ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

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Some have speculated that after K called her ex that many times, she might have said, "Hey, M, my ex is ignoring my calls. Maybe if you (or I) call him from your phone he'll pick up." It's possible.
Some have also speculated that K and M did not make the calls to the exe.

I am uncertain as to the calls are based upon records of sent or unanswered calls, texts, or recorded messages.

I've wondered if K&M overheard and underestimated what was occurring below and called the exe to intercede.

Sp many pieces but LE no doubt has a much better view than public.
 
"The police chief told NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt that officers are in communication with the four families “daily” as he urged them to “trust us”.

“Every family wants a little bit different information, and we have a liaison with each of the families, that we talked to them daily,” he said.

“We pass on as much information as we can to them. As I stated, there’s information that we’ve held back, and we know that frustrates them.

“But we asked them to be patient. We asked them to trust us and that we’re going to continue to move through this until we have a completion in the case.”"


Kaylee Goncalves’ father says he ‘has to’ believe Idaho college murders case will be solved
 
A Twitter user even began calling the local bar that Mogen and GonCalves were seen at that night, the Corner Club, and asking the owner if he could provide last names for people she believes the bar is "covering" for.

"Love starting the day being called a piece of sh-- because I won't give some crazy lady a last name," a Corner Club tweet said. "She’s 'watched all the TikTok’s and knows everything'. Yo, the tip line is 208.883.7180 if you think you know something. All you’re going to get here is a hard time."


Faces come out of the rain.
 
Some have also speculated that K and M did not make the calls to the exe.

I am uncertain as to the calls are based upon records of sent or unanswered calls, texts, or recorded messages.

I've wondered if K&M overheard and underestimated what was occurring below and called the exe to intercede.

Sp many pieces but LE no doubt has a much better view than public.
 
Oh, that was perfect, thank you.

I've had a quick look on Google images between the 2 types of knives and I think a hunting knife would be more trustworthy to do the job. Even more so if it had a long blade and was serrated on the edge. Well, that's the style I would choose anyway.....

MOO.
I totally agree. But I’d add that I don’t think a Ka-Bar is a particularly good survival knife - it’s pretty much made for stabbing stuff. And that’s why the quote from Cathy Mabbutt, “I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," struck me as odd. To me that doesn’t sound like a military knife at all, more like a survival/camping etc tool built to hack and chop, or even not a knife at all, but a hatchet or like a hori hori. They did say “edged weapon, such as a knife” which seems pretty open ended.

“Tear” is obviously just a word and could mean different things to different people, but she’s specifically saying the wounds didn’t seem like stab wounds. Suppose serrations might make a slight difference, but not so much that it would be a striking one IMO/IME.
 
I've been reading about this utility knife that was originally used by farmers, and is now used in many professions, hiking, camping, hunting and fishing.
It has a handle that prevents slipping in muddy and wet conditions including underwater usages.
M00
 
A Twitter user even began calling the local bar that Mogen and GonCalves were seen at that night, the Corner Club, and asking the owner if he could provide last names for people she believes the bar is "covering" for.

"Love starting the day being called a piece of sh-- because I won't give some crazy lady a last name," a Corner Club tweet said. "She’s 'watched all the TikTok’s and knows everything'. Yo, the tip line is 208.883.7180 if you think you know something. All you’re going to get here is a hard time."

Certain live streams around this case are almost encouraging this kind of behaviour and it's so wrong and reckless. They don't care about the damage they could be doing as long as they get money from subscriptions - followers and likes.
 
If they had the knife, LE would not have gone to stores in Moscow looking for a store that had recently sold a K
If they had the knife, LE would not have gone to stores in Moscow looking for a store that had recently sold a KaBar.
If LE went to a store like that then they might just have surveillance video and a good lead for questioning.
 
I just wrote a small essay on this, but realized it was way too detailed and boring :) I'll try to be more succinct!

