ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

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SNIPPED BY ME FOR BREVITY:

I think the "hate" theory is a good one, since this is technically a mass murder. I think it was the Mayor of Moscow who said it was a "Crime of Passion" but that was within 48 hours of the murders. That has not been said since, so, big grain of salt.
I really wish the mayor wouldn't have used the words "crime of passion" because the media just ran with it. He was somewhat misquoted since he said that a "crime of passion" was only one of the possibilities.

Here's a snip from a 11/14/22 Fox News article (Idaho quadruple student homicide: 'Crime of passion,' 'burglary gone wrong' among possible motives, mayor says):

1671819963353.png
 
This obviously wouldn't apply to a hired gun (!), but I've been thinking the reason for using the knife could have been as simple as the perp never having shot a gun before. I know guns are everywhere in the US, but there's probably still quite a few people who know nothing about loading and using a gun.
They arrived and left without being caught at the moment. This is strong motivation. They seem to know the type of movement with there body they needed to make to do what they accomplished. It seems they would have prior experience in the actions. Training, role playing, or defensive exercises in the use of a knife for survival, etc. They knew what they could accomplish with the weapon they had and they knew how to handle attempts made to resist their movement. They were aware how to manage their body and actions in the dark
 
This is absolutely what I think too.
The person who had a grudge or 'beef' with these students didn't do the killing himself. They got someone in to do the job. Someone who specialises in that kind of thing, and who was capable of doing it without being caught.
I would love to know how many typical college students have taken out hits OR had hits taken out on them... it can't be too large a number. At that stage of life there's less to be raging mad about. No one's career is being derailed. No one's family or marriage is being threatened. I can't wrap my head around the hit job theory unless it was revenge against one of the students' family members as opposed to the students themselves.
 
After weeks of reading and listening to all thoughts and opinions, I am left with the conclusion that we just do not have enough information to begin to solve this. After all this time, what we don't know far outweighs what we do. I have to hope that LE has the info to find justice for four young people and the friends and families that love them.

We still do not even know where the four were found, what they did all night before they got home or who made the 911 call.

One thing that I hear discussed us where E and X were during part of the evening. It is my understanding that E had a room at the fraternity. Could it be as simple as that they were hanging out in there? Also, isn't his brother a member of that fraternity? I can not imagine a scenario where there is some murder plot amongst members and the brother is not aware of anything going on.

I have twin grandchildren who are college freshmen. I asked them about some of the details around locking doors, etc. One if them is in an off campus apartment that is much smaller that the house in question. They have bedroom door locks. My grandson says he locks his door when he sleeps mostly because he sleeps in his underwear and has doesn't want people walking in. His apartment is kind of a party place and he doesn't always know all of the people present.

His room is very close to the livingroom where kids hang out. If he wants to go to bed, he turns on a fan and says it drowns out most of the noise. He said if he put in earbuds, he would not hear any amount of noise. Short of gunshots, I am thinking it is not suspicious that downstairs roommates could have slept through the night. As a teenager, I slept many a weekend until noon!

I lost a daughter to cancer, not murder. She died surrounded by a caring medical team and family who loved her, and still her death was unbearable. I can not imagine the heartache of a parent whose child died in pain, in fear, in this horrible manner. Finding this killer will not even begin to lessen that heartache, but hopefully it will be a step towards finding peace for those families.
 
I would love to know how many typical college students have taken out hits OR had hits takenout on them... it can't be too large a number. At that stage of life there's less to be raging mad about. No one's career is being derailed. No one's family or marriage is being threatened. I can't wrap my head around the hit job theory unless it was revenge against one of the students' family members as opposed to the students themselves.
Oh yes, I do agree.

The killing however, does point to someone who knew what they were doing.

The motive for the killings is the most puzzling thing, there will be plenty we do not know yet regarding their personal lives.

MOO.
 
If that video of these girls just having fun makes me smile and feel the loss too.
Same. I got tears in my eyes watching it this morning. My heart aches for surviving friends and families. Sometimes I wonder what I would want the general public (like us here on WS) to do if one of the victims were my daughter. I think even before we even get into anything to do with sleuthing, I would want people to see the photos and videos of my daughter alive and well, to really see her, to connect and know what a beautiful soul the whole world has lost.

