that LE isn't giving him extra info. If that makes sense!? I'm going to hazard a guess he does in fact know for sure. All MOO

Yes that makes sense.

It always amazes me just how much that we think we know about this case is really just speculation, or at least unconfirmed. Going back to the police website, very little is actually "known"

Edit - Oh now that I think about it, it probably means that he was guessing about what room they were in, not guessing that they were together rather than separate.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I know what you're getting at, I think he is trying to insinuate he's drawn these conclusions himself and that LE isn't giving him extra info. If that makes sense!? I'm going to hazard a guess he does in fact know for sure. All MOO.

it was mentioned at the service how close K/M were. I wonder if the perp forced K into M ‘s roon. Just my opinion. Or the perp would’ve had to walk past K’s bedroom door to attack M first but then didn’t they lock their bedroom doors ever? Just my own opinion.

 

[NCTeacher]

I don’t think it’s odd at all for their ages and the fact that they were under the influence. I didn’t say anything about the bartender being a roommate bc that hasn’t been established by LE. All my own opinions, but I think that if the girls had been frightened, they were mature enough to either wake the other roommates or dial 911, not fall asleep a few minutes later.

Well, I'm not too far from their ages and find it totally odd. Being "under the influence" and young leads to impulsive actions, not wait 45 minutes and then deal with a situation... If they were grandmothers, I would find it more plausible that someone would want to think before calling.

With regard to the bartender, why are you jumping to the conclusion that the phone calls were related to that? That's wayyyy more far-fetched then them flurry-calling someone to come check out the "we feel like we're being watched" feeling.

We don't know that they were asleep, just that they were likely in bed. They could've been wide awake. Moreover, just because you are creeped out or fearful doesn't mean you run downstairs and wake up your roommates or call the police. I'm a small petite woman and have been creeped out a many of times in my life and gave in and just went to sleep---I didn't want to be embarrassed by overreacting to things.