Endless debate on exactly what makes a great camp/survival knife, so this is all generality. A modern survival knife is typically going to be thick side to side (likely more than 1/4"), relatively heavy, likely somewhere from 4-6 inches in blade length, and of a versatile shape for all kinds of things around a camp from prepping food to making tent pegs to actually splitting wood by "batoning." Very strong and stout, and not particularly pointy. Such a varied range of things a lot of people are going to have multiple knives, but a good example of a classic modern, do-it-all survival knife you'd find from someone into the outdoors is something like an ESEE 6. Then there's a whole field of survival called "bushcraft" that has become popular where you basically create everything you need from the materials available. (We used to just call that camping, but now they call it bushcraft, lol.) Anyway, that segment tends to be VERY into their knives, and Idaho is full of them.

A hunting knife is going to typically more specific to dressing a kill, so will usually have more sweep and belly to the blade, and will be generally thinner side to side allowing it easily slice, slide under the skin, etc. And honestly, a Ka-Bar USMC isn't ideal for either use for several reasons, but it used to be about all we had.

And of course at the end of the day any good sharp knife can be made to do all of the above in the right hands, but knife people can get pretty into their tools, which is why I was really curious early on why they said "Ka-Bar." That suggests someone who just got their first knife to me, or took one from grandpa, but as has been posted several times, they've since clarified that they didn't mean Ka-Bar specifically.

Still too long - hope that was helpful! :)
Nice summary, @LynnWhite! I thought I’d add a few comments of my own and a link to a great write-up on the pros and cons of the “classic” Ka-Bar USMC style knife. (The one most folks think of when they hear the name “Ka-Bar”.)

Forensic examination of the wounds (stabbing, penetrating, and slicing) allows the examiner to generally determine things like blade length, width, thickness, point-style, edge style, spine-style, and probably grind-style too, in many cases.

Whoever used the term “Ka-Bar” to describe the suspected murder weapon probably meant it was a knife with a blade that more than 6” long, about 3/16” thick, with a clip-point that was probably also beveled on the top of the clip and which may or may not have had partial serrations on either the edge or the spine. They were suggesting it was a tactical knife, made primarily for stabbing and penetrating, not so much for slicing/gutting/jointing (a hunting knife), or chopping (a machete or a large survival knife), or a whittling/camp craft knife (which tend to be smaller, like my personal favorite, the Kephart).

Obviously any knife can be used for any purpose with better or worse results. I think Ka-Bar USMC knives, though, are very much fetishized by a certain demographic of knife aficionados. I personally prefer the right knife for the job at hand. And I don’t own one because, IMOO, that knife is designed with one primary purpose — fighting and killing — although it can of course be used for other activities as well.

Everything here is MOO.

 
One of the better news publication articles with some clear and verified info. The Coroner clearly asserts that this was a targeted crime, there was a lot of blood, defensive fighting by one or more or the victims, and the killer had to be REALLY ANGRY to stab four people to death.

 
Does "called" mean dialed a number to speak or could there be texts or oral messages left?

Hope investigators know more.
I have wondered this myself... I would think there would be some texts going on, too. 6 calls in 26 minutes gives enough time for the inevitable "why aren't you answering?" "I need to talk to you" "pick up" messages. At the same time, the calls had to be within a few minutes of each other, which suggests desperation to make contact. I think these calls are related to what happened that night.
 
I don’t think it’s odd at all for their ages and the fact that they were under the influence. I didn’t say anything about the bartender being a roommate bc that hasn’t been established by LE. All my own opinions, but I think that if the girls had been frightened, they were mature enough to either wake the other roommates or dial 911, not fall asleep a few minutes later.

Okay. But what's your evidence for them being relatively intoxicated?

And, college students have different ideas about being "frightened." I am not going to go into personal anecdotes - or data collected from college students, but I was once a college student and almost never did the prudent thing when confronted with scary situations. Dialing 911 is the last thing that occurs to many people.

We don't know that they "fell asleep" but that they were in a position in a room consistent with having gone to bed and trying to "go to sleep."

Bartender is *not* a roommate of 1122 King Road, IMO. But as to fright? Well, people react very differently and even in my youth, we were taught that we women could fend for ourselves and suss out bad actors. Which is generally true - until one encounters a truly bad actor.