It's so heartbreaking to know that if and when legal justice is served, the toothpaste can never be put back in the tube. I would encourage everyone who discusses this tragedy in any open forum to use utmost consideration and respect. I think we do a good job here on WS (mods THANK YOU!) but it's never a bad idea to sound a reminder that we are examining a tragedy that's wake certainly has traumatized enough already.
 
After catching up this morning, I'm struggling with how some posters use the rage killing. Some of us seem to mean that something happened earlier in the evening and it enraged this person so much they stalked them back home, waited an extended period of time until the house quieted down, then entered intending to to kill everyone in the house.

To me that's cold and calculating. Someone in a true rage couldn't possibly remain inactive for that long. Legally, a crime of passion is one that occurs during the "heat of passion" or as a fairly immediate response to a provocation. Just like road rage is an immediate reaction to something that happens to you on the road. I also think someone in a rage would have a hard time sustaining that rage during the time required to kill 4 people on two different levels of the house. That took a lot of physical work and IMO would have burned through the rage.

This person isn't a serial killer, so far as we know, because being a serial killer means you have killed on multiple occasions, and we have no evidence of that thus far. A spree killer means the murderer killed multiple people at more than one location. No current evidence of this either.

It does fits the legal definition of a mass murder, which is killing 4 or more people in the same location during a single period of time. Mass murderer is a very jarring term, but it does seem to be correct.

I did some reading this morning and found that mass murderers often operate off hatred rather than rage. Hatred against a group that mistreated them, that they disapprove of in general, or a group that excluded them. Hitler hated Jews. The Walmart manager hated his employees. Dylan Roof hated black people. There are other motivations, for sure, but they all seemed to be deeply rooted motivations that allowed for planning rather than impulsive actions. I watched an American Monster episode where a woman left her husband and weeks later he killed her mother and grandparents, and shot her brother 12 times. His motivation was to punish her for leaving him. He didn't shoot her. He wanted her to suffer the loss of everyone she loved.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me that the killer came to kill one and the others were any sort of collateral damage. Why not just choose a different time and place rather than risk one person getting away and raising the alarm? I agree there had to be an inciting event, but I don't think this was a crime of passion. To me, at least so far, it seems more like other mass murders, where the killer has an issue with the group as a whole.

Thanks for reading. :)
I think the hate vs. rage distinction is significant and potentially relevant to this case -- thanks for sharing!
 
Interesting change in the template for the Daily MPD update. I have been checking daily for any editorial changes and now it's happened. Here is 12-20:


It's much shorter than any previous day's update and language that was in most of the previous updates is gone. Here's 12-19 as an example:



Yes it looks like a significant change.
Does it appear that this change is evidence PD is closer to an arrest? I don’t think so.
It looks to me like PD has no intention of letting the public lead the investigation toward all the ‘wild good chases’ they want to be followed, and then expect PD to share what is known.
The rumor section is gone. Currently the span of rumors from ridiculous to plausible are vast. Which lead they are tracking and what they find out is not our business, and may be harmful to the investigation to share.
Looks to me like a PD that doesn’t handle murders very often is learning.
Not a bad thing at all

JMO
 
First, you got the quotes backwards.
Second, J is currently cleared by LE.
You’re correct. My mistake. I don’t know how to edit it. I understand J is cleared. I wasn’t implying J did it. Just putting some things out there that don’t sit well with me. I also think this case is more simple than we’re making it. I think law enforcement has a picture of what happened and an idea of who was involved. Obviously, I know nothing more than anybody else.
Just my opinions and thoughts…
 
I really wish the mayor wouldn't have used the words "crime of passion" because the media just ran with it. He was somewhat misquoted since he said that a "crime of passion" was only one of the possibilities.

Here's a snip from a 11/14/22 Fox News article (Idaho quadruple student homicide: 'Crime of passion,' 'burglary gone wrong' among possible motives, mayor says):

View attachment 389503

Yeah, I really wish he hadn't said that OR mentioned burglary/robbery at that juncture.

This was during the phase where other headlines were screaming about the "sloppy" crime scene and how messy it was and how much "evidence" there was. That led the public to believe an arrest was imminent. Indeed, all of that taken together was designed to make the public think an arrest could occur any time.

Not a peep since then (from LE) about a crime of passion or, especially not a burglary.
 