I am beginning to think that unless WSers can show that these girls were seriously intoxicated, it would be good not to keep repeating it. One beer over 2 hours might make someone a little tipsy, but I don't see how that plays a role here.

I'd say that 3 am is a witching hour (alcohol or not). Human biorhythms dictate that sleep should occur before that hour, which is why most of us don't stay up all night.

IMO.
 
I just wrote a small essay on this, but realized it was way too detailed and boring :) I'll try to be more succinct!

Endless debate on exactly what makes a great camp/survival knife, so this is all generality. A modern survival knife is typically going to be thick side to side (likely more than 1/4"), relatively heavy, likely somewhere from 4-6 inches in blade length, and of a versatile shape for all kinds of things around a camp from prepping food to making tent pegs to actually splitting wood by "batoning." Very strong and stout, and not particularly pointy. Such a varied range of things a lot of people are going to have multiple knives, but a good example of a classic modern, do-it-all survival knife you'd find from someone into the outdoors is something like an ESEE 6. Then there's a whole field of survival called "bushcraft" that has become popular where you basically create everything you need from the materials available. (We used to just call that camping, but now they call it bushcraft, lol.) Anyway, that segment tends to be VERY into their knives, and Idaho is full of them.

A hunting knife is going to typically more specific to dressing a kill, so will usually have more sweep and belly to the blade, and will be generally thinner side to side allowing it easily slice, slide under the skin, etc. And honestly, a Ka-Bar USMC isn't ideal for either use for several reasons, but it used to be about all we had.

And of course at the end of the day any good sharp knife can be made to do all of the above in the right hands, but knife people can get pretty into their tools, which is why I was really curious early on why they said "Ka-Bar." That suggests someone who just got their first knife to me, or took one from grandpa, but as has been posted several times, they've since clarified that they didn't mean Ka-Bar specifically.

Still too long - hope that was helpful! :)
This is a beautifully written post. As a native, I learned of the art & spirit of a knife at an early age. I have custom bone, Buck, and SOG brand knives which are like family to me (I’ve had them so long). They work as multi-functional hardware, and have saved me on more than one occasion. Black Bear come through my yard and next to my home daily, (& big cats lounge at the top of my yard and log fencing). I have other weapons, but never on me at all times. The knives though…rarely leave my side.
 
ashhouston said:
its a stranger homicide or they'd have someone. No way after 4 people get slaughtered and so much public attention they're going to wait to arrest. im leaning to stranger only because the two in the basement didnt get touched so the murder probably didnt know that they were down there probably a creepy neighbor or someone in the neighborhood that they didnt know




I disagree. In the Rhoden massacre 04-21-2016 it was 8 victims of one family in 4 different houses. Cited as the biggest murder case in Ohio. Worldwide coverage. It took two and a half years to make an arrest. When they finally did make an arrest it was the ex boyfriend of one of the victims and his family. He pled guilty as did his mother. His brothers trial just ended in a guilty verdict 6 1/2 years after the murders with his fathers trial coming up early 2023, putting it at almost 7 years after the murders occurred.

So don't get blinded by the headlights. I said then about that case and will say now about this one, one of the victims was connected to the evil that occurred in that house. When the arrest is made it will be someone closely connected to one or more of the victims.

I believe it was someone who returned home with E&X and was partying with E&X when K&M returned home and was intended to crash on the couch for the night. Due to some altercation earlier, perhaps with E they waited until they were all asleep. K&M were killed because they saw/talked to him after they returned home and were witnesses. The 1st floor girls were already asleep so therefore were not witnesses so did not need to be killed.

Someone questioned why a friend would be partying with a hunting knife in his possession, but may I point out there are many young people who hunt in Idaho and carry hunting knives on their person. There are also many others who have extensive knife collections. It is entirely possible the perpetrator went home to get one of those knives he collected.

MY OPINION ONLY
JMO
If the person was partying with E&X, their DNA would have to be there in some form. But this would be complicated by the fact that this house was a social hub...

This leads me to another tangent: how long would it take to process the kitchen or the living room? Would LE collect every piece of DNA they could?
 
We've discussed this photo endlessly so I don't guess one more time will hurt anything. ;) Kaylee's bed seen in photo.

1671759179638.png
Views inside the home in Moscow, Idaho shows an upstairs bedroom light on Monday, November 14, 2022 Four University of Idaho students were killed over the weekend in an apparent quadruple homicide in this home. The victims are Ethan Chapin, 20, of Conway, Washington; Madison Mogen, 21, of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho; Xana Kernodle, 20, of Avondale, Idaho; and Kaylee GonCalves, 21, of Rathdrum, Idaho. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)
 
I totally agree. But I’d add that I don’t think a Ka-Bar is a particularly good survival knife - it’s pretty much made for stabbing stuff. And that’s why the quote from Cathy Mabbutt, “I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab," struck me as odd. To me that doesn’t sound like a military knife at all, more like a survival/camping etc tool built to hack and chop, or even not a knife at all, but a hatchet or like a hori hori. They did say “edged weapon, such as a knife” which seems pretty open ended.

“Tear” is obviously just a word and could mean different things to different people, but she’s specifically saying the wounds didn’t seem like stab wounds. Suppose serrations might make a slight difference, but not so much that it would be a striking one IMO/IME.
IMHO If the edge of the weapon wasn’t sharp (dull blade) it might pull and drag the skin to produce “tears” rather than cut cleanly through?
 
I have wondered this myself... I would think there would be some texts going on, too. 6 calls in 26 minutes gives enough time for the inevitable "why aren't you answering?" "I need to talk to you" "pick up" messages. At the same time, the calls had to be within a few minutes of each other, which suggests desperation to make contact. I think these calls are related to what happened that night.
If K and M were creeped out by something, heard a noise, or saw someone when they came home that night and did not feel safe, wouldn't they talk to X and E before calling K‘s ex.
If they were desperate and did not get a reaction from J, certainly they would call or text or go downstairs and talk to X and E
I think so

JMO
 
Okay. But what's your evidence for them being relatively intoxicated?

And, college students have different ideas about being "frightened." I am not going to go into personal anecdotes - or data collected from college students, but I was once a college student and almost never did the prudent thing when confronted with scary situations. Dialing 911 is the last thing that occurs to many people.

We don't know that they "fell asleep" but that they were in a position in a room consistent with having gone to bed and trying to "go to sleep."

Bartender is *not* a roommate of 1122 King Road, IMO. But as to fright? Well, people react very differently and even in my youth, we were taught that we women could fend for ourselves and suss out bad actors. Which is generally true - until one encounters a truly bad actor.

I am beginning to think that unless WSers can show that these girls were seriously intoxicated, it would be good not to keep repeating it. One beer over 2 hours might make someone a little tipsy, but I don't see how that plays a role here.

I'd say that 3 am is a witching hour (alcohol or not). Human biorhythms dictate that sleep should occur before that hour, which is why most of us don't stay up all night.

IMO.
Okay. But what's your evidence for them being relatively intoxicated?

And, college students have different ideas about being "frightened." I am not going to go into personal anecdotes - or data collected from college students, but I was once a college student and almost never did the prudent thing when confronted with scary situations. Dialing 911 is the last thing that occurs to many people.

We don't know that they "fell asleep" but that they were in a position in a room consistent with having gone to bed and trying to "go to sleep."

Bartender is *not* a roommate of 1122 King Road, IMO. But as to fright? Well, people react very differently and even in my youth, we were taught that we women could fend for ourselves and suss out bad actors. Which is generally true - until one encounters a truly bad actor.

I am beginning to think that unless WSers can show that these girls were seriously intoxicated, it would be good not to keep repeating it. One beer over 2 hours might make someone a little tipsy, but I don't see how that plays a role here.

I'd say that 3 am is a witching hour (alcohol or not). Human biorhythms dictate that sleep should occur before that hour, which is why most of us don't stay up all night.

IMO.
I said, “under the influence.” There are plenty of MSM sources out there indicating such. Link to one below.


In reference to not calling 911, I’m not certain you’re comparing apples to apples. Being spooked is one thing, having someone barge into your bedroom wielding a knife is quite another.

Anyhow, retiring for the night. It’s late where I am.
 
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