Yes it looks like a significant change.
Does it appear that this change is evidence PD is closer to an arrest? I don’t think so.
It looks to me like PD has no intention of letting the public lead the investigation toward all the ‘wild good chases’ they want to be followed, and then expect PD to share what is known.
The rumor section is gone. Currently the span of rumors from ridiculous to plausible are vast. Which lead they are tracking and what they find out is not our business, and may be harmful to the investigation to share.
Looks to me like a PD that doesn’t handle murders very often is learning.
Not a bad thing at all

JMO

I don't think it means they're closer to an arrest, and the recent addition of the last person on the "not believed to be involved" list may mean that they really believe they have strong alibis for all of those people (despite what Mr and Mrs G have been saying publicly).

I also agree that they are learning, and finding their own style. I can't even imagine the pressure the PD must feel right now.
 
Are we allowed to link to a News Nation, Dan Abrams Live show, B guy interview with Chief Fry? I was unsure and don't want to break the rules. Interview on 12-22 and I will link if allowed (if I can figure that out too). Thank you in advance.
 
IMO the car is likely in a garage or under a tarp.

Also Zillow updated their privacy policy today. It's known that big tech routinely updates privacy policies. IMO maybe Zillow made a few policy changes in this update because photos of the inside of 1122 King Road house were publicly available information prior to the murders. IMO

Zillow privacy policy:
Privacy Policy
 
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After catching up this morning, I'm struggling with how some posters use the rage killing. Some of us seem to mean that something happened earlier in the evening and it enraged this person so much they stalked them back home, waited an extended period of time until the house quieted down, then entered intending to to kill everyone in the house.

To me that's cold and calculating. Someone in a true rage couldn't possibly remain inactive for that long. Legally, a crime of passion is one that occurs during the "heat of passion" or as a fairly immediate response to a provocation. Just like road rage is an immediate reaction to something that happens to you on the road. I also think someone in a rage would have a hard time sustaining that rage during the time required to kill 4 people on two different levels of the house. That took a lot of physical work and IMO would have burned through the rage…

It does fits the legal definition of a mass murder, which is killing 4 or more people in the same location during a single period of time. Mass murderer is a very jarring term, but it does seem to be correct.

I did some reading this morning and found that mass murderers often operate off hatred rather than rage. Hatred against a group that mistreated them, that they disapprove of in general, or a group that excluded them. Hitler hated Jews. The Walmart manager hated his employees. Dylan Roof hated black people. There are other motivations, for sure, but they all seemed to be deeply rooted motivations that allowed for planning rather than impulsive actions. I watched an American Monster episode where a woman left her husband and weeks later he killed her mother and grandparents, and shot her brother 12 times. His motivation was to punish her for leaving him. He didn't shoot her. He wanted her to suffer the loss of everyone she loved.

Yes I agree, well said! This is exactly what I think too.
It makes sense that the word rage implies crime of passion, but rage is of the moment.
This wasn’t an emotion of the moment, or a reaction, it was long held hatred and planning.
So who hates And what do they hate?
They could hate what they
- want but don’t know how to get- envy, jealousy
- misunderstand or fear due to ignorance, culture, religion- bigotry
- see in themselves that is flawed, shameful- projection
- cannot defend against that makes them feel vulnerable- revenge
- What else?

JMO
 

EXCLUSIVE: An unidentified man retrieved Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover Thursday afternoon from a Moscow city storage lot.

The downcast-looking man helped a pair of Moscow police officers tinker under the hood as they started the engine of the 2016 Range Rover Evoque Kaylee excitedly purchased days before her slaying.

As officers scraped ice from the windshield and brushed away snow, the sullen man, whom Fox News Digital wasn't immediately able to identify, paced nearby in the frigid air.

1671821849147.png


(video at link)
 
I would love to know how many typical college students have taken out hits OR had hits taken out on them... it can't be too large a number. At that stage of life there's less to be raging mad about. No one's career is being derailed. No one's family or marriage is being threatened. I can't wrap my head around the hit job theory unless it was revenge against one of the students' family members as opposed to the students themselves.
No hit man did this. Too much risk. It would have been a double-tap with a silencer not a physical assault risking hand to hand combat and/or the victim being armed. Nope. Jmoo
 
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